u/Lysergic-Nights

Hey all! I am looking for some affinage advice on aging a farmhouse Wensleydale. I am trying to achieve a style similar to Stonebeck, which features a lot of distinct cracks and fissures on the rind.

Picture one and two are mine, three and four are Stonebeck prior to, and during aging, respectively.

Stonebeck binds their cloth neat meaning they don't use lard, butter, or any fat to adhere the cloth. They simply stitch it tightly around the sides, leaving the top and bottom faces completely exposed to the elements.

My question is, How do you manage and control mold growth without the protective fat barrier? How do you prevent aggressive, unwanted molds from taking over the exposed top/bottom and sneaking deep into those rind fissures? Binding with a fat like lard to fill up those holes would make sense, but they don’t apply any fat to the binding!

What specific humidity levels and airflow settings prevent the exposed faces from drying out too fast while keeping the mold balanced?

Does this style require heavy brushing, or do you let a specific microflora establish itself naturally to block out the bad molds?

Thanks guys!

Edit: I’ve spoken to Gianaclis Caldwell (u/cheesalady) about this topic this morning. Thanks Gianaclis! I’ll use some of her words as she gave me permission and she’s much better at phrasing digestible Cheesemaking sentences.

“From the looks of the above photos I suspect they do very simple rind care, like occasionally patting down the mucor. The different molds are likely coming from the milk and residential Flora in the aging space.

The raw milk they're using is likely a great source for protective bacteria, given what they say they graze the cows on. I bet they don't use teat dips either! They're going to be molds coming from the farm side this way as well.

My biggest question for the kind of wild affinagein the picture is how they deal with cheese mites. It's a big problem for all bandage wrapped cheesemakers. If you know, let me know too.

I was going to say too, and I don't know where your aging space is at with its population and how long it's been in use, but it takes a lot of cheeses and a decent amount of time for everything to establish and equalize. Then you're going to get the effect of terroir.

One of our cheeses, Elk Mountain, was in a study of rind mycology that they did at Cornell University. In the end, they asked us if we added fusarium. They said they saw it mostly only in European cheese rinds. We didn't add anything, so the conclusion was it was prevalent in our surrounding forest and was coming into the milk and aging space naturally. It was just a terrific reminder of the things that are out of our control--things that can be to our benefit if we don't fight them!”

Hey all! I’ve made it to the central US and made my way to my new source for raw milk. It’s a 100 year old Jersey Dairy that practice intensive pasture rotation and keeps their dairy cows fed entirely on fresh grass. Their milk is of exceptional quality. I would have toured the dairy if I had time but I was on a timeframe this first visit. It was so lovely to see the actual pastures that they feed off of at least! That’s a luxury I wasn’t able to get with my last milk source since it was sourced through a Co-Op.

If anyone here is located in central Texas, I highly suggest checking out The Jersey Barnyard. If you’re lucky, Sully the Longhorn will let you pet him !

This is the same procedure I used with my Stonebeck inspired wheel a few posts back but I modified it a bit to try and improve on my last attempt. There was still butterfat loss but only in the making process this time and with shoveling the curd for draining. No fat loss on the press. I’m getting there with this recipe… slowly. I’ll increase the ripening time to an hour next week. I increased the ripening time from 20 to 30 and ripened to 30°C instead of 27.5°C, increased the floc multiplier to 4.25 (20 floc, 65 hardening), cook time to about an hour, and pitched for 30 mins. The only heat I added was to bring it back up to 30C during the scald because it lost some heat in the renneting.

It’s also the first time I’ve tried my hand at cloth binding. Please ignore my shitty stitching job lol ! Low Riggs Farm bandage their cheeses neat so they don’t use a binder like lard or butter on it so I just followed that. They also don’t cover the tops, only the sides.

