u/FoxenInTheHenhice

I thought of a couple of series in which the supporting characters, like siblings, are given a lot of focus and even some hint of romance with another character. Or it could be that it gets brought up as an aside comment that they really do not like a certain character.

There is a book I read (which is the first in its series) in which I had a strong feeling that I knew who would be potential future MCs. The problem was that one of those characters had been portrayed as so irredeemable and terrible that I have trouble thinking of how the author could make that romance work without really humbling the character/making them go through a lot of grief and compromising the intelligence and self-respect of the other potential MC. Not to mention that the book ended with the character effectively having alienated themselves from their family because of their hateful behaviour. The reason I thought they could be a future MC is because there were some instances of hidden depths implied in the character's past which seemed to lead up to something that happened to make the character so terrrible now. Also, the author has taken a similar character type and made them an excellent MC before so I wondered if there would be a repeat. Maybe it'll be a surprise and this character will remain an antagonist whose actions cause their undoing.

I'll give a better known example with the unreleased {A Sinful Kind of Scot by Mia Vincy} which is to be about the character Lucy from {A Wicked Kind of Husband} but her character was not portrayed as likable (for lack of a better description). The epilogue implied something about the character and I expect there will more depth to her, possibly looking at events from a different perspective and even some potential psychological reasons for her behaviour (as the author has discussed those in other characters in her books). But I still find it difficult to see justification for all her brattiness and self-destructive behaviour and feel the romance would involve a much older and maturer MMC and probably some much-needed apologies and conversations with her older sister to make it believable.

I suppose what I meant is that there are some characters I do not think I would like to read a whole book about in their present state, unless there is a lot of character development. They are fine in small doses. Do you have any such characters in mind whose romance and happiness you would not want to root for? I would say that Colin from {Rescued from Ruin by Elisa Braden} would probably have been a response of mine if his book was not already out and I even see many reviewers say the same thing.

I think I cannot recommend non-HR books due to the sub rules so I'll just describe the main plotline or events from books that I think I'd like to see in HR.

Plotline 1: Two teachers meet when the FMC comes to stay with her unwell sister in her small town which gets its main tourism from the Renaissance Fair that practically has compulsory participation for the residents. The MMC is the one running and managing the Renaissance Fair and does not want any changes made to his organisation of it. The townspeople all work in the Fair and dress up as tavern wenches, fine ladies, pirates, lairds and have to stay in character. The MCs' get compelled to do a handfasting ceremony while in character as a pirate and wench and have to keep up that simulated romance despite disliking the other. I would like to see what the historical role-playing in an HR book would be as the outfits would be too scandalous to wear in public.

Plotline 2: The MCs are theatre actors and the secondary characters in a play. The MMC is extremely famous and almost the face of the theatre though he always gets the villain/antagonist roles instead of the male lead because of his harsh handsome looks and terrible public reputation. The theatre owner worries the MMC's hot temper and rudeness has people hoping for his downfall and that the audience would not want to spend any money on his plays. The boss' suggestion is to have the FMC fake a romantic relationship with the MMC to improve his reputation because hers is spotless. She gets paid the theatre profits for having to put up with him. It is a fake relationship which we see in HR occasionally.

The plotlines I mentioned above are existing contemporary romance books.

Edit: For anyone curious, the books I mentioned above are Well Met by Jen DeLuca and Act Like It by Lucy Parker.

I was re-reading parts of {The Woes of Wooing a Wife in 12 Days by Mihwa Lee} because of how hilarious (and sad) they are. The language reads as a little too modern, though, and there are a lot of meta elements (and occasional discrepancies) but I find it an enjoyable read. This is one of the books with the MMC leaving/separating from his new wife right after they got married (and apparently during the wedding breakfast) and ignoring her for the next 2 years until his own carelessness brings him back to her for 'forced proximity' (and the author even has a character use that term).

