u/-GreyFox

The last movie you watched

The last movie you watched

Please share with me the title of the last movie you watched.

Of course, this is research for a post I might or might not present in the near future. If you don't want to go public, you can always send me a private message.

As I always say, thanks for sharing 😊

u/-GreyFox — 11 days ago

But Neil Neil said: "There is no Good nor Evil, it's all a matter of perspective" - ​​Troy the Blasphemer 🤣

u/-GreyFox — 2 months ago

Do you think the first two questions I asked are related to Anna's letter?

If you do not know what question I am talking about, feel free to check my profile

u/-GreyFox — 2 months ago

Would Riley want Ellie to sacrifice herself? Would Riley agree to this? What is Riley trying to convey with her last words?

u/-GreyFox — 2 months ago

Let's say Ellie gives you consent.: Does that change anything? Does this make it correct? Is it okay to kill her?

u/-GreyFox — 2 months ago

The Last of Us Part II Major Problems (#3)

I don't know if I've said this before, but the more works you read by the same author, the more you understand their vision of the world, their philosophy, and who they are.

Sadly, Neil is quite the weasel, so you can't listen to him in interviews and believe everything he's saying, but if you understand the context, you can read the subtext, right?

But there's something no writer can do, not even me when I write a post, and certainly not Neil: he can't hide from his work. Once the work is presented, Neil is exposed as a "philosopher," as a person, and as an "author." He is laid bare for the scrutiny of anyone with a sufficient understanding of the craft.

A Second Chance at Sarah

Thanks to Gabriel Betancourt's interview, I discovered that a young Neil wrote a graphic novel called "A Second Chance at Sarah". And of course, I was simply super excited to read Neil's work. My expectations were quite low, which I admit helped a lot in motivating me to finish reading it. It's bad, no doubt about it. And I love these kinds of stories almost as much as I love zombie stories, no matter how bad they are.

That way you can't offer a thorough critique because these stories don't usually have depth. The purpose leans more towards entertainment than education. But what really caught my attention were the similarities to Part 2.

A Second Chance at Sarah vs The Last of Us: Part II

As I explained in my previous presentation, Neil introduces characters in a way that makes them relevant to the story, only to later discard them. This is a classic problem for a young writer: introducing many characters and then not knowing what to do with them. There are numerous examples in Part 2: Leah, Jordan, Nick, Whitney, Manny's father, Isaac, etc.

Cheap subversion of expectations

But the most important part is the ending, which is also defined by a decision and a sudden change of heart from one of its protagonists.

After Johnny's sacrifice, and believing his story about time travel, Sarah tells him that her sister's life is more important than the life of a future child she doesn't yet know, or even her own. Determined, she heads to the hospital only to reappear moments later, saying she changed her mind after having a vision of her future baby.

When you put the whole story together, it doesn't make sense. In the case of "A Second Chance at Sarah," everything points to the fact that you can't defeat the demon inhabiting the talisman, but Sarah, seemingly out of nowhere, changes her mind, saving the day. The whole story is heading towards a dark ending, the one Neil likes as we know, but it seems Neil changes his mind at the last minute for some reason. If you ask me, it must be his editor's advice, but this is just a hunch.

Gabriel Betancourt

Gabriel was an artist in charge of lighting during the development of The Last of Us (2013), he talks about other works and studios he worked in, not just Naughty Dog. And he also worked for a few months on Part 2 before leaving.

There are many things to take away, but I tried to share the most important/striking ones. You see, you can tell an artist to do their best work, and they will. But what happens if, instead, you show them the story they're working on, and what happens if you explain what you're trying to highlight? Now the artist's work has a focus. And every effort, every decision they make will be in service of your story.

That's the director's job, right? He stands before the “orchestra” and guides all the “instruments” toward the goal. These instruments includes the writer, of course.

Gabriel's first day at work

Then Gabriel tells us how, on their first day of work, Bruce and Neil prepared a 1 hour presentation for the entire team. By the end of the presentation, everyone knew what the story was about. Bruce and Neil were pitching a story to the team.

I shared some videos a while ago where Bruce explained that concept artists shouldn't just draw, but also play the game during development. So this point isn’t new to me, but the idea of ​​Bruce and Neil explaining the story to the team it is; and I will love to put my hands on that presentation.

Gabriel raising his concerns about the plot of Part 2 with Neil

And it is this understanding, even if incomplete, that led him to express his doubts to Neil about the direction of Part 2. Because every story, upon its conclusion, has an implicit, tacit, organic sequel. And Neil's response, to shake off a pointed question posed by Gabriel (I suppose), is to invent the idea of ​​a village/community full of immune people.