I tried my best to keep the pH in track with my senses so I salted after about 8.5 hours from renneting. Stonebeck aims for 7.5. It was extremely difficult on a slow acid cheese like this one for me because the texture is so different to a traditional cheddar and acidified way slower since acidification takes place between 27-30C. I still don’t really know what I’m doing with this style yet either. I presume the rind growth will tell me how acidic the rind is at least, but when I milled the curds it had a lactic definite tang while some parts were neutral.

I was blown away when I opened this guy up! It’s got a pretty I made this one on May 28th and opened it today because Im not confident I could keep the aging conditions going during my move. I followed the recipe from Gianaclis Caldwell’s Matering Artisan Cheesemaking in a 19L batch of raw Jersey milk. I used MA4000 and FLAV54 for this guy.

The flavor is rich, buttery, and a bit bouncy with a classic cheddar acidity and boldness. I actually like younger British territorials like Wensleydale and Lancashire more than Cheddar and this strongly resembles the latter so I’m incredibly happy.

Hey all. This is the start of my latest project. I’ve been delving head first into traditional farmhouse Wensleydale making recently as it’s gone through a resurrection after going nearly extinct. I will not be able to make a ‘Yorkshire’ Wensleydale as that has PGI classification but hopefully I can make a decent Wensley through my own raw milk, following the traditional methods then adjusting to make my own version!

The last pic is Low Riggs Stonebeck after cloth binding, every picture before then is mine.

This recipe is extremely challenging. It comes from Andrew and Sally Hatten of Low Riggs Farm who make Stonebeck. A Wensleydale style cheese. They use farm fresh raw Northern Dairy Shorthorn milk from their herd that’s located in Nidderdale, England. The reason it’s challenging is because it’s heavily specialized to their own farm and milk. Their recipe only works for them and is literally inimitable without adjusting your own make and goals in the process. It’s a farmhouse recipe, so it only works for their farm.

This cheese is so moist that my versions don’t survive a vacuum seal so it can only age as a natural rind. The rind also isn’t supposed to fully knit together! This definitely reminds me of White Stilton that is advertised as Wensleydale. As for how their wheels don’t get massive unwanted mold intrusion? I’m not sure, I’m too inexperienced! But I think their cave is a highly controlled space. They grow mucor in their rinds and since it’s so aggressive maybe that takes over before any other mold can on the surface. Then the succession molds take hold. I’ll admit as well that my pH goals with draining haven’t been consistent or really even measured for that matter but I still monitor with my Intuition.

Here is the basis of the process

starter (MA11); temp 28C.

No ripening time.

Rennet: (20 flocculation, 50 hardening).

Cut 2cm cubes, vertical, rest 10 mins, then horizontal, then rest 10 mins before stirring.
Stir gently for 30 mins, no scald

Pitch: 30 mins. I’ve done 30 before but this time I did 15-20 to stop too many drainage channels from sealing up. A longer pitch though is certainly needed to help kick start the acid.

Drain and whey off (25 mins). Tuck a muslin cloth over whole curd mass, and round the sides to keep it warm and allow drainage from sides.

Leave for 1.5 hours; adding heavy metal pipes on the top to form natural 'pressure' channels ½ way through.

The curd should firm up. Once firm, the curd 'tells you' it is ready to proceed to the bagging

Shovel the curd into bags

Hang bags on frame over vat (maximising using the residual warmth from vat, ideally bag temp needs to be >26C but <28C)

Leave hanging in bags for 3-4 hours

Mill

Salt (2.2%), mix well then fill up the moulds

Leave 4 hours, then turn in mould

Leave overnight.

Next morning: turn, then press - gently; 3 hours. 5 lbs 3 hours, 7.5 pounds 3 hours.

Then bind; hand stitch (no butter, lard or paste just one circumferential bandage round edge - no tops or bottoms.

Mature for 3+ weeks.

I’ve had cloudy whey from stirring even just vigorously enough to prevent matting, shattered curds, butterfat loss during pressing at over 10lbs, stalled acidification because of the low room temps, bag temps, premature curd shoveling, slow bag drainage. And I feel like I will have secondary fermentation. Almost nothing from following these instructions has worked for me so far and I’ve had to adjust through every attempt. Industrial style recipes have a much more straightforward process. Yesterday this procedure took me nearly 12 hours.

