I’m studying historical practices that attempted to decommodify labor.
I’ll also learn through AI and other sources, but I’d really appreciate it if people here could point me toward relevant historical examples, books, papers, or discussions that I might otherwise miss.
I'm learning about the schools of market socialism, but during my reading process, I rarely saw them have these dynamic and changing perspectives. So I want to verify whether I have missed some information.
---
And the information I have is about Eight major types of market socialism. I'm not sure if there are any omissions：
Traditional Models (Eastern European Period)；The core divergence lies in "to what extent should decentralization be carried out?"
Lange's "Competitive Market Socialism"
Brus's "Planned Economy Model with Introduced Market Mechanism"
Šik's "Distributive Planning Model"
Kornai's "Market Coordination under Macro Control"
Contemporary Models (Anglo-American Period)；The core divergence lies in "what mechanism to use to ensure equality".
Roemer's "Virtual Stock Market Socialism"
Miller's "Cooperative Market Socialism"
Yunker's "Pragmatic Market Socialism"
Schweickart's "Economic Democracy"
I'm learning about the schools of market socialism, but during my reading process, I rarely saw them have these dynamic and changing perspectives. So I want to verify whether I have missed some information.
---
And the information I have is about Eight major types of market socialism. I'm not sure if there are any omissions：
Traditional Models (Eastern European Period)；The core divergence lies in "to what extent should decentralization be carried out?"
Lange's "Competitive Market Socialism"
Brus's "Planned Economy Model with Introduced Market Mechanism"
Šik's "Distributive Planning Model"
Kornai's "Market Coordination under Macro Control"
Contemporary Models (Anglo-American Period)；The core divergence lies in "what mechanism to use to ensure equality".
Roemer's "Virtual Stock Market Socialism"
Miller's "Cooperative Market Socialism"
Yunker's "Pragmatic Market Socialism"
Schweickart's "Economic Democracy"
Hi everyone, these days I am sorting out a framework to see To what extent/ which aspect does a proposal/organization/movement deviate from communism.
I plan to use it to
This is the version I revised ； and if you have any suggestions for improvement, please feel free to put them forward：
Communist Evaluation｜Cases Learning & Self-examination
1. Ownership and Control of the Means of Production
A. Social ownership
B. Small-group collective ownership
C. Capital ownership
2. Is Labor Power Commodified?
A. Non-commodified
B. Partially commodified
C. Highly commodified
3. What Relations Govern the Inputs of Production?
A. Collective resource coordination
B. Coercive relations
C. Commodity relations
4. What Relations Govern the Outputs of Production?
A. Collective resource coordination
B. Coercive relations
C. Commodity relations
5. Is It Necessary to Increase Productive Forces to Sustain Its Own Development?
A. Voluntary development of productive forces
B. Stable self-sustenance
C. Forced continuous development of productive forces
6. Can It Sustain and Expand the Power of the Working Class?
A. Strongly promotes it
B. Maintains it
C. Weakens / deprives it
Hi, I'm trying to sort out a case library of real-world practices that attempt to create a "better" world.
Also, I'm trying to develop a Marxian evaluation framework to examine these cases beyond their labels or intentions.
The goal:
Case level: Independent Unit → Federation/Network → Social Movement → Societal System→ Proposals
Assessment: Wage → Exchange → Firm → Accumulation → Socialization → State & Class（this is from a comrade's revise which lies in the comment of the link）
Both of them definely can be designed better , and I'm seeking criticism here.
--
Case Library ：
Ⅰ. Independent Unit Practices
>Relatively autonomous units that attempt to establish alternative forms of production, distribution, governance, or social provision within the existing society.
Ⅱ. Federated / Networked Practices
>Multiple independent practices that form federations, networks, alliances, or shared systems of resources and production.
Ⅲ. Social Movements
>Practices that develop into organized and sustained movements capable of spreading alternative social relations and pursuing broader social change.
Ⅳ. Societal / Systemic Practices
>Attempts to extend alternative forms of production, distribution, governance, and social reproduction to society as a whole.
V. Proposals
>Proposals for social transformation that have not been fully realized as practices, or that primarily take the form of theoretical, policy, or institutional designs.
Hi, I'm trying to sort out a case library of real-world practices that attempt to create a "better" world.
Also, I'm trying to develop a Marxian evaluation framework to examine these cases beyond their labels or intentions.
