u/NuclearTacos

Forget plot reasons because I know the plot is better off because of the situation, but just strategically/militarily...

I was thinking about this and it feels like the North of Izril should not have existed in its current form.

1. The drakes have held the chokepoint city (Liscor) for a long time. For some unexplained reason they do not build a larger wall, or fortify the city to be a military might. I understand for lots of plot reasons why Liscor must be a "border city" and cut off from the rest but strategically its kind of silly. But even so the humans have no standing military fort or anything nearby. The Southern human cities are sacked or destroyed by monsters, bloodfeast raiders and goblin lords in the story with very little effort.

2. The North feels so much smaller and emptier than the South. It has 2 cities on par with a walled City vs the 6 of the Drakes. The drakes also have a ton of smaller cities with walls that all seem to be on par with any smaller human city mentioned. This might be part of point 4 but it feels like an emperor showing up and starting an Empire would never have worked in the South because the drakes would have shut it down immediately. Drake city population and army numbers always sweem to dwarf the humans as well.

3. Drakes have standing armies and military discipline. They have watches that are on par with militas. Humans have militias, conscript armies and only the Veltras standing army. Their watches are mostly bumbling fools.

4. Humans were diminished by the Goblin King and the Drakes are stalemated by the Antinium so it makes sense for the last 20 years. Any time before that though it seems like the drakes could have just waltzed into the North and expanded easily.

5. I dont know where to begin with the idea of the bloodfields battles but it seems to me like they only benefit the North. The drakes let them come into their territory for a sparring match every year.

The only thing I can think of is something like the vaults of First landing, Regis especially with things like the Crown of Flowers. Maybe the Terland golems as well? We know they are holding back those 2 things at least from yearly conflicts. Veltras shows its teeth openly, and El is diminished. Wellfar is a naval power which seems mostly checked by Zeres in theory.

Just a fun thought exercise but I was trying to figure out why the drakes have accepted this stalemated "cold war" for lack of a better term.

In 9.41 part 1, Erin is stressed out and this line really caught me off guard. It wasn't a big moment or anything super dramatic relative to the rest of the story, but it just showed pure unadulterated frustration and worry leaking out from Erin:

“Just another reason to get ready. And another reason to think about…damn. Damn, damn, fuck. Where’s Chaldion?”

I dunno if its worthy of its own post especially since its old to people who are caught up, but the chapter reddit thread didn't mention it or if someone did I missed it.

For a character who speaks like she is trying to get a PG movie rating most of the time I thought it was really well placed. I don't remember her ever cursing in the 11 million words before this so it really drove home how upset she was.

The word chaos was used referring to Ryoka of all people in this vol 9 chapter and it reminded me of something I was stunned by from volume 8.

There is a class that stats with [Plotter] and evolves into [Chaos Schemer]

How the hell has this class never been offered to Erin? Not once? There is no way that Trey's scheming was more chaotic than any random Erin plan. She is banned from the Liscor playground and Hedaults shop. The watch captain has a days without Erin incident note. I feel like the GD messed up.

I know its a bit of a meme that paba doesnt do numbers, but how do you all deal with the ages of characters making no sense? I really love this story but it grinds at my self diagnosed mild OCD for consistency sometimes. I need advice on some coping mechanisms or maybe some headcanon ideas. Or maybe clarity if I am wrong?

The chapter had a replay of the 1st antinium war battle as Erin uses the Sserys boon on Mags:

Magnolia was apparently 16 during the 1st antinium wars, which were 20 years ago which would make her 36 but she is not anywhere near 36 and is iirc 46-50?

How old is Ressa? She is already personally bodyguarding Mags during the fight and is also a face of the assassins guild. As a lifelong friend of Magnolia I assumed similar ages so again just confusion. (I would love a Ressa backstory or pov chapter at some point, hopefully one occurs later in vol 9 or vol 10 for me, actually there was a small one where she was testing the maids but that was more slice of life)

I believe Maviola El is also considered relatively young-ish, young enough that her older brother tells her to stay back and not charge directly in to the fight for the 1st aninium war but Maviola El reached the ripe age of 90+ so she was an impetuous firebrand of a... 70 year old in that battle being told what to do?

Zevara was 8 years old as a trainee guard during it which seems odd. Imagine Visma holding the walls. That also means that based on Relcs retelling of when she took over the watch during the Cellidel chapters, she became the watch captain of Liscor at like age 23? That would be like Tkrn taking over the watch soon.

Mrsha magically skipped from age 7 to 8 in a recent winter chapter I read despite us knowing her birthday that turned her 7 is in Spring/summer. Technically it was Ryokas internal monologue that got it wrong but from a question I posted earlier it appears this age jump "stuck".