What to fix: I think I need some sort of acid development at one or two degrees higher than 28C prior to renneting. I’ve had nothing but soft sets that shatter with cloudy whey. Stirring more until the curds have toughened a little bit more. Possibly also letting that pitch linger around 30 minutes.

I will not stop though until I’ve mastered Wensleydale! My main milk source is raw Holstein at the moment but I will be getting access to farm fresh Jersey milk soon which I pray will make a difference. Until then, keep eating Wensleydale ;)

This is one of my first great successes with Wensleydale, my white whale of Cheesemaking. Even though it doesn’t have the signature crumbly texture usually associated with Wensleys it’s still very much a Wensleydale. It’s very lactic, moist, and yogurty with some traces of minerals. It does somewhat have a lingering bitterness and I’m not sure what that’s from. It’s not an unpleasant taste but I would like to get that out in my future makes.

As Andy Swinscoe says is his book.

“Wensleydale cheese doesn’t have a definitive recipe, and it doesn’t have a definitive taste or texture: it has been many things to many different people over its history. It has evolved and changed over thousands of years.”

I’ve thought about calling my version Shimiji or Shimiyi which is the Chumash word referring to the clouds in the valley where I was born. Coincidentally that area shares extreme similarities in the landscape of an English Dale. A valley with sloped hills and a stream running through.

This cheese was based off information shared by my friend Tan or SmoothSkill on here, and from The Courtyard Dairy. This ribblesdales recipe I used in this cheese originated from JeffHamm on cheese forum. Here is the procedure I followed and modified.

Blend of raw Holstein and Jersey milk
Flav54
MA11

1. Use a low culture dose, 0.5% Temp 32C
2. Long ripen 80 minutes
3. Rennet + Set 35 minutes 3.25x Flocc
4. Cut 1cm, wait 5 minutes
5. Scald/Stir 90 minutes 32C very gently to pH 6.35
6. Press lightly under whey and drain 15-20min
7. Cut curd mass into blocks, turn 3x for 30min
8. Cut 5cm cubes, 22-24C drain 30 min to pH 5.40
9. Mill fine, salt to 2.3%
10. Press 10-30x curd weight over 2 days

NEC recipe used by a lot of fellow cheesemakers here. I visit some friends on Wednesday and figured this would go perfect in the mornings :-)

I do have one question though. How do you guys who’ve made it deal with the moisture content of this cheese? There’s still some whey that drains off when left at room temp but it is ready to eat. I was just thinking of wrapping it in a paper towel and then wrapping that in plastic wrap.

This is a really experimental project that I’ve only just started working on. I’ve been thinking of developing my own cheddar style for a while. I’ve played around with all kinds of different milled curd styles (Yorkshire, Lancashire, Leicestershire, Cheshire, the Scottish Dunlop, French Cantal, and of course classic cheddar) and I see the similarities in the procedures of them all, so I’ve adopted aspects from other styles in this procedure, but the blueprint of this recipe is from Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking.

Mike on here helped me with some good thermo strains for cheddar and suggested L Acidophilus as an adjunct so I tracked down the only yogurt I could find with that as the main active culture :-) thanks Mike! I also added flav for an alpine flavor hint in this.

Heat to around 90°F (32°C)
1/4 cup Bulgarian Yogurt
1/32 MA4002
1/64 FLAV 54
I use raw milk so I ripen only for 30-40 minutes usually. This one was 30.

Rennet

I use a 3x multiplier as opposed to 3.25-3.5. It helps the fat stay inside the curds and overall the curds just feel better. I cut a little bit larger than 1/2 inch and stir gentler at first.

Heat up to 101°F (38°C) in half an hour. Keep at temp Stir until cooked through.

