u/Jiaska

There is one scene during the Teal Mask that really rubbed me the wrong way, and made me truly dislike Carmine - not as a character, more how she functions as a plot device.

Quick recap of the festival and the morning after (Spoilers, obviously)

The PC and Kieran are at the festival together, then you find the Ogre Oustin' minigame. After a go at that, Carmine pressures Kieran into doing it himself.

While Kieran is gone, the PC and Carmine see Ogerpon, and the legendary drops her mask.

Kieran shows up, PC tries to share this news, but Carmine talks over them.

Kieran leaves believing that the PC and Carmine were talking about him behind his back. (Sidenote, Carmine didn't seem concerned about this misunderstanding; what does that imply about their relationship?)

Carmine makes the PC promise to keep this a secret from Kieran, citing two reasons.

1. She's worried that he'll feel left out that he didn't get to see it (so she decides to leave him out, brilliant!)

2. She doesn't want him running up the mountain at night searching for the ogre (more valid, but I think it's telling that it wasn't the first thing that she was worried about; she says it more as an after thought.)

The following morning Carmine shows up at the community centre and takes the PC to her house to talk to her and Kieran's grandpa.

But, oh, Kieran is there! Then she says, "Kiki, go find someplace else to be! PC's got business with me!"

Kieran runs off angry, the grandpa tells Carmine to be nicer to her brother, and Carmine claims that she was being nice since she didn't hit him (I'm paraphrasing, and no, I don't think that Carmine's physically abusive).

Grandpa tells PC and Carmine the truth about Ogerpon and tells them not to tell Kieran the truth, since he plans to do it in his own time.

Carmine's response to being told to keep Kieran in the dark? "OK, Grandpa... Now I REALLY can't tell Kiki we met the ogre..."

And I'm like, what?! If you wanted to tell him, you could've done it at the same time as you told your grandpa!

Remember her two worries? Kieran feeling left out, and him running up the mountain at night. Well, she decided to leave him out some more, and it's morning! Her concern about his safety is no longer relevant, and she's actively excluding him, when her primary concern was him feeling left out!

The way Carmine acts only makes sense as a plot device; she didn't know that her grandpa knew anything special about Ogerpon. They were just gonna show him the mask to get it repaired. What, was her plan to get the mask fixed and return it without Kieran ever knowing? Or to bring him along when they returned the fix mask?

What exactly was this girl's thought process?

This is a bit of a rant, sorry! Tldr; I think player has to be a spineless people pleaser to go along with Carmine's lie during the festival given that Carmine was such a jerk up to that point. Read on for rambling!

I am of the opinion that if there was an option to tell Kieran the truth about having seen Ogerpon during the Teal Mask, in that narrative branch Kieran wouldn't have had a meltdown that led to him becoming a tyrant during Blueberry Academy.

But the player can't tell him the truth. But why?

Now, obviously, Kieran serves as the antagonist of both DLC - either his personality would have to be written so he was a jerk from the start, or he has to go off the deep end, otherwise there is no force to fight against that offers proper narrative payoff. Thus, the player can't tell him because otherwise there would be no story.

However, with the base game in mind, can we tell if the player character is the sort of person that would keep Ogerpon a secret just because they were asked to?

When it comes to the three main stories, they only happen because someone asked the player to do them; Nemona suggests the Gym Challenge, and the player does it. Arven needs help with Titans, why not? Someone hacked your phone and tells you to deal with a biker gang made up of students? Seems totally reasonable.

What sort of person would just do these things? A people pleaser? Someone who struggles to set boundaries? Seriously, I'm curious.

Back to the DLC; you meet Kieran and Carmine and end up partnered up with Kieran, and the player seems friendly enough with Kieran, not like they're annoyed by him at any point before the festival. (Like, I know what subreddit this is, but I'm just trying to establish that the character of the player seems friendly with Kieran regardless of the feelings of the person holding the control).

But Carmine has been a jerk to the player up to the festival. Once again - if you like Carmine, that's great, but that doesn't change the fact that if someone acted like Carmine towards you, you probably wouldn't want anything to do with her.

So, the player and Carmine see Ogerpon at the festival, and then Kieran wanders up, and the player's first impulse is to tell Kieran about it. Then Carmine speaks over the player, Kieran leaves thinking the player and Carmine were talking about him behind his back, and Carmine tells the player why she lied; to spare his feelings, was her first thought. Then she tacked on the bit about it being dangerous in the mountains.

Now, earlier in the day, Kieran told the player that he had been sneaking up to Oni Mountain for years; possibly before he even had a pokemon of his own. That doesn't mean it's not dangerous, but considering the things the player might or might not have done themselves at this point, would it actually read as that dangerous?

Anyway, the player doesn't tell Kieran cause Carmine, who has been rude to them all day, told them to. Quick reminder, the player is a teenager; is it that unrealistic that they would tell Kieran the truth just to be contrary?

If the roles had been reversed, Carmine was off playing Ogre Ousting, and Kieran was with the player, and they had seen Ogerpon, what might have happened? Either Kieran chases after it, proving Carmine right, and the player would follow - or, Kieran wouldn't chase after it, and would ask the player not to tell Carmine about it for whatever reason, and the player would probably agree...

On the subject of Yukito telling the player to keep Ogerpon a secret... once again, the player is a teenager; they don't have perspective. Just because someone claims to know better, and probably does, doesn't mean that a teen would be willing to keep a secret from someone they were friendly with. The player would have to be sort of person that folds to authority with no questions asked.

Thoughts?