Turns out, I have read A LOT of books with that plot, including:

• {A Wicked Kind of Husband by Mia Vincy} - arranged marriage, the MCs had an agreement of living separate lives and ran into other by pure chance 2 years later
• {Lord of Darkness by Elizabeth Hoyt} - arranged marriage to save the FMC's reputation, the MCs then live separate celibate lives due to their respective heartbreaks, the FMC goes to her husband 2 years later because she wants a child
• {The Rakehell of Roth by Amalie Howard} - arranged marriage to save the FMC from an abusive marriage, the MMC leaves the next day and she goes to him after having had enough of reading his name in the unsavoury headlines 3 years later
• {Wed by Proxy by Alice Coldbreath} - politically arranged marriage by proxy (and forced under threat of death for the MMC) and neither MC had seen each other until 4 years had passed (so this is not the same as the other examples), the FMC finally decides to take a step towards creating her own life and meet her husband
• {Heart in the Highlands by Heidi Kimball} - arranged marriage but both are happy with it, the MMC leaves her for 4.5 years the next day with just a letter because of his hatred of his father and fears of being his pawn
• {The Beast Takes a Bride by Julie Anne Long} - arranged marriage by the MMC who paid off her family's debts, he left her the next day for Spain because he thought she was unfaithful and returned 5 years later because he will be getting a title
• {The Earl in my Bed by Stacy Reid} - arranged marriage, the MMC left her for 6 years because of her father's actions and she has had enough so she wants to cause enough scandal for him to divorce her
• {A Tartan Love by Nichole Van} - secret love marriage, the MMC enlists less than two weeks later and the two do not see each other for 7 years because their parting was not amicable (and the separation was also not their choice)
• {His Forgotten Bride by Aydra Richards} - secret love marriage, the MMC gets in an accident a few days later and gets amnesia and his father believes (and convinces the FMC) that his son tricked her into a sham marriage because there is no solid proof of it, she runs into him 7 years later when she gets referred to work for him
• {My Darling Mr Darling by Aydra Richards} - arranged marriage as part of the teenaged FMC's father's will, the MMC has her sent to a finishing school the next day which turned out to be horribly abusive , she runs away while she is still breathing and spends the next 8 years evading her repentant husband

I am specifically looking for physical abandonment (in that the MMC goes away and lives a separate life) rather than emotional separation. I find it frustrating when it is a single misunderstanding and supposedly mature MCs making a life-changing decision while emotionally overwrought. You should wait to calm down before doing something drastic!

This is specifically about one MC asking the other person 'Could/Will you forgive me?' for something the former had done. The apologies I've read are usually along the lines of:

• 'I am sorry'
• 'I would like to apologise/offer my regrets'
• 'I wish to make amends for what I have done'
• 'Perhaps in time/I hope you will be able to forgive me'
• 'I don't deserve you but I will work hard to become the person that does'
• 'I was wrong/a fool/made a huge mistake'
• 'I will not ask for forgiveness yet when I have done so little to deserve it but...'

Rather than a statement of how they wronged the other and offering apologies, I wanted to see books in which the MC outright asks the other if they are truly forgiven.

At the top of my head, the only example I could think of was from {A Bride for the Prizefighter by Alice Coldbreath} when >!the MCs finally talk how the MMC behaved at the terrible wedding ceremony. He knows he behaved horribly and says: 'I hate that I did that. Can you forgive me, sweetheart?'. This was in the epilogue, though.!< Earlier in the book, the MMC had once asked 'Am I forgiven?' which I suppose could count but not exactly in the same way.

I read {Morning Glory by LaVyrle Spencer} and saw the 1993 film adaptation recently so I like how the MMC realises that when the FMC >!throws an egg into his face in anger and he comes to the conclusion that she did it because she cares about him.!< It makes sense in context and the characters even bring it up later. The realisation also comes at a time when the MCs' have known each other a few months but their relationship is still platonic with very little physical touch between them.

On the other side, you have the MMC of {The Unlovely Bride by Alice Coldbreath} claiming he fell in love with her when she >!showed him her pox-marked face and eyelids under her veils!< which she does not believe since it was at their first proper meeting and neither liked each other.

I would be interested in recommendations in which the MCs truly have ridiculous reasons or moments for realising they love the other.

