Runner on second. Ball four called on the batter, who begins to go to first base. Batter collides with catcher who is stepping forward to attempt a back-pick on R2. Is the batter protected from being called out for interference?
USA Softball
OBR
NFHS
Whatever you got. Thanks!
R1, R2. One out. 3-2 count.
OBR:
Rule 6.01(a)(5) - It is interference by a batter or a runner when… any batter or runner who has just been put out, or any runner who has just scored, hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate.
Rule 6.01(a)(5) Comment: If the batter or a runner continues to advance or returns or attempts to return to his last legally touched base after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.
This is 12U. I did not have this as an intentional act by the batter-runner. It's a 12-year-old who doesn't understand the uncaught-third nuances. Heck, he technically never even became the batter-runner. I acknowledged the interference but did not call "Time" because, honestly, I was buying a few seconds to work out what I just saw. Plus, I was waiting to see if the catcher's throw retired R2 on the backpick. It was brain overload.
But is this even interference? I want to know what "by that act alone" means in the (a)(5) Comment. The batter attempted to advance after he had been put out. But does "that act alone" only refer to his continuing to run the bases? Is he no longer protected by this rule when he actually hinders a following play?
For example, say the catcher does not attempt a backpick at 2B in this video and instead attempts to throw to first base because he saw the batter-runner attempting to advance. I think the runner is protected by (a)(5) Comment in that situation in terms of confusing the defense. But I'm fuzzy on how much leeway "by that act alone" gives a batter/runner who has just been put out.
*Sorry for the watermark. My footage routinely gets reposted without proper credit attributed. It's, to me, an interesting video I'm gonna be posting to my social media channels, and I wanted the sub's take on this play before sitting down and making a quick short about it. Thanks.
R1 only. Double-play ball. PU keeps his eyes on the legal slide at second base. Is PU supposed to be shading toward third base or first base on this type of play?
First base would be the first answer to help with pulled foot/swipe tag. If you're keeping your eyes on the legal slide at second base, do you have enough time to even help at first base? Are you selling out like you would on a typical trail of the BR toward first?
Does shading toward third base give you a better view of the slide at second?
Just curious on everyone's thoughts. Because I've seen both mechanics used.
I saw a recent thread discussing the batter's box and "any other movement." Two clips in this video. The first one, I didn't call in real time because I believed the catcher's throwing motion was a designed "snap throw" intending to use the left-handed batter as a screen on the back pick.
How about the second clip? Notice in both clips that the batter has remained in the batter's box...but has also made a movement that, in the judgment of the umpire, may have interfered with the catcher.
The pertinent OBR rules are in the video. NFHS language similarly says the pitcher "MAY lift the non-pivot foot in a step forward, a step sideways, or in a step backward and a step forward, but the pitcher SHALL NOT otherwise lift either foot."
A good rule of thumb I learned years ago was to substitute the word "shall" with "must" when reading rule sets. The word "shall" appears over 800 times in OBR. In the language of both OBR and NFHS, it does not say the pitcher "shall/must" take one step backward and then a step forward. Both rule sets say the pitcher "may" do so.
I think this is a gray area***** in rule sets that only sees the light of day in younger baseball. I get maybe one of these deliveries every summer. Unless it's a quick pitch done "in a deliberate effort to catch the batter off guard," there's no rule I can point to that says a pitcher MUST swing his free foot to the back or side then MUST follow that with a step toward home. I had two separate rules interpreters clear this up for me years ago.
*Gray area might not be the best description of this situation. Rather, I'd like a Rule Comment in the books that clarify it is legal for a pitcher to simply take one step toward home when delivering from the windup, provided it is not judged to be a quick pitch in a deliberate effort to catch the batter off guard.
In this video, if you believe it is a quick pitch, then that's your call. But I'd had this batter for three at-bats before this one. And you can see he has both hands on the bat and prepared to swing, but he does an extra little bat twirl when he sees the pitcher bring his hands together. He does it on every pitch. I don't think this 12U pitcher is savvy enough to pick up on this tendency and take advantage of it here, but who knows; he may have. I just think this is a 12U pitcher working from the windup, forgetting he has a runner on first, panicking, and accidentally delivering a legal pitch.
The annotations on this video are something I made for our local umpires and social-media channels that are beginning to pick up steam, but I'm considering not posting it at all because I really don't want young pitchers to see this and work it into their repertoire. While legal, in the hands of young pitchers, it would lead to a lot of dangerous quick pitches.
I'm hoping someone has an umpire manual or rules interpretation that covers this type of pitch delivery from the windup and all of us can get clarification on it in the comments. I love being wrong, but as of right now I don't see anything in a rule set that says this pitch delivery is illegal.
I'll admit the "camera work" is shaky. "Filming" a play with my mask is the furthest thing from my mind. But we have R2 and R3. F5 attempts a play on a batted ball. It gets past him. R2 is then hindered by F5 kneeling on the ground after missing the batted ball.
*Volume is muted to hide whether or not interference, obstruction, or nothing was called on this play*
For those in the "nothing" camp, given the quick sequence of events, at what point does that "nothing" become something? I apologize for being somewhat obtuse in this post, but I just don't want anything I type to influence opinions on the play.
Footage: WVU at Pitt Club baseball 4/25/26
I've been an umpire for 22 years, and it's embarrassing to even post this, but I recently had a golden opportunity to watch the "fourth out" rule come into play...and I missed the call. This video contains all of the rules pertaining to when the "fourth out" comes into effect. This is a very unconventional play. It obviously caught me by surprise, and I simply missed it. I won't miss it again. My only solace is that if I had noticed the situation, I would have declared the run beating the appeal play at first, the defense would have connected the dots, and they would have carried out the appeal on R3 to negate the run anyway.
I've umpired over 2,000 games, all levels you can imagine, and I've only had the "fourth out" situation one other time, in 2011 in a 16U game:
Bases loaded. No outs. Deep fly ball to right-center gap. All runners take off on the hit. RF catches the ball. One out. Defense doubles off R2 at second. Two outs. Then throw to first to double off R1. Three outs. Before the third out was made at first base (this is an appeal play, not a force play), R3 had scored. I declared the run scoring, having beaten the appeal play at first base, for the benefit of the scorekeepers. In this situation, the defense can still make their "fourth out" appeal of R3 leaving early as long as at least one infielder, including the pitcher, has not crossed the foul line to the dugout. In all the celebration and commotion around the exciting triple play, the defense rushed off the field and didn't hear me declaring the run counted, so they were unable to carry out the appeal when the dust settled.
Footage: 4/18/26 - Club baseball. Miami University at Pitt. This is a mask camera I wear that my local umpire chapter is using to recruit umpires.
***This post is in response to a recent post in this sub about the "fourth out": “Fourth” Out? Rules Question : r/Homeplate
As far as the play description at the link is concerned, the run absolutely counts since R2 was not forced to third base on the play. The batter-runner being thrown out at first is not an appeal play, so it is not subject to the "fourth out" rule. The half-inning ended when the tag was applied to R2, and R3 scored before the tag.