u/According_Movie4622

▲ 38 r/Kingdom

The Siege of Kantan

Nothing is perfectly clear right now. Therefore, making a full analysis at this stage doesn't make much sense. However, I just want to point out a few things.

Shin and the HSU have reached Kantan. They will most likely lay siege to it. At the start of the war, Shin had 40k soldiers, excluding the former Han troops. He took his entire army with him and left his rear completely to Yoko Yoko. We must also consider the casualties he took along the way. At best, Shin has around 30k to 40k troops right now.

There are two possibilities here:

First: Shin and Ten are incredibly stupid. Ou Sen had 200k men during the Gyou Campaign. Even he couldn't take Zhao's second-largest city through a direct siege. Yet, Shin and Ten somehow think they can take the capital Kantan with much fewer men and in a much shorter time.

Second: Kantan can actually be captured with this number of troops. If this is true, then Ou Sen's entire locust strategy and everything at Gyou Campaign is complete trash.

If either of these two scenarios turns out to be true, it will completely destroy the internal dynamics of the series.

Therefore, I am thinking, or rather hoping for a third option. Maybe Shin and Ten are executing a strategy to lure Ri Boku into a trap. Or perhaps Shou Hei Kun or Ou Sen strictly ordered them to attack Kantan no matter the cost. Frankly, I can't think of any other reasonable scenario.

There are also people claiming that Ri Boku set a trap. We will probably see a trap. But Ri Boku himself has stated multiple times that Shin is highly unpredictable. If Ri Boku actually designed a plan that leaves his own capital completely alone with Shin, that would be another level of absolute nonsense. I won't even mention the absurdity of Shin and Ten actually falling for this trap.

reddit.com
u/According_Movie4622 — 3 days ago
▲ 17 r/Kingdom

Ri Boku's Grand Strategy

The most prominent feature of Qin's invasion of Zhao, which started with the Gyou Campaign in 236 BC, was a dispersed war strategy. Instead of concentrating their forces in one place, they fought in three separate war zones led by three Great Generals. During the campaign, while Yo Tan Wa was at Ryouyou and Ou Sen was at the Shukai Plains, Kan Ki was besieging the city. Thus, Ri Boku, whose qualified human resources were limited, was deprived of the opportunity to intervene.

For the next two years, the front-line war initiated by Ko Chou was pushed back step by step, inch by inch, by these three generals across three separate fronts. Before the Battle of Eikyuu, the Qin armies had approached the cities of Bujou and Heiyou. And finally, when Kan Ki delivered the finishing blow and killed Ko Chou, the entirety of southern Zhao was lost.

Reappointed as Commander-in-Chief the following year, Ri Boku first and foremost utilized the advantage of the great wall he had built. Besides completely cutting off the Qin's ability to advance towards Kantan along a southern line, he also locked down Yo Tan Wa in this region. However, he still had two Great Generals facing him. After his previous boast to Shou Hei Kun that he could defeat all Qin generals simultaneously, he learned his lesson from his defeat at Gyou and put his arrogance aside. Accordingly, he bled the Ou Sen Army at Atsuyo and took them out of the campaign. Thus, he reduced his opponents down to one. Then, by massing the majority of his forces in a single area, he routed the Qin army in one decisive battle. Afterwards, despite Kan Ki's genius, Battle of Hika couldn't change the final outcome.

Although he managed to draw the Qin army into another battle at Hango the following year, this time he did not possess the same massive numerical advantage as he had in Gian. Moreover, he was fully aware that his wings would eventually collapse against Yo Tan Wa and Shin. For this reason, he had no choice but to shatter the Qin center with a single, devastating blow. To achieve this, he used the Seika Army, his greatest asset. His plan worked, and he halted the enemy's campaign in a single decisive battle.

In summary, Ri Boku's grand strategy relies not on a war of attrition along a front line, but on drawing the enemy into a battle where he dictates the terms, resulting in their absolute rout. Military history is not my field of study, but Napoleon's strategy was also largely based on this principle.

The greatest weakness of this strategy is undoubtedly an enemy attacking from multiple locations rather than a single point. Realizing this, Shou Hei Kun launched a seven-front war. And with this move alone, he defeated Ri Boku right from the very beginning.