We see a lot of MCs who lash out at their loved one(s) and say things in anger that they do not mean. What are you favourite books for characters who (figuratively) growl and roar at the other but it is clear their heart is not in it and they wish they could deal with their emotions differently.

Think characters who encapsulate 'I hate you, don't leave me' (but not the BPD book) as an example.

The FMCs I thought of were from {A Dangerous Kind of Lady by Mia Vincy} and {My Darling Mr Darling by Aydra Richards}. The former puts forward a proud and aloof demeanour, acting like she is not emotionally affected and hurting the other MC to protect her own feelings. The latter faced horrific abuse as a teenager due to her husband's unwitting actions so she has found it easier to either run away when she is scared or feels threatened or to use her sharp words to keep people away.

The two MMCs that came to my mind were from {Love Practically by Nichole Van} and {Trusting Miss Trentham by Emily Larkin} and the FMC even used the exact phrase in the former when thinking about it. Both MMCs are also former soldiers who have PTSD and both FMCs in the books are nurturing 'spinsters' who act maternally towards the other.

I just read {Morning Glory by LaVyrle Spencer} and will likely always associate quince pies with the book and characters. The FMC is very good at making those and the MMC loves desserts.

Are there any other dishes that you strongly associate with a book (or multiple books)? Or vice versa?

For me, when I think of syllabub, I think of how much the FMC in {A Beastly Kind of Earl by Mia Vincy} loves them.​

And then gingerbread plays a role in the plot of {His Forgotten Bride by Aydra Richards}. It is to a lesser extent but I also think of the unwell characters in her books like {My Darling, Mr Darling} and {The Marquess Wins a Wife} when I think of beef tea because of how much they dislike the sickbed fare.

The beginning of {A Tartan Love by Nichole Van} has the children of feuding families bonding over clootie cake and it just happens to be both of their birthdays. So that was a sweet moment and the teenaged MMC ate it exactly like you'd expect a teenage boy to.

And, on the other side, the MMC and his retinue in {Radiance by Grace Draven} are tough, hardy warriors but are no match for the might of the disgustingly loathsome, larva-like... potato. The FMC realises just how much food preferences vary in their species, especially when the MMC's culture celebrates by cutting into what is their equivalent of a live scorpion pie.

I am sure there are a lot of food dishes I associate with Alice Coldbreath's {Brides of Karadok} books but I really cannot recall them other than egg possets in {An Ill-Made Match}.

I like reading about people enjoying their well-described food, especially if they were hungry.

This is not about you subjectively finding an MMC irritating or frustrating but the FMC and other characters' attitude towards him. Yes, you can also find him annoying but if you wish for an MMC to be both punched and given a hug, I'd call that a realistic characterisation 😂

Examples of MMCs I mean:

{A Wicked Kind of Husband by Mia Vincy} - the (chronologically) previous book has this MMC described as managing to offend everyone in an entire room within the short time he was there. My favourite part was the FMC shoving a handful of Turkish delight into his mouth to shut up his nonsense and then take advantage of it by agreeing to some stuff on his behalf when he cannot respond.

{A Week to be Wicked by Tessa Dare} - the embodiment of YOLO, the MMC loves spewing tall tales about his and the FMC's circumstances and teasing her for not going out of her comfort zone to take risks. He even wrote out a list of women's names beginning with the same letter as the FMC's so he can deliberately call her the wrong thing and pretend he does not remember her name.

{The Marquess Wins a Wife by Aydra Richards} - he is in pain recovering from a bullet wound>!and alcohol withdrawal!<but gives the household a tough time with his tantrums, threats to have the FMC hanged and extravagant demands. The FMC is already dealing with three youths and now has a 33-year-old spoilt brat on her hands.

{My Deceitful Duchess by Aydra Richards} - the FMC even says about him in the next book that 'one does get used to him eventually'. This MMC was portrayed as neurodivergent and makes many social gaffes just during his first meeting with the FMC and she wonders if she should be disturbed by his behaviour.

