u/Jaco-Jimmerson

Image 1 — How a Non-Marvel character (Engineer) will affect the Rivals meta.
Image 2 — How a Non-Marvel character (Engineer) will affect the Rivals meta.
Image 3 — How a Non-Marvel character (Engineer) will affect the Rivals meta.
▲ 3 r/rivals

How a Non-Marvel character (Engineer) will affect the Rivals meta.

I've made a controversial decision to make Engineer a strategist. The reason for this change is because of the quantity of utility he provides to the team, which is more abundant than any other category would provide. It would make much more sense if he was a strategist under these conditions, and only one of his deployables will have a slight modification to them.

Rules

  1. Engineer's health will be multiplied by 2
  2. All hitscan weapons can headshot (damage to the head matches critical-hit logic)
  3. Every character will have a cool down ability based off their items
  4. Every character will have an ultimate based off a game changing cool down

Engineer

  • HP: 250 (From 125)
  • Passive: Eureka Effect. (Use the Eureka Effect to teleport back to spawn, or teleport to the teleporter-exit). Scrap Metal (Engineer has 200 metal, this can be used to create buildings, repair/upgrade deployables, and repair friendly deployables. +25 metal regenerated every 1 second).
  • Weapons: Rescue Ranger (Fires a special bolt that can repair friendly deployables [including ultimate deployables], Right-Click Use 100 metal to pick up your targeted building from long range, [Long-range 4 shells]). Wrench (Melee weapons used for creating, repairing [including ultimate deployables], and upgrading deployables ).

Sentry Gun

  • Using 130 metal, Build a sentry gun with 225hp, (Lv1 a small gun with a steady fire-rate.)
  • 200 metal to upgrade to 270hp*, (Lv2 a slightly taller build with dual miniguns and a fast fire-rate.)*
  • 200 metal to upgrade for 315hp. (Lv3 even taller build, now with 4 rockets that deal 150 damage up close.)
  • Can be picked up and relocated

Dispencer

  • Using 100 metal, Build a healing station with 225hp, healing teammates at a 3m radius >!That's the 300% dispencer range upgrade from MVM, for reference!<. (Lv1 heals 15hp per second [regenerates 40 metal a second for Engineer].)
  • 200 metal to upgrade to 270hp*. (Lv2 heals 23 hp per second [regenerates 50 metal a second for Engineer].)*
  • 200 metal to upgrade for 315hp, (Lv3 heals 30hp per second. [regenerates 60 metal a second for Engineer].)
  • can be picked up and relocated.

Teleporters

  • Using 50 metal each, place a teleporter entrance and exit both with 225hp for you and the team to use. (10 seconds cooldown.)
  • 200 metal to upgrade for 270hp. (5 seconds cooldown.)
  • 200 metal to upgrade for 315hp. (3 seconds cooldown.)
  • can be picked up and relocated

Ultimate

  • Frontier Upgrade. Use the Eureka effect to upgrade your Rescue Ranger, into the Frontier Justice. A hit-scan shotgun that stores critical-hits based on past eliminations from the Sentry Gun throughout the current round. (Sentry Gun final hit=2 crits, Sentry Gun assist=1 crit, maximum stored crits is 35.) [Mid*-range 3 shells].*
  • Permanently upgrades all of the buildings that were created by Engineer to Lv3. (And for 10 seconds, boosts all Lv3 buildings, Sentry Gun shoots 30% faster, Dispenser heals 75hp per second at a 6m radius [regenerates 70 metal a second for Engineer], Teleporter cooldown time decreased to 1 second.)

Team-Up

I'm going to be real with you here, there are many different potential Team-ups Engineer can join up with in the Marvel cast. You can go Engi and Invis and even that would makes sense somehow.

The closet ones I could think of is Engineer and Iron Man, where engi has his own mech suit, based on his Sentry Gun design. Engineer and Namor, where Namor throws out two teleported loafs of bread, to fight players with as his "melee minions" along side the squids. Engineer lore wise would be versatile. so I made this lore out the entire fake season for him

Dell Conagher is working with the smartest minds in the Marvel Comics Universe to reach past the Marvel Multiverse Barrier and Teleport back to the Valve Multiverse. Dell forages technologies similar to ones used in Mann Co. Substituting Australium with Vibranium, it may lack youth properties, but it does hold much sturdier than the former. Will Tem Fortress find their ways back to Valve, or disintegrate slowly in the Marvel Multiverse?

