u/Few-Log-581

African grey behaviour irreversible?

Tw: Talk of blood, animal abuse and neglect

Around 2016-ish, my family was given three parrots from a couple after ALS had taken the husband and the wife could not care for three parrots.

Names and ages when my family had got them:
Bean - Female Ring Necked parakeet, 20s
Salt - Male Cockatiel late, near 10 or 11
Pepper - Male African grey early 30s

BACKSTORY:
Immediately the state of these birds were concerning. They were all temperamental and aggressive, biting, hissing, bad habits all around. When we got them, Salt had the largest cage despite his size, (I want to say around 70” by 60”, maybe a bit less) Bean was in a cage that was a little smaller than salts, and Peppers cage was a size I didn’t even know a cage could be. it was probably 2ft by 2ft, maybe less. it was a little bit larger than pepper himself, and he only had one toy, a bell in which he pleasured himself on. To make matters worse the door of the cage had a padlock. I don’t know how long he had been in that cage for, but based on his behaviour, it wasn’t just for transport, he LIVED in there. my parents swapped salt and Peppers cage ASAP, and even gave salt a much cage larger than the box because a cage that size is cruel for any animal of any size.
My parents had spent years attempting to tame these parrots, they would play the music they like to calm them, they tried to teach them good behaviours and prevent bad behaviours.

Bean:
The only one that showed significant improvement was bean, although she hated the women in my family, she wasn’t as aggressive as she used to be, and occasionally accepted light pets, scratches, and sometimes could eat from palms. She would still bite but it was less frequent and got less painful over time. She passed away a few years ago, presumably from old age since she was in her late 20s when she passed, and didn’t show signs of being sick.

Salt:
salt was a tiny ball of anger and frustration. much like a street cat, he hissed when you would approach him and back into the furthest corner of his cage. he lived in my grandmas room and they would sing old bird nursery rhymes together. Of course he would whistle and chirp instead of talk but he tried to match her tune. He was most comfortable being alone with my grandma, anyone else was a threat to his life. When he would bite, it was about as painful as trying to close scissors on your finger, not much but still hurts. He also passed a few years ago, he looked like he was asleep but he definitely was not.

Pepper:
now pepper is CHAOS. He is a terrifying boy with everything. For years my parents attempted to control his behaviour. They tried the method of giving him treats when he does something good, time outs when he did something bad, giving him tons of things to tear into and let out his aggression, toys for entertainment and enrichment, lots of attention, clean food, clean water, clean cage ( although he destroys the cleanliness of his cage in the matter of minutes). It didn’t help that when my parents would be teaching Pepper, my siblings and I wouldn’t help and probably made things worse, we were young, dumb, and terrified of him. As I got older I attempted to teach him while my parents gradually lost hope in him. I thought maybe he learned biting = reaction and he thought it was fun, so one day I put on a pair of those thick gloves you wear for heavy duty jobs. While I was trying to befriend him, I let him bite me and I tried not to have a reaction. When I didn’t have one he continued and clamped down even harder. The gloves definitely helped him not cut into me, but he pinched a nerve in my finger anyway. Pepper also knows how to escape his cage (probably the reason for the padlock I mentioned), but notice how I said: “escape”, and didn’t just say:“open his cage door”? It’s because he’s found OTHER ways to escape. He figured out how to open the small doors that you can slide bowls of food into, so what he does is he takes out the bowl and squeezes himself through. Now from this information you’d think we don’t let him out, you would be slightly correct but for good reason. It isn’t because he flies away. No, he had flown only twice since we’ve had him and both times he flew into a window. my mom had to bring him back to his cage with a towel to act like a shield for his bites (Did not work, he bit through the towel). His habit of finding joy in harming others exceeds his cage. When he is out, weather he is let out or he escapes, he actively seeks out anyone and bites them, and not a curious nibble, a CHOMP. He clamps onto any exposed skin and grinds his beak. He literally wanders around the house, climbing on the furniture to find his victim, and it’s terrifying. since he can’t fly, he slowly and silently makes these excursions across the house. He purposely is quiet up until he’s right next to you, where he sneakily bites you and holds on like a vice grip. And sometimes when he bites, he laughs after the fact. Over the span of around 10 years of having Pepper my parents and I have had very little impact on improving Peppers behaviour. I don’t know the psychology around a parrot brain, but I think there is a possibility that the intelligence of his species and the severity of his trauma (presuming the size of his cage isn’t the only problem), has caused him to attach himself to his trauma, and his behaviour is now irreversible. It also doesn’t help that for however many of years, he was having sexual relations with his bell.