{The Favourite by Alice Coldbreath} - the MMC is like a child pulling the pigtails of the girl he likes and she dislikes his presence in the Queen's chambers because he singles her out for his teasing. His first appearance in this book has him bemoan that he wasted his eye-catching tunic and painful shoes and practice of an annoying sonnet the previous night because his Lady Disapproval is not there that day to roll his eyes at him.

Bonus points if the FMC's internal monologue has her even (humorously) contemplating violence against him, like wanting to push him off the train they are in.

This was something I noticed in a few books but I first recall it in {Slightly Dangerous by Mary Balogh}. The MMC in that is a famously icy and stoic duke and he finds himself attracted to an effervescent poor widow. She is conscious of all the class (and other) differences between them and rejects his overtures and requests. At one point, he says 'I am a man as well as a duke' and, like the FMC, I had been thinking of him as his title and reputation and responsibilities. So this was when it struck the FMC that this cold, proud, stern man... is a man. And he was hurt by things she said, despite seeming like he was above them all.

Other examples:

{A Beastly Kind of Early by Mia Vincy} - the MMC's first wife died under suspicious conditions and his father-in-law paid actors to spread slander about him (involving demon worship and witchcraft) which was only aided by the scars on his face. The FMC does not like him at this point but is sad to hear about his loss and tells him 'You're just a man' (i.e. not the monster the public makes you out to be).

{Lord of Darkness by Elizabeth Hoyt} - the MCs both lost their first loves and were married as arranged by the FMC's brother to protect her reputation and they lived apart for two years. When she comes to her husband's place because she needs something, she had been thinking of him as a vague entity rather than a man with feelings and hurts. So she feels quite bad later in the book when he calls her out on it as she had been betraying him in a manner.

{One Burning Heart by Elizabeth Kingston} - the MCs have been married for 6 years and despise each other. Their relationship starts improving slowly though they still do not trust the other. The MMC's older sister mistakes his actions for abusive behaviour and pins him to a wall in anger to stop that. He is horrified at what his sister thought of him and is still upset at night when he goes to his wife's room. He expects she will preach and sermonise about their sins but she gently gives him their first mutual kiss. After that, it is an inconvenience for her to realise that the husband she is supposed to hate is a man with his own dreams and pain.

This works if the MMC is especially emotionally closed-off and aloof because nobody would expect him of getting hurt by seemingly trivial comments or matters.

I am reading {Trusting Miss Trentham by Emily Larkin} and, at one point, the FMC looks at the MMC (who is recovering from a terrible PTSD-driven nightmare and looking very vulnerable with tears in his lashes) and gets the strongest urge to hug him to make him feel better. Given their relationship up till this point, that would not be appropriate but she does act in a mothering manner to him like scolding him to eat more food.

I am sure MMCs would not appreciate a woman seeing them as a pitiful little sweetie or 'oh, you poor baby!' 😂 But then there is a reason why the Florence Nightingale effect is popular in fiction. Anyway, can you think of examples in other books that have the MMC bring out some mothering response in the FMC? Those can be comical as well.

Some examples of what I was referring to:

{The Lord I Left by Scarlett Peckham} - the FMC finds out the MMC's secret and her inner monologue is her wanting to scold him for being too hard on himself and take him to the kitchen so she can feed him sweets and then give him a massage. She even gets angry at his father's cruel words about him and proclaims in front of his family that the MMC has a lot of female fans who find him sexy.

{The Devil Is a Marquess by Elisa Braden} - the FMC does not like her new husband but cannot find it in herself to leave him alone or in pain while he is going through delirium tremens. Unlike the staff who tell him to his face that they would not care if he would die, she gets him water, cleans his sweating face and tries to comfort him and make his temporary living quarters comfortable.

{A Most Forgettable Girl by Alice Coldbreath} - the MCs do not like each other when they are ordered to marry by the Queen as part of one of her caprices. The FMC's heart goes out to her new husband upon seeing him so uncomfortable and terrified at the thought of the court jester focusing on him (as the groom) ​that she promises to protect him from the jester's mockery and he clings onto her in terror to save him.

There are a lot of books focusing on estranged couples reconciling after one abandoned the other or they had a mutual agreement to live separately. I was curious about those books with married couples in which both MCs dislike the other but are not living separately.