The Tacit Sequel / Ellie's immunity

I don't know what movies you've been spending your time on, so I'm betting on a classic: Rocky and Rocky II, knowing that "I Play Rocky" will soon be released in theaters.

Rocky's story begins with his gradual process of convincing himself that he's worthless. To such an extent that when opportunity knocks, he refuses it. He eventually accepts the opportunity. The deal he's set for himself is to last 15 rounds with the world champion. If he manages it, he'll prove to everyone, including himself, that he's worth something. Rocky endures all 15 rounds but loses the fight.

Now, what is the “tacit”/organic sequel to this story? Should it be someone who kills his girlfriend Adrian, and a Rocky going out for revenge?

This is the problem that Gabriel points out to Neil.

Balance

Gabriel previously discusses the appropriate team size for achieving a good result. He talks about the problems that lead to a game's failure.

In Part 2, Gabriel explains that the team was so large that the contribution they relied on in the first story was no longer possible, disrupting the balance between darkness (Neil) and light, between bitterness and sweetness.

Now you don't need Gabriel to understand that Neil likes darkness, the visceral; you just need to play Part II, or read any of Neil's works. But it does help you understand Neil's flaws and weaknesses, which are intrinsically present in all his works, or that Neil originally wanted to kill Elena in Uncharted 2, which shows that Neil has trouble understanding the tone (or genre) of the story being told.

Robert McKee

This is truly striking when Gabriel explains that Neil and Bruce attended Robert McKee's seminars, seminars in which McKee emphasizes the need for positive and negative energy in every beat for your story to come alive. Bruce and Neil attended the same seminar and left with different understandings.

This doesn't surprise me, as I've encountered a similar case in this sub where a user quoted McKee without understanding the text or the exception being referenced.

Benson Russell

From there we jump to Benson Russell, who was in charge of combat against the infected during the development of The Last of Us (2013). And I don't know how familiar you are with the technical aspects of video game development, but the PlayStation 5 has 16 GB of RAM, and they were only working with just 256 MB on the PlayStation 3. "RAM was our most precious resource," someone says in some of the interviews in the "Grounded" video. It was really scarce and made working difficult. The Last of Us (2013) is an incredible programming achievement for its time.

Take pride in your craft

So when all the work was scrapped to present Part I as "The Definitive Way to Play The Last of Us," I can understand Mr. Benson's anger with Neil. At the very least, you should include the original work with this pack, because without it, there would be no "Part I," or even "Part II."

Working with Neil

Listening to Bensons speak makes it clear that there was a lot of friction between him and Neil. Of course, we all know that Neil is capable of insulting even his fans if the reviews of his work are negative, right? So you quickly get an idea of ​​the atmosphere Benson (and Bruce) was working in if it came to opposing Neil.

We all have a co-worker we don't get along with, but this doesn't make us/them bad people, as Russell explains, it's just that when it comes to Neil it's inevitable to remember that phrase: "Always assume the worst and you'll be right".

A Great Director

Russell talks about many things, but he places great emphasis on "North Star." A director who knows the objective prevents the entire team from wandering aimlessly. He attributes delays in video game releases to programming without a clear direction, working for several months on one aspect of the game only to have it discarded and starting over on something completely different simply because an executive said it wasn't a good idea.

Story Comes First

This is the difference he noticed at Naughty Dog, where it was made clear to Russell from the beginning that the story comes first. Meanwhile, other studios would explore some kind of gameplay mechanic that seemed interesting, only to discard it after working on it for several months.

Quentin Cobb Job

Quentin Cobb was brought in to collaborate on The Last of Us (2013), having previously worked on Uncharted 3, to help with item placement in all scenarios. The system was failing, and Bruce asked for help. Quentin decided that the best way to implement the items was to place them one by one throughout each of the scenarios. What a painstaking job.

Everything you put on screen is saying something to the audience

This job gave him the opportunity to work very closely with Bruce, where he learned that Bruce not only proposes scenarios but also uses them to tell a story. And I don't know where Bruce grasped this idea, but McKee's seminars emphasize this aspect of screenplay. Everything you put on screen is saying something to the audience.

Character Development - Riley

From there we go to listen to Heather Cerlan, where she tells us how her working relationship with Neil began, where a curious Neil did his research for Left Behind, addressing the topic "Growing up as a closeted queer kid", in Heather’s words. Oh, shoot, I forgot to share the clip. Don’t worry, it’s quite short.

Author, Authority, and Authenticity

And I completely forgot about sharing that clip because what really excited me in this interview was Heather pointing out the lack of authenticity in Neil's story during the dance scenes and in Ellie's relationship with Dina.

To be an author, you must possess a vast knowledge of the world you've created. This knowledge will give you authority over your work, but you can't have authority if you don't demonstrate authenticity.