I totally understand why these things happen in a story with 15 million words being written with little to no editing, but I also am trying to figure out how to reconcile it. You could say ages and numbers dont matter or unreliable narrator, but then sometimes they actually do, so you need to go by some baseline of truth.

Has the author ever addressed this sort of thing in an interview? Are these things that eventually get edited later when they become audiobooks and ebooks and sold?

I realized a lot of my most recent posts are actually me just asking questions about inconsistencies so I will probably stop doing so unless i dearly need clarity but I wanted to get some opinions on how others read them and headcanon them or reconcile them.

For the record I am not complaining and totally empathize with how this happens. I know Sanderson has people specifically dedicated to fact checking stuff like this and GRRM did as well when he used to be an author. And their works have less words and full editing.

I also think paba would benefit from a Yelroan with the authority to go back and change some numbers when they can easily be tweaked but that is obviously their perogative and maybe not something they feel comfortable with.

Please no major spoilers past 9.27

I know math is pretty fast and loose in TWI but I have read the number "1000 new Earthers in Rhir" mentioned in two chapters about Rhir in early volume 9. They even mention 2 deaths making it 998. I would prefer no future spoilers, just trying to figure out what I should already "know" as a reader as of 9.27

Just wanted to confirm or clarify a few things I remember or thought I did and reconcile it with this:

1. The first ritual pulled about 60 Earthers to Rhir directly. Thats the number I think I remember that was sent out directly into combat and like 1/3 or so survived?

2. The rest of that ritual got sent around Innworld, including underwater, falling from the sky, creler nests etc. I think Ryoka speculated that based on how many people had iphones on them and didnt die probably 1000 total were summoned even if way less were currently alive.

3. I believe the 1000 number was more or less confirmed by the ritual spell and the number of miscarriages from Rhir.

4. The 2nd ritual was supposed to be way larger than the first and I think the number was going to be 100,000 but was lowered to 10,000. Also it was changed to pull from across the entire world.

5. The 2nd ritual obviously went through and again it sent Earthers across the entire world, (The ones that land in Desonis are proof of this I think).

It seems to me that everything sort of makes sense with a poorly understood/incomplete or whatever ritual acting up, but somehow Rhir got exactly 1000 the 2nd time when they did not get any sort of round logical number the first time?

Nitpicky question I know, but based on what I had remembered about the first ritual, unless I am completely forgetting something like them getting 100 original earthers, the 2nd ritual should have given them some random numher like 769 or 1121. Just stuck out to me a bit, but maybe this is explained later on and i should RAFO?

I am confused and I dont want to search reddit or the wiki and spoil myself if this is some actual plot thread or hidden skill but somehow Nailren and the Pride of Kelia were both at the Meeting of Tribes, escorting Antherr back home AND fighting with the horns/silver swords during the void goat attack at the exact same time. I even checked some of the comments on the TWI site for the relevant chapters and people mentioned it as a possible error in the spelling comment paba always posts.

I know there are plenty of inconsistencies in the story especially whenever pirate has to use math and that all seems fine in this web serial format, but this seems like either a really interesting doppelganger plot/hidden skill or a giant whoopsie that should have been fixed? I actually have no clue if there is any editing that goes into these chapters being turned into e-books/audiobooks. Is this the type of thing that would be edited at that point? (I know vol 1 and some of witch of webs was edited, although not the specifics or the process).

If its actually something that gets fixed or later makes sense in story just tell me to RAFO but if not...which one is true? I guess its also possible that it doesn't matter THAT much but it just seems so weird to me as I am reading it right now. Distances and times being off/unreliable feel more handwavable than an entire adventuring team being in the wrong event.

Does it ever feel like the author wishes they could have aged Mrsha faster than other characters or maybe started her out a bit older? The way she is written almost feels like she has aged up several years when as of 9.19 which is early Fall, its been at most 12-13 Innworld months (first met in Innworld winter year 1) since she arrived in the story.

Her IQ, EQ, and sometimes even physical descriptions (getting too big to hold or sit in laps) all seem like a child who has aged from 6 to maybe 9-11 but in the current chapter I am reading she is still a 7 year old girl with a 15 year old ekhtouch friend and a 12 year old witch friend. The children closer to her actual age (Visma, Ekirra, Cade) all seem to act like toddlers compared to her. Her precociousness is a bit of a running gag with the letter writing and Calanferian noble language but even when taken with a suspension of disbelief for humor's sake, she feels like a casualty of all the stuff from vol 1-8 somehow happening in only 16 months and vol 8 did a lot of the legwork pushing it the final 4 months. She has been through a lot of shit obviously which gives her worldly knowledge and perspective. But she is no Quarass, lacking childhood innocence or delights either. I also notice she stopped leveling as much as she did in the mid volumes, or they have been spread out to other classes, probably because she would be a lv 20 7 year old at this point at the rate she was initially going.