Notes:
⁃ he still has his girlfriend (the bell) in his cage. I KNOW I KNOW. I know you aren’t supposed to let them pleasure themselves but my family (including me kind of) feels bad about removing the bell because it’s been his only friend for however long he’s had it for. My family thinks that taking it away will cause him to become more aggressive while mourning the loss of his bell.
⁃ Pepper used to mimic his old owners, which led me to believe what he would say was an insight into how the parrots were treated. Pepper would swear very loudly and randomly throughout the day and would angrily yell his own name, he also one time mimicked a female moan (which was awkward to hear around my family), and since the husband was fighting ALS during the time he had them, it made me wonder if pepper witnessed an affair or something. But anyway.
⁃ He also does this thing, I have no idea why he does it but he does. He grabs the door of his cage with his beak and bangs it against the cage. My family and I thought maybe it was because he wants something, so we would fill his needs, yet he continues. We thought he wanted to come out as well, but he goes back to the door, closes it, and continues.

I have no idea what to do with him honestly. My family discussed having him go to a wildlife sanctuary, but I dunno. It just makes me upset because I want the rest of his life to not be full of finding entertainment in harming people.

TLDR:
around 2016 or 2017 my family was given 3 parrots. Bean (female ring neck parakeet around 30), Salt (male cockatiel around 10), and Pepper (male African grey around 30). Ironically, Salt had the largest cage, and pepper had the smallest cage, which was locked with a padlock. The cage was just big enough to fit him and his girlfriend, which is a bell. My parents immediately moved pepper into salts cage and gave salt a different cage because Peppers was too small even for Salt. All of the parrots had behavioural issues, they all bit and showed aggression towards my family. My parents attempted to train them and showed them love, my siblings and I were terrified of them so we didn’t help. Salt and bean showed improvement in their own ways, salt found comfort in only my grandma (he lived in her bedroom), and Bean slowly warmed up to everyone, she still bit sometimes but less hard and often. She would mostly be aggressive towards the women in my family though. They both passed away a few years ago. Now, pepper shows little to no improvement. no matter how many years of attempts, plenty of attention and care, he remains still is very malicious. Whenever he is outside of his cage (weather he escapes or somebody lets him out) he quietly sneaks around the house for a victim and clamps down on any exposed skin, and not because he’s curious or afraid, I think it’s because he likes to put people in pain. I tried to see if he did it for the reaction, so one day while I was trying to train him, I let him bite me. While I didn’t give a reaction, he continued to bite down harder until I eventually couldn’t handle it, he damaged a nerve in my finger. What doesn’t help his violent tendencies is that he still has his bell, my family and feel bad about removing his only friend, and are afraid it might make him worse. He also used to mimic his old owners, which mostly was the wife swearing and yelling at him. The weird part is he doesn’t pluck his feathers either, or show signs of severe stress or fear, other than puffing up sometimes when someone is close to his cage. I don’t want him to be this mean forever, I just don’t know what to do.

(The picture is pepper)

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u/Few-Log-581 — 18 days ago

African Grey behaviour irreversible?

Tw: Talk of blood, animal abuse and neglect

Around 2016-ish, my family was given three parrots from a couple after ALS had taken the husband and the wife could not care for three parrots.

Names and ages when my family had got them:
Bean - Female Ring Necked parakeet, 20s
Salt - Male Cockatiel late, near 10 or 11
Pepper - Male African grey early 30s

BACKSTORY:
Immediately the state of these birds were concerning. They were all temperamental and aggressive, biting, hissing, bad habits all around. When we got them, Salt had the largest cage despite his size, (I want to say around 70” by 60”, maybe a bit less) Bean was in a cage that was a little smaller than salts, and Peppers cage was a size I didn’t even know a cage could be. it was probably 2ft by 2ft, maybe less. it was a little bit larger than pepper himself, and he only had one toy, a bell in which he pleasured himself on. To make matters worse the door of the cage had a padlock. I don’t know how long he had been in that cage for, but based on his behaviour, it wasn’t just for transport, he LIVED in there. my parents swapped salt and Peppers cage ASAP, and even gave salt a much cage larger than the box because a cage that size is cruel for any animal of any size.
My parents had spent years attempting to tame these parrots, they would play the music they like to calm them, they tried to teach them good behaviours and prevent bad behaviours.

Bean:
The only one that showed significant improvement was bean, although she hated the women in my family, she wasn’t as aggressive as she used to be, and occasionally accepted light pets, scratches, and sometimes could eat from palms. She would still bite but it was less frequent and got less painful over time. She passed away a few years ago, presumably from old age since she was in her late 20s when she passed, and didn’t show signs of being sick.

Salt:
salt was a tiny ball of anger and frustration. much like a street cat, he hissed when you would approach him and back into the furthest corner of his cage. he lived in my grandmas room and they would sing old bird nursery rhymes together. Of course he would whistle and chirp instead of talk but he tried to match her tune. He was most comfortable being alone with my grandma, anyone else was a threat to his life. When he would bite, it was about as painful as trying to close scissors on your finger, not much but still hurts. He also passed a few years ago, he looked like he was asleep but he definitely was not.