Lack of Authenticity

This is one of the biggest problems with The Last of Us: Part II, not just in this scene, not only as a "sequel" but also as a "story"—everything is overly contrived and convenient for the plot. Everything feels forced, and nothing is earned.

I hope you didn't miss the interviews. You can check them out on my profile.

reddit.com
u/-GreyFox — 3 months ago

Heather Cerlan on Authenticity, working with Neil, and the scene with Dina, Ellie, and Seth

u/-GreyFox — 3 months ago

The Last of Us Part II Major Problems (#2)

We've covered all sorts of writing-related issues, what constitutes bad writing, and why it's considered bad writing. We've seen how writers unconsciously fall into bad writing, and how they need to take time to step back and correct it; new premises, new ideas, new "What ifs," genres, structure, theme, and many other aspects, concluding with subtext in the last post.

Subtext

The last aspect we looked at was subtext, exemplified by the first story and the “sequel”, but there was one point that nobody raised and I omitted to present: Neil’s “subtext”.

Neil’s Subtext

Once again, we jump to that beautiful 2013 video when Neil in Toronto decides to open his writer's heart to simp for Anit… telling us the subtext that he painstakingly and diligently wrote for Ellie.

Parental Figures

>Neil: So Ellie starts out clinging to these parental figures. Thinking she needs someone much stronger than her in order to survive in this world. It starts out with Marlene and pretty quickly it shifts to Joel as they golf on this journey. And she looks up to Joel she wants to be like him she wants to win his respect. And it's this, this kind of theme that we emphasize throughout the entire story.

Several questions immediately come to mind, right? If I'm Ellie and my strongest goal is to become strong enough to survive in this world, what better option than to find a father figure or role model within the Fedra facilities? This school is offering me everything I need. In this case, Ellie wouldn't risk her position at Fedra, not even for Riley. That's what Abby did, right? She wouldn't miss any training, not even for Owen.

But Ellie's true motivation stems from her immunity and Riley's death. After being bitten and surviving, Ellie's only option was to go to Marlene. Once surrounded by this terrorist group, Ellie's concern is focused on not ruining the opportunity with some foolish mistake.

The fight with Joel begins because he undeniably needs help, even if it means entrusting his back to an inexperienced girl, and Ellie understands that they will both die if she can't convince Joel to give her a weapon. It's not about winning Joel's respect, it's about common sense.

The subtext Neil is trying to convey simply isn't there. So, what is Neil trying to do? We'll find out little by little.

Ellie’s Greatest Fear

>38:28 An example of it is like when Ellie's talking to Sam, she talks about how her greatest fear, more than anything, is ending up alone.

Once again, Neil misses the subtext. This isn't Ellie revealing her greatest fear, but rather Ellie understanding that Sam is upset, Ellie trying to find the words Sam wants to hear so he can open up and reveal the real problem.

Ellie is Capable

>38:36 and yet as a story develops we see that she's quite capable. In fact she's been capable this whole time. And many times like she stands up to Joel. And forces him to respect her as an equal, and at times even more than that, right? When Joel is, again… we get to this moment that he's incapacitated and as a player you become Ellie, and you just get to see how strong she is and how she tend to Joel and, eventually kind of brings him back to life.

If you haven't noticed yet, Neil is starting to show his true intentions in this presentation. Bringing Joel back to life to portray him in what is clearly a heroic moment must fight against the "damsel in distress who must be rescued by a man" trope. But calling Ellie "capable" when she barely survived thanks to sheer luck is a huge stretch. Neil is starting to show his true colors.

David

>39:05 and it's as Ellie that you kind of confront the worst of mankind, and you fight a character that does horrible things not for survival but for enjoyment. It's the only boss fight in the game, and this whole sequence is structured purposefully in such a way so that you think, in the last moment, Joel's going to burst in through that door and save Ellie, but in fact Ellie saves herself in kind of a brutal way, and then we kind of pay respect to that sequence and show that it has a toll and just because we're creating strong characters doesn't mean they can't have moments of weakness, that they can't be vulnerable.

This is a lot. Let's break it down into four parts.

1. Neither Heroes nor Villains.

First, we have Neil in the interview with Kibrick explaining that he wrote The Last of Us as a story about perspectives, where there are no good guys and bad guys, no heroes or villains, describing David as a person of dubious morals, but not evil. And that if you were in David's shoes, you would be able to see Joel as evil.

And here we find Neil explaining that David is the worst of humanity, that David doesn't do horrible things to survive, but for enjoyment.

Now you should be very clear that Neil is lying for his own benefit. In this case, Neil needs David to be evil to enhance Ellie's image as a strong female character.