I am sure this is a hard balance for any author so this isnt really a harsh criticism, just more of an observation/curiosity for me. I wonder if this is even noticeable to readers who have been reading it for years and not binging it like I have been this year. Might even be more true for the author who is living all these povs in their head for 10+ years. Sometimes I notice other things relating to the very long Innworld year like that, where characters reference events that happened "a long time ago" and while true IRL it turns out it was less than 6 months ago Innworld time. I think I remember one line where someone actually said "a year ago" during Spring or early Summer which is obviouly impossible. Sorry for no direct references, didnt bother marking it down at the time.

All that said, Mrsha is still one of my absolute favorite characters in any piece of literature ever. I would not want to go back to the quiet/nearly feral version of Mrsha first introduced as it would take away so much from her storylines and growth. It just sometimes feels like Mrsha has gone through an entire coming of age plot in a year.

I am reading the chapter about the eater goat/ gargoyle invasion and I just feel completely clueless about where everyone is at this point. So many new smaller city names mentioned in this chapter. That + the new lands changing the continent has me craving a good map.

Spoilers for 8.64K in my question but nothing past that please:

How did Eldavin not notice the [Quarass]? He seemed to see through all other anti apprasial and disguise tricks during volume 8 at Wistram. And if the answer was that she knew a better way of anti appraisal why would she not have told Flos about it to arm Trey with that same method? Also did I miss something or was it ever explained in 8.64 how Viltach knew Troy was Trey? Is he equally as good at apprasial as Eldavin or did he have a spy network or something on Chandrar?

If this is RAFO just lmk, but I just got done reading 8.65 and it's still bugging me from a chapter ago lol.

I am nearing the end of vol 8 so if this is a RAFO thing from later on then lmk and I will wait but I was curious.

Example being [Archmage] and Archmage. As readers the brackets make it obvious but several times in the dialogue it seems the characters are actually able to distinguish it by speech alone.

Its also funny because it seems like people can't necessarily tell with a skill right away as we have seen people fake using skills or making up skills that weren't real.

I have come across a weird situation with her name as of 8.43

The audiobooks call her "lion - ett"

Her nickname from Erin is also "lion" in the audiobook.

There is a line in 8.43 where someone asks "Indeed Miss Lyonette? Or is it Lionette"

The audiobooks arent there yet but how would you even read that sentence out loud to make sense?

I am aware of the French city of Lyon being pronounced like "Lee -one".

I feel like 2 different audiobook narrators pronouncing her name as "lion-ette", the fact that Erin's nickname just sounds more normal if its "Lion", and there being another character actually named Leon all backed the "lion" way. The sentence from 8.43 just confuses the hell out of me though.

Was curious what other people found to be the most enjoyable or quality voices/accents in the audiobooks (both narrators).

Some of mine below:

Alevica (AP) the accent and the disdain/sass in her voice just fit perfectly for me

Erin (EB) see below

Seborn (AP) this has to have had some special effect or trick to it

Niers (AP) flawless

Bird/all the antinium (AP) flawless

Numbtounge (AP) the silky smooth delivery contrasted with the other goblins was chefs kiss

Flos (AP) (this one might be more by contrast in hindsight) but his bombastic tone and clear mirth really felt perfect

Ceria (AP) somehow the perfect mix of stereotypical accent with the irreverance that Ceria shows and "embarassment to her half elven immortality and refinement" others often make fun of her for

Honorable mention for Ryoka (EB). It was definitely hard to switch narrators mid series just because you get so used to their voices, and I think AP's ability to do male voices with no gender "leakage" from the narrator is up there with Jeff Hays doing female voices in Dungeon Crawler Carl, but the one thing she absolutely improved for me was Erin and Ryoka. Ryoka's voice direction overall still isn't my favorite (might be personal bias) but I think EB was able to moderate a lot of what I didn't love about her original voice. Erin went from a voice that while mostly pleasant sometimes made me cringe when it was whiny or sounded out of place to one that was more realistic and refreshing.

I am excited to see a lot of the new characters that EB gets to create on her own added to this list. I think its hard for her to "replace" most voices in my headcanon so the fact that she was able to replace the 2 "main characters" is an impressive feat already.

I am currently a quarter of the way through volume 8 and am noticing a lot of crossover now between the characters and plot of SoT. The pieces and references so far fit very well for the most part. I know that these volumes were released before even the first SoT book (especially stuff as far as back as Witch of Webs) so I was curious if the author had been writing the SoT series secretly in parallel with the main story or if they just had a general outline of plot points. Or I guess it is possible they reverse engineered the SoT series to fit the main story although for some reason that feels the least likely to me? Any of the three possibilities are impressive in their own way but I am extremely curious.