This does not include books in which one MC wants nothing to do with the other while the other likes or has no problem with them.

One of the only ones I can think of is {One Burning Heart by Elizabeth Kingston}. The MCs were married for 6 years at the start of the book and hate having to touch each other and do 'their duty' a couple of times a year. They have separate bedchambers but are the Lord and lady of the land so they have to live in the same place. The MMC was mentioned off-handedly as having a mistress (which the FMC would likely be so thankful for) until the physician tells him he needs to spend more time with his wife if they want an heir. So he now is entirely focused on his wife even while he wishes he and his best friend could do a wife switch. For her part, she dislikes him as a war-instigating leader and has convinced almost everyone that she is an obsequious holy fool so she flies under the radar with her religious schemes. She causes him embarrassment with her loud sermons and preaching.

Otherwise {An Inconvenient Vow by Alice Coldbreath} matches. He dislikes her for basically trapping him into marriage otherwise his reputation suffers; she dislikes him because she thinks he was involved in the plan that would ruin her sister's chances of marriage. He makes her sleep on an uncomfortable truckle bed in his trophy room after their wedding. She is relieved because then she does not have to sleep with him. They are both quite a pair together.

Edit: Since all recommendations here have to have an HEA, the relationship HAS to improve and blossom into genuine affection.

Not all romantic gestures need to be... well, romantic. At least objectively. Some can be downright bizarre or creepy but succeed in the goal because it fits the characters.

The MCs in {Love is For the Birds by Deborah M. Hathaway} are bird enthusiasts. The MC >!loses a bet with the FMC and!< does the mating dance of the sandhill crane to woo the FMC. He was seen as a rather dignified and learned man so him waving his arms up and jumping in the air in a twist has the FMC giggling in embarrassment and probably some delight. I thought it worked well and reminded me of those videos with people asking why individuals don't woo each other like birds.

For creepy/weird, think something discomfiting like Beetlejuice giving teenaged Lydia a ring to marry him... while it is still on his ex-wife's disembodied finger. It would creep me out but if the MC likes it, it will count.

Dowries play a big role in marriages even in the present day in several parts of the world. In HR, dowries largely seem to involve money or land and are a main reason for someone to pursue the FMC. In fact, that may be why the MMC did actually pursue her or agree to an arranged marriage.

In those books, refusing to accept the dowry (i.e. the reason they married the FMC) is treated like a sign of true love or the MMC developing deeper feelings outside of mercenary matters. This is even stronger if the MMC did need the dowry for practical reasons. A few examples came to mind:

{The Unlovely Bride by Alice Coldbreath} - the FMC promises the MMC that her father will hand over her massive dowry to her husband because she wants him to quickly marry her before she gets sent to a convent or arranged into a pity marriage (after the pox lost her the reputation as the court beauty). He accepts because he has plans for the money. >!Although he is still gruff and rude, he suddenly says he is all right with not getting her dowry and actually weighed the likelihood of getting it before he accepted her proposal. The reason he gives is because he refuses to accept money from someone who had rather wished she had died (because she was no longer considered beautiful) instead of celebrated her recovery.!<

{The Devil Is a Marquess by Elisa Braden} - the dissolute MMC has been brought down very low by this time and has to deal with his deceased father's debts and profligate mother's bad decisions. The rich, rich, rich father of the FMC offers to settle the debts and pay him a lot of money to marry his only daughter and double that if they have a son within a year or so. He agrees after some deliberation and the FMC decides to make the most of being married to the infamous London rake that nobody likes. >!She knows about the first part of the dowry but not the part about the child so that crushes her at first because the MMC did not mention it to her. In the end, the MCs have both become self-sufficient and their land is doing well so the MMC refuses the father's attempts to make him take the dowry money. The FMC still wants her chunk of the promised allowance, though. Smart woman.!<

{Heart in the Highlands by Heidi Kimball} - the arranged marriage between the MCs seemed to start out well... until he left her in his highland estate with just a letter and she did not respond to any of his letters for years. He returns to find her living in a cottage her grandfather owned and she had barely spent any of the allowance his solicitor made sure she had. >!She is justifiably furious at her desertion and the excuses he is ashamed of making but it does soothe her a little when he says he did not spend a penny of her dowry while he was away.!<

What else can you think of in which this serves as a big romantic gesture? Or even a casual aside comment.