Outcome

Short term

Players in quickplay will struggle to figure out how engi would work. Players would have to use him as tripple support, or have him be used with Peni Parker. Teleporters will be a liability for the team and cause them to lose because players will fight over it, or because it didn't get upgraded to Lv3. Engineer players will forget to build dispencers to actually be a support and heal people, expect a balance change where the Rescue Ranger heals players directly for 60hp.

Long Term

Engineer has effectively replaced strange, and destroyed the dive comp and the flying comp. Now a new composition is created, Peni, Namor, Engi. Players will be begging for nerfs on Engineer, or buffs to hitscan characters to defeat this setup. This defensive build is nothing but a pure nightmare to fight against. You need a shooter to attack the front-line yes, but the teleporter could quickly reinforce the front-line. A dive character is needed, because the teleporter entrance (Best case scenario to defeat the engineer's setup. As an engi main myself.) needs to go down, but with the current map designs for this game the, Sentry Gun could theoretically cover multiple spots if not all spots if placed correctly. Engineer in the Celestial rank or above will be perma-banned for the foreseeable future.

Engineer is an S tier support, without even needing to focus solely on heals.

Engineer would be a 4 star hero because setting up his buildings takes time and map knowledge.

Engineer 9v9 gameplay for reference.

u/Jaco-Jimmerson — 2 days ago
▲ 59 r/rivals

How a Non-Marvel character (Heavyweapons) will affect the Rivals meta

If you've seen this before. all I can say is that I have unfortunate timing. 6 days ago was the worst possible time to do this. It's kinda a soft reset, but I have my next post ready tomorrow before noon. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Rules

  1. Heavy's health will be multiplied by 2
  2. All hitscan weapons can headshot (headshot damage will follow critical-hit damage values from Team Fortress 2.)
  3. Every character will have a cool down ability based off their items
  4. Every character will have an ultimate based off a game changing cool down

Heavyweapons

  • HP: 600 (From 300)
  • Passive: Crowd Control Immune once the Minigun is fully spun up. 20% Reduced damage taken when at half health and spun up.
  • Weapons: Minigun (Rapid firing, Long-range heavy machine gun. Right-click first to spin the minigun before firing. Left-click first, spins minigun faster and reduces firing accuracy by 20%. *"*She weighs 150 kg and fires $200 custom tool cartridges at 10,000 rounds per minute. It costs $400,000 [$3,079,541; adjusted for inflation] to fire this weapon, for 12 seconds! Infinite bullets), Shotgun (mid-range 6 shells)
  • Ability 1: Sandvich, ( Left-click to stand idle and Heal yourself to 600 hp periodically, with every munch of the sandwich. Right-click to to throw the sandwich for any players on both sides to use as a health pack) :30 second cooldown:
  • Ability 2: Dalokohs Bar: (Left-click stand idle to grant 150 hp or +75 shield [if on max health] chewing the snack. Right-click throw the snack for any players on both sides to heal 150 hp or +75 shield [if on max health]) :10 second cooldown:
  • Ability 3: Steak Sandvich: (Left-click stand idle to gain movement speed and +35% damage but stuck with fists for 16 seconds. Right-click throw the snack for any players on both sides to grant +35% damage bonus for 16 seconds) :30 second cooldown:
  • Ultimate: Knockback rage. (Minigun gets upgraded to slow down and push back enemies upon getting hit, by the bullets. 10 second ultimate.)

Team-Up

Exiled Intellects

>Magneto (Anchor)

>Heavyweapons

>!Trapped in a thick plastic polymer confinement Erik, unable to escape confinement like he's done many times in his life, now has to play along with his captors. He's seen it all, their faces, their sadistic torture towards mutantkind, their hidden prejudice. !<

>!A new face was invited, maybe not, because that man, before the door kept repeating "Access Denied, Access Denied, Access Denied, Access De-" That man dug in has fat fingers into the door, and pried it open. He was a wide tall silhouette of a man, of fat and muscle, a walking mass, maybe even a sumo wrestler who could possibly go even with the Silver Samurai. Out of the shadow, reveals, A balding bearded gentle giant, covered in the blood of Erik's captors.!<