Ri Boku's biggest mistake, however, is his failure to launch a counter-offensive. After a victory like Hango, he should have relentlessly pursued the scattered and retreating Qin Army. The fact that he made absolutely no plans to reclaim the territories that were Zhao land just a year or two ago, and didn't even make a move towards the former keys of Zhao Retsubi and Roumou means he failed to deliver a finishing blow to his strategy. This is an irreparable error. And we are currently witnessing the consequences of this inaction.

To answer some potential criticisms in advance, I want to add a few more things. While this grand strategy is narratively logical, realistic, and consistent, Hara's moves at the tactical level were equally mediocre and even problematic.

After seeing the great wall, the reason Ou Sen planned the northern Zhao campaign is to prevent the Zhao royals from escaping north is flawed from start to finish. Capturing a single city wouldn't prevent an escape to the north; by that logic, they should have captured eastern Zhao before attacking Kantan. In fact, they would need to capture everywhere. Ou Sen being taken out of the entire campaign due to casualties taken at a single city (Atsuyo) is also problematic. Furthermore, it makes no sense that Shou Hei Kun, who had to implement a nationwide household registration system just to gather 300k soldiers, could suddenly raise a 200k-strong army solely from northeastern Qin with a single order, place it under the command of two mediocre generals, and then have this entire army routed by another Zhao army whose exact numbers we don't know but estimate to be around 30-40k.

There are plenty of problems with Hango as well. We don't know how Yo Tan Wa, who stayed behind to defend Bujou and Heiyou the previous year, was able to participate in this campaign. We don't know why Ou Sen specifically chose Hango, or how Ri Boku perfectly predicted it. There is also no logical explanation for how Ou Sen was completely ignorant of an army that had already fought against Qin and whose strength was known even to Go Hou Mei's generals.

Although the issues I've listed significantly lower the quality of the series, it is clear that Ri Boku's grand strategy is a well-thought-out concept that Hara put real effort into. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this.

Finally, I will conclude my post by reminding everyone that historical reality and fictional reality are not the same, nor do they have to be.

Thank you to everyone who read.

reddit.com
u/According_Movie4622 — 4 days ago
▲ 28 r/Kingdom

I want to analyze Zhao's troop numbers, which is one of the most criticized and heavily debated topics in the series. Since there were no astronomical numbers in the earlier battles, I will start the analysis from the Gyou Campaign. I will cover every year up to the ongoing final war without skipping any details as much as possible. So, I will evaluate the 236-229 BC period.

1 - 236 BC (The Gyou Campaign)
a) First, at the Shukai Plains, Ri Boku commanded the 120k-strong Atsuyo Army.
b) In the Battle of Ryouyou, Kou Son Ryuu had the 90k-strong Ryouyou Army. Added to this were the three 20k-strong Quanrong armies led by the three brothers. There is also King Rozo's personal army, whose numbers we don't know. Let's say there are at least 10k of them.
c) There are the units that came to relieve Gyou. Chapter 519 alone mentions over 9,000 soldiers. It's not hard to guess that these attacks continued throughout the 15-day siege, even if not with the same volume. Additionally, Gyou itself has a large garrison.
d) There are garrisons that attacked to delay the Qin Army on the way to Retsubi. We don't know their strength or numbers.
e) Ko Chou retakes Retsubi with 50k soldiers.
f) There is also the 100k-strong Royal Army.

Summing it up, Zhao has at least 430k soldiers at its disposal. The garrisons I mentioned in 'c' probably make up at least another 30-40k. I can say around 10-20k for the units in 'd'. This brings the total to 500k. I know people will object to this, so I'll put it at 450k. This number does not include the garrisons in the north and east. And we have no idea about their numbers. I will just deduce that there was no significant army in the east, since no one could stop Ordo's 20k attack until it reached Seika, and close this year.

2 - 235 BC
There is no major battle this year. Instead, a struggle along the border line begins. The map in Chapter 649 shows the situation clearly. HSU commanders talk about the endless Zhao forces. Although we can't give an exact number, we can understand that massive numbers are involved since they are able to stop the Qin Armies. We cannot explain them stopping the Qin Army by saying Qin simply hasn't replenished their losses from the previous year, because in the same chapter, it is stated that the HSU's strength has increased to 15k.

