u/New_House_6103

▲ 6 r/redbuttonbluebutton+1 crossposts

The Problem with the Buttons, the Trolley, and other Morality Hypotheticals

The trolley problem has existed for a long time. The button problem has existed for.... awhile. And I think ultimately, what both of these and other hypotheticals have taught us is... these games are no way to actually discuss morality or come together as a group.

Discussions of these problems don't actually advance our understanding of morality, or how to apply morality in society, because they are impossible situations. There is never going to be a scenario in which the buttons happen, there is never going to be a real world trolley problem. Not one that exists in a vacuum like the problem suggests. And I think these problems are tempting and fun to argue about, because there is no real world consequences for arguing with strangers about how to deal with an impossible, useless scenario. Nobody learns anything. Instead, we both yell at each other, call each other stupid, and sow division and encourage tribalism over something useless. We don't actually learn how to deal with the problems we are facing in this world.

Before the button problem, I hated the trolley problem. Because, there is no nuance, and no sense. Who is tying people to train tracks? Where would this scenario every apply in real life? It encourages people to decide who deserves to be deprioritized instead of questioning the systems that require someone to suffer at the expense of others in the first place.

I may be a red buttoner, but at the end of the day, blue buttoners aren't my enemy. I disagree with them, sure, but this is nothing more than a game. A silly game, that doesn't prepare any of use for actual moral concerns or help us collaborate on making the world a better place. It's easier to play these games than to try to improve the world. And, while there is nothing wrong with playing these games, we shouldn't mistake them for actual discussions of morality, ethics, and harm reduction. The real world is a lot more complicated than a button.

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u/New_House_6103 — 4 days ago

Who Bears the Guilt

I'm a red button pusher. But honestly, that's not even the important thing here. Lets say, this scenario did actually happen. That this WAS something everyone on the planet had to do.

HOW.

Think about it. If every single person on the planet was required to press one of these two buttons, someone or something is responsible for that. Someone or something is killing people if blue gets less than 51% of the votes. Is it immoral to make the entire planet play this game? Is it immoral to kill people for pressing a button? YES. A hostile government, psychopath, supervillain, alien entity, eldritch horror, trickster god, take your damn pick, something is making the planet play this game. THEY are the ones responsible for killing people here. Not red button pushers. Not blue button pushers. The entity.

Yeah, I do think that the most likely outcome is that some people are going to die. I do not believe that in a life or death scenario, that 51% or more or people are pushing blue. The public talk is performance. Even me, we all are performing something, but I think blue button choosers are performing both moral superiority, and prioritization of the herd. Humans are a social species. Right now, you are viewed poorly for prioritizing your own life over potentially saving everyone. It costs nothing to say on the internet, I would choose to be a hero.

But in a scenario where, there is a cosmic entity, hostile government, or full blown diety playing games with the lives of everyone on the planet, to put the burden of morality on the forced participants of the game, is ridiculous. If this was a real thing presented to me, I wouldn't even know if I would believe the terms. But, in the interest of simplicity, I will assume that I do believe the terms. I'm just not fucking with my own life. At the end of the day, I prioritize my own survival above everything else. Especially since humanity has harmed me over and over again in my life, but I still think it wouldn't matter if it hadn't. Not to mention, in this scenario, if I die, it will be because blue FAILED. I wouldn't have even saved anyone. I would have died for nothing.

So I'm voting red. And I'm blaming whatever terrible being who made humanity play this game for killing innocent people.

u/New_House_6103 — 9 days ago