>!"Are you the man who moves objects with mind?" The big individual inquired.!<

>!"That begs the question, what types of objects?" Erik quizzed, "A small riddle for you stranger, If my mind can move anything made of solids do you think I would be resting here?"!<

>!Misha bangs the hard clear plastic "Don't play games with me!" Annoyed, he turned away ready to leave the facility. It then his bandolier started rattling, Sasha started vibrating, his cartridges slid out of Misha's person, and his Sasha started levitating out of his hands. With the speed of a jet, Sasha was driven into the plastic destroying Eric's confinement.!<

>!"Hmm, I guess this was the type of object I can move with my mind." Erik answered sarcastically.!<

>!Misha, shook to his bone, realizing the true power of what he has freed "You... You are crazy! No matter, Team Fortress, needs you!" Erik, with no choice but to follow along decides to entertain this new path. "Team Fortress needs metal for Engineer and Avengers people, to put teleport for home! Will you find more metal with Heavy?"!<

>!"I Magneto do not have a choice in that matter, thanks to you. So I'll play along, until you're home... I see you're mad at me for destroying your gun?" Erik, used his powers to repair the horribly beathen Sasha. "But first YOU must fight our ways out of here, an easy task for someone like you no?"!<

  • Magneto: Unreturning Firepower. Request assistance from Heavyweapons, to fire bullets into his magnetic field for 12 seconds. Then releasing a barrage of hits-scan bullets, in a spread the size of Metallic Curtain. The more bullets shot into the magnetic field the longer Magneto's return-fire lasts (12 seconds max). :24 second cooldown:

Possible Outcome

Short Term

Many DPS plays, mainly Punisher players, will find themselves playing Heavy, that's because of the infinite ammo, and his high healthpoints. This guy looks like a decent front-liner, were heals are gonna be funneled into him. Some will call him a permanent Punisher Ult as a hero, maybe (sniffs*) maybe. I have yet to mention how slow Heavy is when spun up however. Or that he has a spin up time before firing mind you. It is unknown if Heavy will be easy to dive against, but knowing his track record in TF2, face to face combat is a bad idea against this guy. (in close range he eats your hp like it's nothing!)

Long Term

We got breaking news: A tragedy for three heroes and one evil AI, all of which have been found dead! Storm, Iron-Man, Human Torch, and Ultron were all found shot out of the sky by a Maniac Russian Mercenary, any whereabouts of this individual needs to be reported to Netease for further Nerfing. Thinking about it maybe A good Heavy player can replace Tankpool, but IDK about that. He lacks shields, but in turn can heal his team to full HP with a sandwich, he provides small buffs, but IDK if that's enough for Celestial players and above or will even be recognized by the lower ranks.

Heavyweapons Might look like a C tier, depending on the Rivals comp.

Heavy is also going to be a 2 star.

Heavy in 9v9 Gameplay

>!Editor's note, I'll go to my previous posts and add video gameplay for visual purposes be on the lookout for that soon.!<

u/Jaco-Jimmerson — 4 days ago
▲ 15 r/rivals

How a Non-Marvel Character (Demoman) will affect the Rivals meta.

Rules

  1. Demoman's health will be multiplied by 2
  2. All hitscan weapons can headshot (Mixing the weapon's critical-hit damage, with Rivals logic. There's only one weapon Demoman has that can deal critical-hit and it's melee.)
  3. Every character will have a cool down ability based off their items
  4. Every character will have an ultimate based off a game changing cool down

Demoman

  • HP: 350 (from 175)
  • Passive: blast damage knocks enemies and self, reduced self-inflicted blast damage by 30%. +20% extra damage towards structures,deployables, summons, and barriers/shields.
  • Weapons: Grenade Launcher (grenades that tumble on the floor then explodes dealing 40 damage, deals 100 damage on impact, 4 shots) Stickybomb Launcher (sticky grenades detonates on right-click, hold left-click to increase projectile firing range, 8 shots, can place 8 bombs maximum in-world.)
  • Ability 1: Loose Canon (flint-lock conversion). Cannonballs have a fuse time of 1 second; fuses can be primed to explode earlier by holding down the left-click. Double Donk! Bomb explosions after a cannon ball impact will deal +35% extra damage to impact victims :8 seconds. +1 second cooldown time regained by damaging enemies in general:
  • Ability 2: Demoknight. (Transforms Demoman into a melee focused "Demoknight." Granted a slow swinging greatsword, and a shield for charging and bashing, moving 10% faster by default.)
  • Ultimate: Dynamite. (Demoman wields 5 bundles of dynamite each to throw, [240 damage on impact], when the bundle explodes it disperses into 6 smaller sticks of dynamite dealing half the damage but covering more ground through quantity. hold left-click to increase throwing range.)

