u/Chance_Rhubarb_46

Why are derivatives used directly as functions if they're based from limits, which show convergence and not an output?

I am failing to connect the relationship with derivatives and the definition of limits.

When we have a limit, its defined as a constant that a function converges to.

However,

lim x->a f(x) = L

does not guarantee

f(a) = L

For example,

lim x-> 1 f(x) = (x - 1)(x + 1) /(x - 1) = 2

However, it is undefined for x = 1. That is,

  1. Limits are used to show what the functions converges to.
  2. The function never reaches the limit.

For a derivative given the definition,

lim h -> 0 (f(x + h) - f(x))/ h

derivatives are based from limits and therefore should follow the same restrictions imposed on limits. From this definition, the derivative therefore originates from congruence behaviour. It is not the slope of one fininte interval, but the unique value toward which all sufficiently small nearby interval slopes converge under infinite refinement as h approaches 0.

So being picky here, the derivative at point f'(2) = ... should not be that value, but rather a derivative at a point is the exact limiting value of nearby secant slopes as the interval width approaches 0. It is not guaranteed to be that value from the previous example above.

So I am having difficulty grasping the connection being derivatives being used given that they're based off of limits. If we take any basic example f'(2) = ..., this based off of a limit. It shows what it converges to, it is not guaranteed to have a specific value because it is not a function at a point, it is a limit.

Does anyone understand what I am trying to ask here? I have asked AI several times but I have given up with their responses. My confusion is that derivatives are based off of limits, but limits are defined to never truly reach a value, it shows where it converges to. Converges to is not identical as that value but we use derivatives in calculations as its a slope at that exact point whereas its a slope from the given point as a limit from h-> 0 from the formula given above. So shouldn't that mean that we cannot use derivatives directly in a calculation, especially in real world applications as they're based from limits?

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u/Chance_Rhubarb_46 — 5 days ago

Why do we remove dt as the limit approaches zero like a constant, when it never reaches zero?

When calculating the derivative of t^3, we can observe this to be 3t^2 + 3t dt + dt^2 when calculating it manually. The component involving dt is removed as the limit approaches zero, 3Blue1Brown does it here.

While I understand the point trying to be made, that it's "so small" that it is not involved, I don't see it being mathematically sound to remove it because it is by definition "t > 0" and thus, should technically be included even if "very small".

Addition to this it's like saying that the limit of x approaches infinity for 1/x = 0. Again, I understand that conceptually it becomes so small that it effectively rounds to 0, but that's not my point. My point is that at no point it reaches 0. At no point is their a ratio such that it makes sense for division to become 0 for any division of any number larger than 0.

So my question is simply, why do we remove or round some limits in these cases and then work with the numbers like they reached it.

u/Chance_Rhubarb_46 — 8 days ago

I am still trying to practice employing units into questions in order to validate my answer. I attempted to employ my techniques in a question I found but it failed to translate correctly. I was hoping someone could advise me on how to properly create functions and units to validate the answers dimensionality.

The question was "You're in a stadium of unknown size. Every second the amount of water in the stadium doubles. It starts with a single drop. The stadium is full after 60 seconds. When is the stadium a quarter full?"

I understand the question and frequently given answers. However I am trying to practice function creation and unit placements. So I did the following,

V0 = 1 m^3 * 2^0
Vf = 1 m^3 * 2^60
Vf/4 = (1 m^3 * 2^60)/2^2 = 2^58

Therefore, 1*m^3 * 2^t = 2^58m^3, it follows t=58.

My confusion comes from the phrasing, in particular "seconds" where no seconds unit is present. When first trying to construct this equation I thought,

V m^3 = 1 * m^3 * 2^t

As conceptually I thought,

  1. The volume had to be in m^3, thus the result is in m^3
  2. The single drop, which is the base volume has to be in m^3 as it scales up
  3. The time, which is in the time passes has to be in seconds.

However, given m^3 *s != m^3, this fails to work.

Can anyone help me understand when do I employ units correctly as I try to use them extensively now to check for dimensionality and answer validation and in some cases use them solely to solve questions provided the information.

This question seems to not use the "seconds" units here, despite being phrased as such. In physics, such as acceleration m/s^2, we still multiply by s to maniuplate units when counting forward in time, why not here?

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u/Chance_Rhubarb_46 — 15 days ago

I have been studying a lot about the pendulum serve, but can someone help validate for me the exact contact point? For example this video discusses how you flick your wrist in an upward motion upon contact.

However, I am starting to think if I should be grabbing the ball at the very bottom or it would be easier to grab it on an angle where you contact around the centre, as to grab it easier and thus have more control when flicking it upwards with your wrist.

I will try to illustrate with images. So my first thought if mimicing Ma Long, where he does an upward motion to a downward motion with his arm. I managed to capture a frame below. Despite being backspin (With side), it doesn't make contact at the very bottom. Can that only mean that contact is ideally shown on the left, where you make the contact here and this perform a wrist rotation upwards to add additional backspin.

https://preview.redd.it/1p7qtgnu99zg1.png?width=2235&format=png&auto=webp&s=011762db097688d287048b6ec59aeaf5a84dce30

OR

https://preview.redd.it/a920a8snb9zg1.png?width=1016&format=png&auto=webp&s=131a2ddd8b2074778bebac4fa1a147c346091fe8

Are you meant to make contact around this point and then rotate your wrist upwards? I really cannot seem to find a consistent answer, never mentioned in the video above.

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u/Chance_Rhubarb_46 — 17 days ago

In an attempt to understand the trigonometry sum identities I went through the proof referencing the unit circle. The visualize proof that I am referencing is visible here - https://i.sstatic.net/dhFCv.jpg.

For the proof of the summation of the angle, e.g. sin(α+β) I can easily understand the intent. If I have an angle α and I rotate this angle by β amount then the final angle will result in a counter clickwise rotation. This is clear.

However, the proof using the subtraction of the angle is not clear to me, for example cos(αβ). When I see this arithmatic operation I visualize an angle α and then rotate it clockwise by β amount. This interpretation is inconsistent with the proof, infact the angle α in the proof is not in the position to be a rotation around the centre. So I am finding it hard to visualize my intuitive interprtation with the geometic proof. My visualization would appear to be something like this - https://gyazo.com/9098c9aeb6777461d225eecf9df786a8.

Could anyone explain how this proof for subtraction works compared to my intuitive thought processes?

u/Chance_Rhubarb_46 — 22 days ago