The goal:
Case level: Independent Unit → Federation/Network → Social Movement → Societal System→ Proposals
Assessment: Wage → Exchange → Firm → Accumulation → Socialization → State & Class（this is from a comrade's revise which lies in the comment of the link）
Both of them definely can be designed better , and I'm seeking criticism here.
--
Case Library ：
Ⅰ. Independent Unit Practices
>Relatively autonomous units that attempt to establish alternative forms of production, distribution, governance, or social provision within the existing society.
Ⅱ. Federated / Networked Practices
>Multiple independent practices that form federations, networks, alliances, or shared systems of resources and production.
Ⅲ. Social Movements
>Practices that develop into organized and sustained movements capable of spreading alternative social relations and pursuing broader social change.
Ⅳ. Societal / Systemic Practices
>Attempts to extend alternative forms of production, distribution, governance, and social reproduction to society as a whole.
V. Proposals
>Proposals for social transformation that have not been fully realized as practices, or that primarily take the form of theoretical, policy, or institutional designs.
Yesterday, I posted a post about A Marxian framework for evaluating【 cooperative production cases】 . I saw the relevant reply from comrade.
He pointed out the problems of the cooperative very well, but my aim was not just to criticize them, but to solve and surpass them at the problem points.
The following will be the identification of two key issues and the transcendent solutions to address them. I hope to discuss about it further:
--
Comrade：
>1. A cooperative can score B/B/B (produces for need, worker-owned, distributes by labour) on axes 1–3 and still be capitalist, because if it sells its output on a market and buys its inputs on a market, the law of value reaches inside and dictates its behaviour regardless of anyone's intentions. It must compete, cut costs, raise productivity, and self-exploit — or die.
Directions that can be surpassed：
Comrade：
>2. The subjective purpose ("we produce for need") is overridden by the objective compulsion of exchange.
Directions that can be surpassed：
--
A foreseeable path :
We need to establish a vanguard team in the production field and strive in two directions:
2. Non-Necessity goods:
I'd really appreciate criticism of these points.
Yesterday, I posted a post about A Marxian framework for evaluating【 cooperative production cases】 . I saw the relevant reply from comrade.
He pointed out the problems of the cooperative very well, but my aim was not just to criticize them, but to solve and surpass them at the problem points.
The following will be the identification of two key issues and the transcendent solutions to address them. I hope to discuss about it further:
--
Comrade：
>1. A cooperative can score B/B/B (produces for need, worker-owned, distributes by labour) on axes 1–3 and still be capitalist, because if it sells its output on a market and buys its inputs on a market, the law of value reaches inside and dictates its behaviour regardless of anyone's intentions. It must compete, cut costs, raise productivity, and self-exploit — or die.
Directions that can be surpassed：
Comrade：
>2. The subjective purpose ("we produce for need") is overridden by the objective compulsion of exchange.
Directions that can be surpassed：
--
A foreseeable path :
We need to establish a vanguard team in the production field and strive in two directions:
2. Non-Necessity goods:
I'd really appreciate criticism of these points.
I'm learning different cases about cooperative production, aiming to summary their experiences on decommodified production.
I'd really appreciate criticism of this framework, especially from people familiar with Marx's theory, worker cooperatives, or real-world cooperative movements.
---
Here is my evaluating framework:
1. Production Purpose
What is the ultimate purpose of the production activity?
2. Ownership & Control of the Means of Production
Who owns and controls the means of production, such as facilities, equipment, and technology?
3. Principle of Distribution
According to what principle are products, income, or surplus primarily distributed?
4. Reproduction of Production Relations
Can it be sustained by escaping or weakening commodity–capital relations?
I'm learning different cases about cooperative production, aiming to study their experiences on decommodified production.
I'd really appreciate criticism of this framework, especially from people familiar with Marx's theory, worker cooperatives, or real-world cooperative movements.
---
Here is my evaluating framework:
1. Production Purpose
What is the ultimate purpose of the production activity?
2. Ownership & Control of the Means of Production
Who owns and controls the means of production, such as facilities, equipment, and technology?
3. Principle of Distribution
According to what principle are products, income, or surplus primarily distributed?
4. Reproduction of Production Relations
Can it be sustained by escaping or weakening commodity–capital relations?
By luxuries I mean anything that is not a necessity (phones, computers, 3d printers, microscopes, drones).
Under capitalism, the distribution is classist and those with more wealth are able to get a concentrated amount of these. Obviously some things exist that are not and will not be abundant, such as the best graphics card or the best drone.