Demoknight

  • Passive: Head Count. (melee KOs collect heads, heads increase maximum heath by +25, [can stack up to +125 maximum hp]. Melee KOs increase movement speed, [can stack up to +136% speed].) Bonuses remain even when transforming back to Demoman. Bonuses are lost after death. Splendid Screen. (Bashing the enemy with the shield deals impact damage [85 dmg]. Melee KOs {collecting heads} increase impact damage [to 136 maximum].
  • Weapons: Eyelander (Slow attacking greatsword, disables quick-melee, deals 65 damage by default.)
  • Ability 1: Chargin' Targe. (with lightly-reduced steering controls, charge into enemies with a powered up attack [+35% extra damage]. While charging: removes debuffs and grants crowd control immunity. A perfectly distanced charge attack and/or shield bashing the enemy, grants a critical-hit [195 damage for example]. ) :12 second cooldown, +8 seconds cooldown time regained after Melee KO:
  • Ability 2: Demoman. (Transforms Demoknight into a more traditional "Demoman." Granted two Primary weapons that shoot explosive projectiles.)
  • Ultimate: Ullapool Caber. (Switch melee weapon into a stick grenade, normally used for throwing, but instead is used for hitting people. On hit, will explode both you and the enemy dealing 240 damage, and launching the user into the air. Can use Chargin' Targe while in Ultimate form [dealing 35% extra damage or a critical-hit].)

Team-up

Demonic Scottish Squirrels

>Demoman (anchor)

>Magik

>Squirrel Girl

>!After saving New York City from Dracula, Kingpin, and even zombies at one point. Squirrel Girl and Magik decides to do a mini girl's night out at a bar in Times Square. Doreen Green gets herself a seltzer water to down the infinite acorns she still has in her pockets, while Illyana Rasputin orders the hard stuff, made from the true motherland of her place. "I wonder why everyone is still living in New York City after everything that's happened here?" The effects are kicking in, as evident by Illyana's philosophical question. "Well that's easy it's because of us heroes! We kick the butts of the bad guys and people go all 'Woohoo, thank you saving us lady with a big tail, and the lady with a big fire sword!' That's why they stay!" Doreen answers clueless to Illyana's side effects. "America is a big place." Illyana disputed "They could just go to Los Angles, Kansas City, or whatever state exists." Across the table a man was heard yelling from afar. "Ohh, n' don't forget! Dracula and ye vampires are a bunch of b%&%*$&$^$%%$$^&$^... burrrrrrrrrrpppp!" Tavish Finnegan DeGroot heard the coversation, or didn't because he wasn't facing them, he's speaking to his sword leaning on the cushioned seat slouched on the dining table standing. The girls turned to Tavish, Doreen wanting to assist him. "I think you had a bit too much today." Doreen responded squeamishly. "What's your address?" Tavish stood straight up and sprinted towards the ladies ready to squabble. "TOO MUCH!? HUH LASSIES!? THIS IS NOT TOO MUCH! THIS WEE CANS YOU CALL YE HARD STUFF IN BARELY GIVING YE BUZZ. BLOODY CURSED APPLE! ALWAYS WITH YE WEAK STUFF! MY POOR POOR LIVER, STARVING FOR YE REAL THING!" Tavish slumps downward and cries on the floor, then proceeds to relieve himself, while Illyana looked closely at his table at a distance to see thirty-eight empty drinks piled up. "Judging by your attitude I bet that you don't have enough money to pay for the bill." She barked. "WELL MAKE THE PURCHASE THEN, YOUR YE HERO HERE, YOU HAVE MONEY IN YE POCKETS FOR YOU TO RUN EM ALL! BUY THAT s+$& FOR ME!" The slumped over Sword hyped up Tavish in the middle of his argument."Yes buy it all! Cover our bills!" Illyana saw through the wasted facade of the man, but wanted to direct everyone's attention to something else. "Did that thing just, talk?" She asked in a vacuum "Oh my god you have a crazy magical sword too!?" Doreen saw an opportune time to deescalate the tension. "Well my fried over here also has a big crazy magical sword just like yours!" Tavish stood back up interested, "Ohh realeh?" Doreen continued, "Uhh huuuuuuhhhhh, but it's all made of fire, and it doesn't actually burn anything on earth because it's soul-fire which is all demonic and she's a demon queen and stuff, you two have a lot in common don't you guys think so? You guys are all kinda like 'rich in respect but not in money' kind of people!" Tavish, not only approved, but was also 'DeGroot Keep' impressed with Illyana. Speaking of which, Illyana set the record straight. "If you want to pay your bill, you will work only as a mercenary with us in this next up coming mission. Got it?" "Aye!" Tavish violently shaked Illyana's hand, ready to work his fourth job along side earth's mightiest heroes. "I didn't need your help Y'know! I can make es purchase already, but my money is in ye other universe. Y'Know?" His Mum would still not be proud of him.!<