Pitch 10 mins

Cheddar at 100° for around 3 hours until whey is completely drained and acid is developed enough.

Mill, add salt equal to 2% of the weight of the cheese in two batches waiting 10 mins between saltings.

Press starting light until whey stops dripping then keep adding weight. I started at 20lbs then about two hours later I ramped up to 80lbs. It only took me 18 hours or so to close the rind at a max of 80lbs.

This will be my last cheese I make where I live at the moment. in a month and a half I relocate out to the Central US. I will probably be MIA on this sub for a bit with posts but I can’t wait to see what you guys make soon!

Recipe from Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking with several tweaks on my end. I cut a tiny bit bigger, stirred gentler, and only scaled to 100F. There were many procedural mishaps on my end that made this a learning experience.

Firstly I under cultured. I wanted to be able to extend my cheddaring process out so the curds would be able to expell all the whey possibe, but im not sure I even had enough acid in them to help drive out the whey. By the end of cooking the pH had only dropped to 6.43 after close to 90 mins. It took 3 1/2 hours of cheddaring to get to 5.4 at which I milled and salted. Mellowing for 20 mins between 2 saltings. The curds were moist but not wet.

I'm not sure what the opacity of whey should be when pressing a Cheddar. Most of the artisan procuders I see clearly have milky whey. What im thinking is that if you do the cheddaring process right and expell all the remaining whey, the color shouldnt matter. Since the point of cheddaring after all is to get it completely drained.

I've also started to think that Jersey milk is not the number one choice for cheddar styles because of the fat content and globule size. I always press some butterfat out of my cheddars because of the weight needed to close the rind. Not a ton but definitely some. If you guys noitce some details in my procedure that seems curious or needs correction please let me know! Thanks guys. (Procedure in comments)

Hey all! This one’s fresh out of the brine.
Like the rest of my alpine posts this month it’s a blend of recipes but mainly NEC Beaufort style and Sailor Con Queso’s Beaufort style. Long aging time 8 months minimum, up to 18. Ive been loving French alpines recently and I promised my cousin André who acquired me a Järb that I’d send him some cheese in time for Christmas ! Here’s my procedure

5 gallon seasonal spring grass fed raw milk. Here’s the kicker, this milk is over a week old 😉

Cultures: MA11 1/16, TA61 1/32, LH100 1/24

Heat 90°F, 32C

Ripen 30 mins

Rennet: 1/2 tsp, floc 20 mins x3

Cut 10 mins

Heat: Up to 128F, 54C, over 40 mins. Mine were cooked thoroughly by 118° in 29 mins.

Drain: let pitch couple mins just while prepping hoop.

Pressing: press under whey 1 hour flipping every 15 mins. I used only 7 pounds of weight for the first hour then ramped up to 40, then 80 after 2 1/2 hours.

Salt: Brine approx 3 hours per lb. Traditional Beaufort recipes do a hybrid brine and dry salt method but I opted for just brining. The traditional method also helps with rind flora development.

Affinage: 50° 8 months minimum with a smear applied by a natural bristle baby toothbrush. Cultures for smear I’m still researching. I believe smear should be applied twice a week but I have no idea quite honestly. Any sort of not would be super helpful. Since it’s Jersey milk I age at a lower temp. I read somewhere (if I find the source I’ll link it) that aging at lower temps and longer with Jersey milk helps the aging because of the fat content.

pH goals: I’ll admit, I’m a bit lazy. I take a reading of the milk at ripening which for me was quite acidic. ~6.49. Then after culture, ~6.45. Then once you cut you work so fast I don’t really have time to measure it. I’m just going off the basis that from cutting to brining it should take me around 5-6 hours. If your milk is more acidic like mine was it could be faster. Once the rind is sealed and the wheel is smooth I probe the side of the wheel for pH then press a couple of minutes to get rid of the hole.

My first blue ! Aged 40 days then vac sealing for another 20. Made by experimenting in my head one day with recipes. I’ve never made a blue but I’ve made plenty of Yorkshire styles. A blue Wensleydale is actually a historical cheese as well (Made completely differently than mine) so why not?