2. Strong Female Characters

Neil wears different masks depending on the moment and the objective he's pursuing. Neil lies. He'll perform the necessary mental gymnastics to give a new purpose or meaning to the previously created work, attempting to fit it within the parameters by which he believes the work is being measured; in this case, Strong Female Characters.

Strong Female Characters was at that time, and continues to be, one of the top priorities and most important topics in the entertainment world, leading to poor writing, since a character who has no flaws is considered bad writing or a "Mary Sue." For example: Star Wars: "The Force Awakens"

3. The Heroic Image

Although devaluing the hero image is currently taking protagonism in storytelling, it was always part of the original objective, which is why Joel is shown torturing cannibals and why he doesn't rescue Ellie at the last minute. For example: Joker and Joker: Folie à Deux

4. Weaknesses

Neil is also quick to point out that strong female characters can show weakness, as Ellie had to pay the price for killing David. It wouldn't be organic otherwise, but he knows that a female character showing weakness isn't/wasn't acceptable.

The Giraffe

>39:35 um and at this moment Joel does his best to cheer Ellie up to bring her out of this dark place that she went to in her mind. And he opens up to her in ways that he's never opened up to anyone since the death of his daughter, but again, it's Ellie who lifts her own Spirits when she finds kind of the beauty in this herd of giraffes

This part is correct; Ellie has fallen into a dark place because she's realized she's been risking her life and Joel's to save the lives of those who tried to kill them from Boston to Salt Lake City. Ellie has lost the innocence that had guided her until now, and Joel knows it. Seeing a son or daughter disheartened, a child who has lost the spirit that defined her, is very painful for a parent who loves their child. This is the subtext.

However, Neil tries to emphasize how Ellie saves herself to further promote this idea of ​​a strong female character.

The Lie

>40:09 and we come to that ending and that lie. And that “okay”. And what does that okay mean. Well, it's definitely not a complicit: “yeah. I'll go along with you”. In fact, it's the opposite. It's Ellie for the first time waking up and realizing that she can't rely on him anymore, that while she loves him for what he's done for her, she hates him for robbing her of that choice. She knows that she has to leave him, she has to make her own decisions and her own mistakes. That's her Arc going to the end of the line, that the thing she wanted most in life is this father figure, but to become truly independent she has to give that up. And that's kind of like those two arcs are the core truth for me in this story.

And this is Neil's "subtext."

The subtext of a father worried that his daughter will fall back into the dark side, upon discovering that the worst of humanity wasn't David, but The Fireflies. The precarious state of the hospital and operating room, the explanation of a doctor who can't find the cause of the immunity, this group that sentenced them to death and didn't bother to ask her—all of that must be ignored. And you must also ignore that Ellie never had a choice that could be taken from her; The Fireflies were going to kill her with or without her consent.

The Purpose in Toronto

By opening this part of the presentation with Anita, Neil makes his purpose clear. Neil tries to sell the idea that "The Last of Us wasn't written like all those previous stories where the woman needs the man's help," Neil implies. And in turn, Neil tries to change what was written to make it fit the tropes that Anita is familiar with.

There's some truth to this story, and that is that we really do meet strong female characters like Tess and Marlene who contrast with characters like Ellie and Maria, offereing balance. The idea of ​​strong female characters was carefully implemented. Or the idea that Joel doesn't arrive in time to save Ellie, is just that it's well thought out and it makes the story behave organically, making it feel more grounded as a result. But it's just not enough to please Anita, so Neil has to go out and speak.

Anita Sarkeesian

Neil sits down at Kibrick's table on the show "Between the Lines" to put on his "philosophical mask" and talk about a story where there are no heroes or villains. Only to quickly turn David into a villain when he has to please Anita. That's how easily Neil changes his mask.

Neil's entire description of the subtext in his previous work is compromised because he tries to make it fit within the tropes that Anita considers acceptable.

If you don't know who Anita is, I've included a link below to a beautiful video summary.

Neil Keynotes

https://youtu.be/RjwuPeqZt0s?si=szUA6N9kh7Qsa_5e

Kibrick Interview

https://youtu.be/tKovsNkPntI?si=af6l95htjKon_t_k

Anita Sarkeesian Summary

https://youtu.be/vtX20UarGig?si=p7D8TW-ouo5nAzEd

u/-GreyFox — 3 months ago

The concept and importance of "North Star" in game development, and The Last of Us "North Star"

u/-GreyFox — 3 months ago

To be visceral and leave a mark of meaning, instead of simply being visceral for the sake of being so

u/-GreyFox — 3 months ago

Why isn't Ellie's immunity in Part II a major part of the story? Neil answers your question.

u/-GreyFox — 3 months ago