The concentrated amount of tech can be useful at times, for example, a person who is into printing may be able to do more with multiple high-end 3D printers.
How would these items be distributed in a communist society? How is who gets what for industrial luxuries decided?
Something I've been struggling to understand in a Communist society is how the aspect of job demand functions. If in a Communist society, people are allowed to work the job that they think best suits them or interests them, i.e. "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need," how does the demand of certain jobs outpace people's own interests? For example, what happens if there's not enough people who want to work as store clerks or construction workers? Or, what if there are many people that want to work a certain job, but we don't have enough people to build the facilities for this abundance of workers?
>We recommend to the working men to embark in co-operative production rather than in co-operative stores. The latter touch but the surface of the present economical system, the former attacks its groundwork. -- Instructions for the Delegates of the Provisional General Council
Hi everyone, as Marx mentioned above, it is better to embark in co-operative production.
However, there are many issues involved in this, such as how to determine the position salary (we cannot eliminate the remuneration from the very beginning).
We can draw lessons from Mondragon by setting up post wages and imposing a ratio limit between the minimum and maximum wages. However, Mondragon established a special team of his own to conduct research on the average social wage. Then do we also need to set up such a group? Or is there any better way to set the average salary line for each position？
It took me two weeks, averaging at least five hours a day, to read only half of it.
I feel it takes too much time and I'd like to hear other reading experience.
It took me two weeks, averaging at least five hours a day, to read only half of it.
I feel it takes too much time and I'd like to hear other reading experience.
While reading Engels’s Preface to the 1886 English Edition of Capital, I found a quote about Marx
>Surely, at such a moment, the voice ought to be heard of a man whose whole theory is the result of a lifelong study of the economic history and condition of England, and whom that study led to the conclusion that, at least in Europe, England is the only country where the inevitable social revolution might be effected entirely by peaceful and legal means. He certainly never forgot to add that he hardly expected the English ruling classes to submit, without a “pro-slavery rebellion,” to this peaceful and legal revolution.
This seems to contrast with Manifesto of the Communist Party in 1848:
>
So, do I need to understand these two paragraphs from the perspective of historical materialism? Or else how to understand it ?
While reading Engels’s Preface to the 1886 English Edition of Capital, I found a quote about Marx
>Surely, at such a moment, the voice ought to be heard of a man whose whole theory is the result of a lifelong study of the economic history and condition of England, and whom that study led to the conclusion that, at least in Europe, England is the only country where the inevitable social revolution might be effected entirely by peaceful and legal means. He certainly never forgot to add that he hardly expected the English ruling classes to submit, without a “pro-slavery rebellion,” to this peaceful and legal revolution.
This seems to contrast with Manifesto of the Communist Party in 1848:
>
So, do I need to understand these two paragraphs from the perspective of historical materialism? Or else how to understand it ?
Step 1: Classify essential goods
Based on the classification of residents' consumption expenditure in various countries；Based on practical life experience, screen out the basic categories of necessities.
Step 2: Production process for each category
Through various approaches (books, research reports, videos, on-the-spot interview...) list the production process for each category
Step 3: Means of production
Based on the production process, list the required production materials of each process (raw materials, equipment, knowledge, personnel and skills...)
Step 4: Major enterprises and their components
Based on each process of every category，list the corresponding major enterprises , their components and the possession of means of production (private, state-owned, cooperative, social organization, individual) ...
Step 5: Market analysis
Analyze the demands and production in various regions; Analyze costs of production and competitiveness...
Step 6: Positioning the entry point & Outline the path expansion
This involves strategic issues, such as how to drive the masses to continuously expand from small categories and how to solve the initial capital problem, etc.
However, there is a definite path: 1. Determine that the means of production are public from the very beginning; 2. From a single category to continuously expanding categories and production materials
Such a clear community is important, because the practitioners can quickly see each other and offer experience or support or strategies for relevant solutions in practice.
I have searched but seems no there.
Hey Comrades, I think the importanc doesn't need to be elaborated further, so let's get straight to the point.
Seeking comrades to jointly plan this work, the following are the key points that I think need to be clarified before practice.
The classification of the United Nations and the classification standards of various countries serve as reference points.
Horizontal (Spatial & Legal Boundary)
Vertical (Tiers of Social Reproduction)
I think this should be an open-source project. Maybe establishing one Repository on Github is a good approach, but there might be a better solution.
Leverage:
Risks:
Details:
If this work is indispensable, just start.
You can contact me on reddit.
Maybe we can start from setting up a discussion group.