I’m a bit curious about the white veins throughout the paste. I’m assuming if this was trapped whey it would ferment after pressing and produce gas bubbles. None of that. Could it be literally be the outlines of the individual curds I milled and pressed? Could it be rapid Proteolysis from the Roqueforti and how much I pierced it? If anyone has insight on this I’d be extremely curious to know what you guys think :-)

A milled curd Yorkshire style cheese that I tried to natural age, not at all what I wanted but it is a good cheese nonetheless. This cheese is very young, only about 8 weeks old. You can see my mark where I tried it and determined it probably wasn’t going to get much better with age. The acidity is boarding right on 5.0 with a definite forward tang that almost overtakes the natural flavors of the milk as you bite in, followed by a creamy mouthfeel and milky taste. Very moist and crumby. I don’t think the rind added too much flavor as it didn’t have time to really develop more.

In picture 2 you can see where all my curds formed their bonds together. It really didn’t take much weight at all for this one to knit together. I almost thought I had late blow from all those cracks until I recognized the curd striation patterns. All in all, I’m pretty happy with these results even though it was far from my vision :-)

I’ve been on a real cheesemaking kick recently as well which is pretty evident by my post history this week. Happy to see everyone’s experiences and posts on here!

Hey guys. This is a bit of a beginner question, but I’m having trouble finding clarification so I thought I’d ask it here. I brined my alpine style #4 at cave temperature before letting the wheel come down to cave temperature (rookie move) so when I brined it, the wheel became much more pale, splotchy, and seems to be much firmer of a cheese compared to my alpine style #3. This led me to believe I accidentally shocked the rind. What is the worst outcome of rind shocking? Will the affinage be compromised? Brining in general seems like it can be a bit tricker than dry salting simply because of maintenance and checking and balancing pH, salt levels, cleanliness, so maybe I will try to dry salt and compare each other. Thanks guys

Same recipe and procedure as my last post. Just trying to get it under control and practice a lot. I’m really starting to get it! The hardest part is getting the stirring fast enough to help the curds not mat together between 115-128 degrees. Thank you Yoav for the advice on my last thread with testing pH. I just decided to probe the wheel and see if the hole would heal and it did! You can see the little hole indent that sealed in the last picture. This wheel weighs about 5 pounds and uses a blend of the raw Holstein milk we sell at work and my local farms raw Jersey Milk. Vac seal for this one as I’m still studying washes and smears for alpines. Does anyone have a good basic “morge”, wash, or smear solution?

This one will be aged a minimum of 6-8 months in my vac bag!

Hey all! I made this cheese combining the processors from Sailor con Queso and Jim Wallace’s recipes for Beaufort cheese. There’s some surface imperfections including one sizable crack in the rind from handling too rough while flipping during pressing along with inexperience from this new large mould+procedure. Into the vac seal it goes after air drying!

I’m still figuring out how to test acidity after the rind is sealed. I tried tasting the whey and taking a sample at the 6 hour mark and I tasted a slight pH shift so with the high temperature of the wheel and the size (5 pounds) I decided to brine thinking it will continue to develop slightly before the salt penetrates. If I’m wrong about any of this I’d love to hear from someone with more experience.

I’m almost completely inexperienced with Alpine style cheeses. I made a couple some months ago that were utter failures but I plan to work on this style for the next coming months. I’d love to natural rind age one of these cheeses in this style soon.

Hey guys. I’ve been experimenting with maturation boxes and natural rinds. This is a natural rind Yorkshire I’ve been aging for about 2 weeks. Two days ago my wheel looked like this, and then this morning it was almost completely covered in the blue. I forgot to take a picture of it unfortunately but if this is the trend I’m sure it will show back up. I would assume this is because of the humidity level but also this mold is so aggressive. It can completely cover my wheel in two days. Any thoughts are much appreciated!