  • Magik: Umbrial Tide-Turner. (With a press of a button, Instantly activate team-up ability to deploy the Tide-Turner upgrade on wearer. Temporarily Replenishes Umbrial Incursion cooldown for 6 seconds, grants full steering controls to Umbrial Incursion, replenishes Magik Slash if Umbrial Incursion damages the opponent under the Tider Turner upgrade.) :12 second cooldown:
  • Squirrel Girl: Explosive Tail Jump. (Tail Jump is now upgraded to deal an explosive damage of 120, improves air movement controls.)

Possible outcome

Short Term

Demoman looks like a 4 star character. On paper he seems powerful, in practice you need to be very skilled to get your hits in. Players will think he's easy to play but will struggle grain any value with Demoman. Especially in Demoknight form. However, the Magik team-up will make Me, Kingsman, and every Magik player on console appreciate Demoman. The combo potential on Magik is insane with his team-up. Expect another controversy from Kingsman a month after his release.

Long Term

This character will single-handedly control the entire lobby. Every Support Ult is losing to Stickybomb, EVERY SUPPORT ULT! "Us against the (KA-BOOOOOOOOMMMMM)-... Ohh they're gonna have to glue you back together, in Hel!" Demoman in mid-rank lobbies will get perma-banned alongside Penni-Parker. From Celestial1 to Top 500, Demo players will reach the front-lines faster than any hero in the game, Rivaling Spiderman, because of his Stickybomb Launcher. Realistically he has more surfaces to sticky jump from than, Soldier does with rocket jumps.

I'll give this character a B

u/Jaco-Jimmerson — 13 days ago
▲ 28 r/rivals

They are not ready for him. I've asked three streamers as of now, they are not ready for "HIM". They called him broken, one asked for Netease to not put that in the game ever, one them even said "Yeah that's Black Cat." Last I checked, he doesn't need combos to secure a kill. THEY ARE NOT, READY FOR HIM!!!

Important Update: I would love to take time to support posts that are doing similar concepts for r/Rivals, this time using the actual Marvel IPs (Insane for me to say that here lol). Here's one that I found who is also using a similar structure to mine, >!no I don't own any "structure" I'm not Nintendo!!< Wasp Character Concept. I would love to see more of these go on, and even a full on subreddit full of Marvel Rivals character concepts (hope to god they allow joke/what-if concepts).

Rules

  1. Pyro's health will be multiplied by 2
  2. All hitscan weapons can headshot (Mixing the weapon's critical-hit damage, with Rivals logic.)
  3. Every character will have a cool down ability based off their items
  4. Every character will have an ultimate based off a game changing cool down

New Duelist: Pyro

  • HP: 350 (From 175)
  • Passive: No lingering damage from fire sources, reduced fire element damage by 15%
  • Weapons: Flamethrower ( applies lingering fire damage onto enemies, afterburn time increases based on direct burn damage, close-range infinite ammo), Shotgun (mid-range 6 shells)
  • Ability 1: Airblast (Flamethrower right-click, shoots a gust of air, has 10 charges, think of Invisible Woman's push, Reflects projectiles [not including hitscan attacks]) :1 second cooldown per charge used, 3 seconds to recharge an airblast:
  • Ability 2: Flare gun (Shoot a flare gun projectile burning enemies at range, 90 damage on enemies already burning.) :4 second cooldown:
  • Ability 3: Thermal thruster: (Jetpack that starts with an automatic jump then a thrust.) :2 uses, :15 second cooldown:
  • Ability 4: Gas Passer. Throw a gas canister towards a surface creating a lingering gasoline cloud. Players that step through gets the inflammable debuff. Affected players ignite in afterburn if they take any damage. : 750 damage required to use cooldown ability:
  • Ultimate: Phlogistinator (For 10 seconds. Makes Flamethrower deal critical-hit damage, flames can pierce through shields, increased damage against armor type health.)