3 - 234 BC
The year of the Battle of Eikyuu. The front-line war continues. While the three GGs try to advance, Zhao Commander-in-Chief Ko Chou waits behind this line with his main army. In Chapter 675, it is stated that his army's size is 150k. In Chapter 676, it is seen that against Kan Ki's 80k soldiers, Zhao has a total of 240k soldiers. This means there were at least 90k Zhao soldiers on the front Kan Ki was advancing on. I say "at least" because this number emerges after a long struggle and consecutive losses. The other two GGs must be fighting forces of similar size; otherwise, it would be impossible to explain the stalemate on those fronts. So, Zhao deploys at least 420k soldiers to the front.
We must not forget that this force was amassed with soldiers transferred from Northern Zhao to the south as a result of the Qin-Wei alliance, as stated in Chapter 662. Since Ko Chou's Army, which was 50k when taking Retsubi, has increased to 150k here, I believe the Royal Army troops are included in this number. Besides, since the king changed, it is normal for this army to be sent to the front.

4 - 233 BC
The year of the Gian Campaign. Besides Kan Ki executing 100k prisoners, there must be a significant number of soldiers killed during the clashes. Ri Boku covers this deficit with civilians who volunteer to take up arms out of national outrage, and with Seika. But despite this, the Zhao Army in Gian is 310k strong. This number does not include the armies of Ji Aga and Kan Saro located in Roumuo, and Shi Ba Shou who did not leave Seika. Since they had 20k, 20k, and 30k strong armies respectively at Hango, I assume their armies this year were of similar strength. This makes a total of 360-380k soldiers. Let's also remember that there is a significant amount of newly conscripted soldiers in this army. The number is obviously lower compared to the previous year. A portion of them is likely kept in the south to defend Ri Boku's wall.

5 - 232 BC
The year of the Hango Campaign. The Zhao Army at Hango consists of 300k soldiers. This is 60-80k less than the previous year. The only reasonable explanation for this decrease is the losses taken in Roumuo, Gian, and Hika. Even though these were somewhat one-sided battles, Zhao still suffered significant casualties.
I have to open a separate parenthesis for Seika here. In the center, Shi Ba Shou commands 100k soldiers. But it's unclear how many of these are from Seika and how many are from other regions. What makes me think not all of them are from Seika is that after the battle, while collecting the bodies of Seika soldiers to take back to the city, they leave the other Zhao soldiers behind. Although some claim that the "other Zhao soldiers" mentioned here are the casualties of the Fu Tei Army, this claim doesn't seem very plausible considering the Fu Tei Army's only function was to wrap up an already finished battle and mop up the remnants. On the other hand, considering the fact that Juuko is a city with an 80k-strong army and Ryouyou has at least 70k as mentioned above, Seika having a 100k-strong army wouldn't contradict the logic of the series. In any case, the vast majority, and probably all, of Shi Ba Shou's 30k main force are Seika natives.

6 - 231 BC
No battles take place. It's Zhao's first war-free year in a long time.

7 - 230 BC
No battles occur other than the clash where the 70k-strong armies of Shun Sui Ju and Ba Nan Ji, and Fu Tei's 10k-strong army fought against Mou Ten to break the Siege of Shintei.