Pepper:
now pepper is CHAOS. He is a terrifying boy with everything. For years my parents attempted to control his behaviour. They tried the method of giving him treats when he does something good, time outs when he did something bad, giving him tons of things to tear into and let out his aggression, toys for entertainment and enrichment, lots of attention, clean food, clean water, clean cage ( although he destroys the cleanliness of his cage in the matter of minutes). It didn’t help that when my parents would be teaching Pepper, my siblings and I wouldn’t help and probably made things worse, we were young, dumb, and terrified of him. As I got older I attempted to teach him while my parents gradually lost hope in him. I thought maybe he learned biting = reaction and he thought it was fun, so one day I put on a pair of those thick gloves you wear for heavy duty jobs. While I was trying to befriend him, I let him bite me and I tried not to have a reaction. When I didn’t have one he continued and clamped down even harder. The gloves definitely helped him not cut into me, but he pinched a nerve in my finger anyway. Pepper also knows how to escape his cage (probably the reason for the padlock I mentioned), but notice how I said: “escape”, and didn’t just say:“open his cage door”? It’s because he’s found OTHER ways to escape. He figured out how to open the small doors that you can slide bowls of food into, so what he does is he takes out the bowl and squeezes himself through. Now from this information you’d think we don’t let him out, you would be slightly correct but for good reason. It isn’t because he flies away. No, he had flown only twice since we’ve had him and both times he flew into a window. my mom had to bring him back to his cage with a towel to act like a shield for his bites (Did not work, he bit through the towel). His habit of finding joy in harming others exceeds his cage. When he is out, weather he is let out or he escapes, he actively seeks out anyone and bites them, and not a curious nibble, a CHOMP. He clamps onto any exposed skin and grinds his beak. He literally wanders around the house, climbing on the furniture to find his victim, and it’s terrifying. since he can’t fly, he slowly and silently makes these excursions across the house. He purposely is quiet up until he’s right next to you, where he sneakily bites you and holds on like a vice grip. And sometimes when he bites, he laughs after the fact. Over the span of around 10 years of having Pepper my parents and I have had very little impact on improving Peppers behaviour. I don’t know the psychology around a parrot brain, but I think there is a possibility that the intelligence of his species and the severity of his trauma (presuming the size of his cage isn’t the only problem), has caused him to attach himself to his trauma, and his behaviour is now irreversible. It also doesn’t help that for however many of years, he was having sexual relations with his bell.

Notes:
⁃ he still has his girlfriend (the bell) in his cage. I KNOW I KNOW. I know you aren’t supposed to let them pleasure themselves but my family (including me kind of) feels bad about removing the bell because it’s been his only friend for however long he’s had it for. My family thinks that taking it away will cause him to become more aggressive while mourning the loss of his bell.
⁃ Pepper used to mimic his old owners, which led me to believe what he would say was an insight into how the parrots were treated. Pepper would swear very loudly and randomly throughout the day and would angrily yell his own name, he also one time mimicked a female moan (which was awkward to hear around my family), and since the husband was fighting ALS during the time he had them, it made me wonder if pepper witnessed an affair or something. But anyway.
⁃ He also does this thing, I have no idea why he does it but he does. He grabs the door of his cage with his beak and bangs it against the cage. My family and I thought maybe it was because he wants something, so we would fill his needs, yet he continues. We thought he wanted to come out as well, but he goes back to the door, closes it, and continues.

I have no idea what to do with him honestly. My family discussed having him go to a wildlife sanctuary, but I dunno. It just makes me upset because I want the rest of his life to not be full of finding entertainment in harming people.

TLDR:
around 2016 or 2017 my family was given 3 parrots. Bean (female ring neck parakeet around 30), Salt (male cockatiel around 10), and Pepper (male African grey around 30). Ironically, Salt had the largest cage, and pepper had the smallest cage, which was locked with a padlock. The cage was just big enough to fit him and his girlfriend, which is a bell. My parents immediately moved pepper into salts cage and gave salt a different cage because Peppers was too small even for Salt. All of the parrots had behavioural issues, they all bit and showed aggression towards my family. My parents attempted to train them and showed them love, my siblings and I were terrified of them so we didn’t help. Salt and bean showed improvement in their own ways, salt found comfort in only my grandma (he lived in her bedroom), and Bean slowly warmed up to everyone, she still bit sometimes but less hard and often. She would mostly be aggressive towards the women in my family though. They both passed away a few years ago. Now, pepper shows little to no improvement. no matter how many years of attempts, plenty of attention and care, he remains still is very malicious. Whenever he is outside of his cage (weather he escapes or somebody lets him out) he quietly sneaks around the house for a victim and clamps down on any exposed skin, and not because he’s curious or afraid, I think it’s because he likes to put people in pain. I tried to see if he did it for the reaction, so one day while I was trying to train him, I let him bite me. While I didn’t give a reaction, he continued to bite down harder until I eventually couldn’t handle it, he damaged a nerve in my finger. What doesn’t help his violent tendencies is that he still has his bell, my family and feel bad about removing his only friend, and are afraid it might make him worse. He also used to mimic his old owners, which mostly was the wife swearing and yelling at him. The weird part is he doesn’t pluck his feathers either, or show signs of severe stress or fear, other than puffing up sometimes when someone is close to his cage. I don’t want him to be this mean forever, I just don’t know what to do.

(The picture is pepper)

u/Few-Log-581 — 18 days ago