Team-up

Fur-ball, Firearms, Fire, and Fangs

>Pyro (Anchor)

>Deadpool

>Rocket Raccoon

>Jeff The Landshark

>!"Bahhh! This is so boring!" Deadpool whines over taking care of the cosmic creatures he just saved. "I really want to go back to killing and hunting things, like the old days, right Pyro?" The flame-proof human, was staring deeply into the burning matchstick. "Right... This person only cares about fire." Soon Wade Wilson hatched an idea. "Yo Pybro!" their attention turns towards Wade, "You see this cute looking Murder unicorn?" Deadpool shakes the balloon getting Pyro excited and jumpy. "I'm gonna set it here, and you light it up with something!" Pyro hovered the matchstick near the balloon, what came was a sudden loud burst as the balloon popped with sparkles of flame going everywhere. "RRRRRRRRGHHHH" A loud disgruntled growl can be heard from Jeff, now awake from his slumber walking to the source of the noise. Wade was ecstatic. "Ohh Jeffy! I've made a new friend from a game that's 17 years older than ours!" Jeff was confused. "This person is Pyro, the exact opposite of you, while you try to waterboard people, they COOK THEM ALIVE! And they also see the world like cotton candy and rainbows!" "Murr hurr hurrr." Jeff laughs maniacally at the thought of a new companion with similar interests. "So ughhh, a new team-up huh? this time with fire instead of water. Ohh boy the Rivals team is gonna struggle to balance this one. You know what,for s**ts and giggles, let's add Rocket to this."!<

  • Deadpool: Sharpened Volcano Fragment. (Remember that useless weapon? The one that works better for the Scout than Pyro? Okay, it's not all useless, given the fact that Medieval mode exists, who cares now, I have it! I have two of them now! I replace my good ol katanas, with two burning hot battleaxes! Every time I hit enemies with it, they take afterburn damage, the more I hit them, the more afterburn time they get. Combine it with Hazardous Hijinks, and they become explosive firebombs that have a nasty AOE effect. I can finally compete against Jean Grey in being the most annoying character!)
  • Jeff The Landshark: Backsplash-Burner. (Leave a trail of fire from Joyful Splash, critical-hits only when Joyful Splash attacks the opponents' back.)
  • Rocket Raccoon: Dragon's Fury. (Turns Repair Mode into Welding Mode, having 6 ammo instead. Creates a short range fire projectile, that heals or damages 95 hp, slow firing projectile with a two shot interval. The second shot fires faster if the first one lands on any player.)

Possible outcome

Short Term

18V18 will be a laggy mess, Impossible to play the game. 6v6 or comp in general. Pyro is not capable of helping out the team, knowing that Mag and Strange counters Pyro (keep that in mind.) The team-ups will encourage Jeff players to become dive healers again, DPSPool might actually see perma bans, Rocket Players will hate this team-up.

Long Term

Scarlet Witch mains are now Pyro mains. The afterburn plus flank and 350 HP makes them even more egregious to fight against. Players will complain about mindless W+M1 being an effective strategy. Strategists now have something to complain about. Especially Luna players, now that Pyro reflects Ice Ball, and airblasts Luna Ult off the Map. Mag and Iron Man found dead in an alleyway. They won't Overpowered yes, but there will be funny Airblast clips from Pyro or Pyro's entire kit in general.

If he was put into a tierlist they would be B tier.

Pyro is a 2 star character. TF2 players have expressed how annoying they are. Both with and against they are the lowest denominator for the team. I suspect Pyro will have a worse fate here, being yet another losing pick DPS. Like playing Scarlet into Mag, Strange, and Invis. Or playing Loki into Moon Knight.

u/Jaco-Jimmerson — 17 days ago