u/Dull-Hope9995

Curious about what the consensus is among socialists. Obviously, there’s going to be some difference, but what is the broad majority opinion?

The countries today that claim to be socialist—but when we look at their economic systems and classes, we see that there is capitalism. With that, do you take it as them masquerading as socialists and having abandoned the path of socialism, or are they still considered socialist because they have socialists in government? Isn’t that really unfair and inaccurate terminology—to call the countries themselves socialist just because they have socialist governments?

For example, some of those countries today, like China, currently have a lot of resources that they could actually use to implement socialism, with workers actually owning the means of production, etc. Or is it that these countries cannot achieve socialism if there isn’t a domino effect of socialist revolutions happening, with an emphasis on Western countries? That they cannot become socialist because the world-dominating economy is capitalist, and there’s no revolution happening. But also, couldn’t they help bring that about?

And then you have countries like Cuba, in their own way, going down the path of privatization, aka capitalism.

Past and current socialist states failed to achieve full socialism because they started poor, isolated, and constantly under siege by the US and Western capitalist powers. Marx and Lenin made it clear that socialism cannot exist in a vacuum; it must be global.

Today, the world is more globally interconnected than ever before. If a revolution were to successfully happen in the United States or a major Western power, wouldn't it trigger an unstoppable global domino effect?

By capturing the heart of the global capitalist economy, it would instantly stop imperialist intervention, allow the immediate pooling of advanced technology/resources, and finally end worker exploitation on a global scale.

If this is true, shouldn't our absolute priority as socialist be agitating, organizing, and building class consciousness in Western nations to ensure the next major capitalist crisis turns into a successful, global transition?

In Marxist theory, you have bourgeois democracy. It is the capitalist apparatus, and it appears to be democratic and “for the people” on the surface. But in reality, it is there to protect capitalist interests.

I don't fully understand how all of this works. Is democracy supposed to simply give the illusion of power to workers by making it seem like they have political power through voting and by giving them multiple political parties? Whether it is five, six, twelve, or however many, you have progressive parties, conservative parties, etc. Is all of this ultimately for two things: creating an illusion of political power and providing different methods of protecting the system?

Why do some socialists even try to become politicians if they're going to end up as bourgeois politicians, because you cannot use the capitalist apparatus against the capitalist class?

You have people who think that progressives and socialists are going to get rid of the established politicians, but aren't they all eventually going to become established themselves?

And lastly, what are the ways that the capitalist class uses politicians for their benefit? Do they directly talk to them, or is it simply through money, lobbying, political pressure, etc.? I don't fully understand how all of that works.

I am a Marxist-Leninist from the United States. While my observations are heavily shaped by what I see here in America, I strongly believe these points apply globally. I am posting this because I earnestly want to hear perspective not just from other Americans, but from socialists of all countries on how we overcome this. Right now, I look at the future and see nothing good happening. To me, it is exactly what Rosa Luxemburg said: it is either socialism or barbarism. Yet, time and time again, people keep choosing barbarism. I want actual socialism in my lifetime. But I am having serious doubts that it will ever happen, globally or locally unless these core reasons change:

1. People confuse socialism with welfare capitalism (and reject the real thing) A lot of people who claim they want "socialism" actually just want capitalism with a strong welfare safety net (like the Nordic model). When you explain what actual socialism is—workers owning the means of production, etc.—they realize they don't actually want it. They don't think it's possible.

2. A preference for reform and "superhero" politicians The average person doesn't want a revolution, and they don't want to do the heavy organizational work. Instead, they believe reform is the best path. They want a "superhero" politician or a benevolent bourgeois figure to save them and hand them liberation from above, rather than achieving it through class struggle.

3. Deep-seated belief in hierarchy Every economic system in human history has had a ruling class and an oppressed class— besides prehistoric times. Because of this, people earnestly believe that there must be hierarchies—that there always have to be "haves" and "have-nots." Socialism is unique because it demands a society where no one is above you, and I think a lot of people psychologically reject or fear that.

4. Organization strategy won't change this Because of these factors, I don't think it matters what organizations like the DSA, the PSL, or any other socialist groups in the world do. It won't matter if they become more Marxist-Leninist or more revolutionary, because they can't force a system onto a population that fundamentally doesn't want to do the work to build it. I do believe that you cannot reform into socialism, and I believe a Vanguard party is absolutely necessary. As Che Guevara said, "The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall." But a Vanguard party can't succeed if the masses are too deeply wedded to capitalism and hierarchy.

5. Material conditions are ready, but consciousness lags behind What makes this so painful is that capitalism has already produced enough abundance. We currently produce so many goods and wealth that we have the objective capacity to distribute resources globally, sharing, building, and helping each other across borders. Furthermore, we are watching a massive structural contradiction develop with the rise of Advanced Artificial Intelligence. As AI automates jobs, it threatens to strip the working class of the ability to sell their labor. If people cannot sell their labor, how can they support capitalism? How can they even survive? Yet, instead of demanding a socialist transition to handle this post-labor reality, all we hear from the masses and reformists is a desperate cry for "regulation, regulation." They want to patch up a dying, automated capitalist system rather than overthrow it.

Preempting the Materialist Argument: I know some will argue that material conditions are the sole driver of mass consciousness, and that a sudden collapse in material reality (like an AI-driven unemployment crisis) will automatically force a shift toward revolutionary thinking. While I agree that material conditions heavily influence how people act, I do not know if I can believe this is the full picture.

Historically, we have seen that when material conditions collapse, the masses do not automatically turn to socialism. Very often, history does not move in a neat, linear line. Instead, societies can regress. When the contradictions of capitalism become too high, people frequently double down on their psychological conditioning, reject true liberation, and choose barbarism (whatever that might be at the time). The psychological attachment to having a ruling class and a "superhero" savior runs much deeper than just current economic comfort.

My questions for comrades worldwide:

• If you agree with this analysis, parts of it, or none, what are your reasons? Where do you see this playing out in your country? • How do we break the masses away from demanding bourgeois "regulation" of things like AI, and move them toward demanding worker ownership? • If you agree that this hopelessness is real, how do you personally cope with it and justify organizing?

**Do list the country your at.

I want to know do you think we have any viable parties or organizations in America (and in the rest of the world) that could potentially lead to the vanguard party to fight and win the revolution? What group do you think is capable of forming such actions, educating the people on socialism, and building class consciousness, not trade union consciousness? And the same for comrades in other parts of the world, not America: what group in your country do you see as being a viable one? I know that in some countries, they have socialist groups that have a membership of a million people, or just way more than what we have in America, but there is no revolution and there is no class consciousness there. And lastly comrades: if you do not think there is a viable organization, do you think that there will be a formation of one, maybe from the best revolutionaries from each group or something similar?