I feel that writing about an intelligent or even genius MC that the other characters (or author) hype up has the potential to come across as telling, not showing. After all, romance books would need some element of character foibles to get the plot somewhere and love seems like a convenient justification for the occasional noble idiocy or plain stupidity.

What I am looking for is when MCs are touted as being scarily brilliant or intelligent or even a threat to others because of their Machiavellian abilities but then they make some massive blunders or bone-headed moves, especially when a loved one is involved. The kind that has you wonder: 'Are you not supposed to be smarter/more observant than this?' The loved one does not have to be the other MC.

I was reading one of Elisa Braden's books and a character is written like a threat because of how intelligent he is (both in terms of education and shrewdness) and able to ferret out people's secrets and practically read their minds. Threatening enough. By the time his own book came out, he had fallen on hard times and (even more) drinking but works to overcome those with the other MC. I suppose that developing genuine feelings and finding them scary and unfamiliar serves as an excuse for some very stupid moves towards the other MC. Intelligence clearly does not extend to emotional intelligence here. And I'm sure you all know which character I'm talking about. 😂

I know there is a whole category of revenge marriages/relationships done by supposedly intelligent MCs so those count as well. Let me know who else you can think of!

Even if it is for a short time, what are the most heartbreaking instances of one MC believing the other is gone for ever? I read two examples in which I genuinely felt (for a few moments) that the author might actually kill off an MC for the shocking moments (and then remembered I was reading a romance book so that should ideally not happen).

{The Work of Art by Mimi Matthews} - >!the MMC has been paranoid about his wife's initial intended planning revenge on her and tightened the security and restrictions for her at their new home. The FMC gets badly hurt and he finds her bleeding and without a pulse with her loyal dog beside her, leading to an agonised cry of heartbreak from the stoic MMC. The last thing he'd said to her had been sullen and angry so that is double the pain.!<

{A Heart Sufficient by Nichole Van} - >!the MCs' dinghy capsizes and they are thrown into the water. The MMC desperately dives into the water repeatedly to find his wife to no avail and starts breaking out into sobs as the minutes go by. Their marriage up till now (and even their relationship before) had been very strained and even hostile. The MMC almost drowns because he gives up once he believes he's lost her and bitterly regrets his behaviour towards her, hoping they can meet in the next life on happier terms!<

There does not have to be the regret about the parting words but I think that usually accompanies.

I mean things like:

• The MMC in {An Inconvenient Vow by Alice Coldbreath} telling his wife she has strong, sturdy hair like rope while he is wrapping her plait round his arm. It is not bad as a compliment on its own except that he utters it so unexpectedly while they are still awkward with each other
• The MMC in {When a Girl Loves an Earl by Elisa Braden} trying to compliment her and takes advice given by another but his comments only come out as creepy. If I recall correctly, she thinks he is comparing her to the livestock they pass by (which are not attractive as comparisons)
• The MMC in {A Wicked Kind of Husband by Mia Vincy} telling his wife she is beautiful like a rose, obviously wanting to compliment her when she is dressed up. She loves roses but thinks he considers them a waste of time so it makes her feel unhappier. It was also the first time he had complimented her and following another rough period in their marriage so even he realises that was a clumsy attempt.

You can also include what was meant to be an insult but the MC took it as a compliment. Example:

• The MMC in {A Most Forgettable Girl by Alice Coldbreath} says he used to see her as a flaunting siren (who was tempting him) and she LOVES it. Later, in a fit of anger, he lashes out at her and calls her a hardened flirt. He apologises for it but she decides to take it in a positive manner.
• The MMC in {The Scandal of the Season by Aydra Richards} nicknames her Mouse as an insult because she seems shy and nondescript but she starts to like it when he utters it with affection later on. She considers 'Mouse' to be the more fearless and bold persona of hers that does whatever she wants.