8 - 229 BC
The year of the Great War. The map in Chapter 852 tells us that besides the 400k soldiers, there are other unknown forces. To examine it in detail:
a) The 40k-strong Dai Army. An army newly joining the war.
b) The 80k-strong Seika Army. Like in Hango, we don't know how much of it is originally Seika troops and how much is from other regions. However, due to their inability to defeat the Ou Sen Army despite their numerical superiority, and the fact that Ri Boku had to arrange a separate army, I believe a significant portion of them are not from Seika. Or I hope so. Because otherwise, Seika truly turns into a city that mass-produces soldiers on an assembly line.
c) The 40k-strong Gan Shu Army. 15k of these are Qi soldiers.
d) The Chou Kotsu Army. Their number is 30k. This army is part of the Royal Army. Indeed, the King had given Ri Boku 50k soldiers. This army is a part of that. These are also troops that have never participated in the war against Qin so far. I mentioned above that the Royal Army was put under Ko Chou's command. This is probably another army.
e) Fu Tei and Kaine Armies. Just like in Hango, they have 30k and 10k-strong armies. Since they didn't really participate in the fighting there, it's normal for them to maintain the same strength.
f) Ki Sui, Ba Tei, and Ri Haku Armies. Their total number is 60k. These three generals hadn't appeared in the series since the Gyou Campaign. Making a complete guess, I will say that these three fought on the front lines in the wars of 235 and 234, and were subsequently stationed at Ri Boku's wall.
g) The Ganmon Army. Shun Sui Ju, Ba Nan Ji, Kotsu Min, and Ba Fuu Ji have a total of 110k soldiers. These four had 90k soldiers at Hango. Furthermore, the duo of Shun Sui Ju and Ba Nan Ji, as I mentioned earlier, had fought against Mou Ten the previous year with 70k soldiers.
h) The En Kan Army. 60k men. He had 70k soldiers at Hango.
i) The units in Ri Boku's second line. Small units scattered in various places, led by commanders like Earl Rai and the Ten Spears warriors. Even though we don't know their exact numbers, it is obvious that they should form a significant force when combined.
j) The Gaku Shou Army, whose location we don't know, and Ri Boku's other various surprise units of all sizes are the final forces that need to be considered.

Summing it up, we are talking about an army of approximately 500k men. Since 55k of this are soldiers from Dai and Qi, 60k are soldiers pulled from the wall and sent to the front, and 50k are royal forces, when we subtract these, we roughly arrive at the number of soldiers at Hango. If we also factor in the new conscripts from the three war-free years and the garrisons from abandoned regions, a picture emerges that is not entirely impossible.

Now let's get to the point. Even though the astronomical size of Zhao's troop numbers bothers readers, including myself, we must admit that it forms a consistent pattern. There are many topics to debate, such as the quality of these armies and the level of the generals. But the troop numbers show an internal consistency within the series, except for two issues.
The first of these is the Seika Army. Setting aside their strength, the ambiguity in their numbers is a major problem, but it can be explained away somewhat by saying that not all of the army are Seika natives.
The other is the royal army. It is not logical for the royalty to have an army capable of giving 100k to Ko Chou and 50k to Ri Boku. Beyond that, is the Zhao royalty the only one with such an army? Ei Sei went to defend Sai with two thousand soldiers. During the Siege of Kanyou, there was no one to protect the city except the garrison and Shou Hei Kun's cavalry. This damages the credibility.

Lastly, there are constant criticisms that it doesn't align with historical reality, such as the argument that Zhao shouldn't have been able to recover its strength after Bai Qi buried 400k soldiers. A fiction writer can bend and twist history as they please. And this is done extensively in the series. As long as it has internal consistency, these things don't matter. What truly makes a piece of fiction valuable is its consistency rather than its realism. I'll add this and conclude.

Thank you to everyone who read.

reddit.com
u/According_Movie4622 — 17 days ago
▲ 28 r/Kingdom

During the Han Campaign, I was predicting that Kou Yoku would kill or injure Tou because of the dynamic between them. It wasn't just me, though; many people on the sub were of the same opinion. But Tou retired without such a confrontation, and now there's no longer a possibility for them to face each other again.

The Chu Duo definitely can't be compared to Fu Tei and Kaine; at least Haku Rei has a general kill to his name. Kou Yoku also had his storyline with Tou, and he captured Keito on his own. And both of them, unlike Fu Tei, have led their armies on campaigns. But still, I believe this duo has been treated unfairly, or rather, that they haven't been given the importance they deserve.

There are at least three more campaigns to be fought against Chu, and they will likely play active roles in them. However, their armies, skills, and strength will feel unearned and artificial, because we haven't seen the stages of development they've gone through. I would have liked to see their battles against Qi, Wei, or the southern kingdoms, even if just for a few panels. A chance could have been given to them instead of dedicating at least one chapter to Kaine and Ri Boku in every single Zhao arc.

I hope their stories conclude in a way that is fitting for their characters.

u/According_Movie4622 — 24 days ago