One of the first things I plan on doing when I finally catch up is look up old faqs/interviews etc for stuff like this and the author's process but searching this sub or entering the discord seem like a terrible idea until I am caught up and insulated from spoilers.

Also since it is tangentially related, is there a volume I need or would benefit reading The Last Tide before? I know it is mostly standalone but if there is even a bit of crossover I would love to read it in the right order.

P.S. Is there any projected release date for SoT book 4?

Major spoilers for the end of volume 7 in my venting below.

I just finished 8.01. (Magnolia just arrived in Zeres) so spoilers up until then are fine for me

I started in early June of this year via audiobook and have just switched over to reading on the official site as the audiobooks ran out of content. Basically I have been binging it hard and loving it. Up until the last 5 chapters. So I came here to vent, and maybe get some reassurances that I wasn't the only one and that some of of my grievances will be alleviated sooner rather than later?

I am not having fun with the Erin death/fake death or whatever. While it definitely subverted my expectations and everything about it has been well written and emotion inducing, I am currently not enjoying it for a few reasons.

1. Knowing that there is 0% chance that Erin stays dead makes it just feel like a detour I am forced to take. I have no doubt that she will be saved in some way.

2. Erin isn't leveling (this just bothers me that other Earthers might surpass her, and is me being biased and petty I will admit). She also isn't growing as a person though as she is literally in stasis.

3. It actually is detracting from other plot lines for me. The solstice party I was looking forward to all of volume 7? I was speed reading it and didnt give a flying fuck what was happening in the fae world because I just wanted to know if they would get the cure or not there. I would have savored that entire sequence of magic and wonder and all the revelations and implications normally. Instead something that should have been an amazing plot that didnt directly involve Erin ended up being about Erin and not in a satisfying way. To add to that, all the time that Ivolethe and Ryoka wasted thanking people and catching up ended up costing them the 30 seconds or whatever they needed to grab that scroll. It cheapens their entire reunion for me. I cant imagine re-reading that section and not internally screaming at them to hurry up. The gnollmoot is coming up and my only thoughts are "will the gnolls cure her". The horns were already considering going to the undead village but now they are doing it...for Erin. Geneva? She is now trying to solve the Erin conundrum. Az'Kerash? him too. The antinium had multiple plot threads going on and now they are also wrapped up in this singular event. It feels like all the plots that already had their own strengths are bending to this one "death". I havent got to a Ryoka chapter yet in vol 8 but obviously that will also revolve around this.

4. Sometimes removing a character temporarily in literature gives other characters a chance to breathe and grow on their own. TWI already does this by having multiple viewpoints. In fact, this just feels like the Celum/Lyonette growth thing all over again but magnified.

5. It is just mega depression. These chapters are actually depressing to read and its not like we didnt have plenty of that before.

6. I dont look at spoilers but it does seem pretty obvious to me that this will last a while, possibly all of volume 8. If it was going to be fixed quickly it would have happened at the end of vol 7

7. I cannot imagine a single slice of life section or chapter that I will be able to enioy until this is resolved. The Silverand sweeping thing? Normally I would have loved that but it just didnt do anything for me. It felt like words I was forced to read to get to the next part.

So to vent properly...why? (but please dont actually answer with future knowledge lol)

It just seems so unnecessary to me. There were literally dozens of major and minor plot threads to pull on and explore that did not involve Erin. If the story needed less Erin in it for a time she could have been offscreen slice of lifing or actually getting some time to relax and run a normal-ish inn.

I feel like I am in this position now where I have to grit my teeth and read as fast as I can to get back to her being alive. I will end up reading it regardless so you dont need to convince me not to drop the story or anything but I am struggling with each paragraph.

I wanted to see Erin at gnollmoot and I know that is now unlikely. I did not get to see Erin celebrate her birthday, meet Laken, or enjoy the fae. All of the bad stuff that occurred at the event due to the dead gods could still have happened with her there.

It reminds me of every book/tv show that does a resurrection arc or an "everyone gets split up arc". For me those personally are always super frustrating. They are often a way to split povs...but TWI already had that going for it in spades.

Maybe in the "future" that caught up readers are reading my post from this all seems quite whiny and silly because the author actually manages to make this all make sense and worth it but this is the first time since I started this series that I am not actively looking forward to every chapter. I enjoyed most interludes and other continent chapters including K, C, and some other less popular povs so I really think I am pretty open minded regardung the entire narrative structure.

Im not even sure what I am hoping for with this post. Anyone who is caught up will probably say that it is worth it to keep going and I have no doubt about that being true, but damn it is tough right now forcing myself to get through these parts especially when I know how long this might last.

I also 100% do not want spoilers or hints about when or how she will come back.

If I could ask one question I guess it would be does volume 8 get more tolerable or enjoyable to read? Do people feel the plot lines actually benefitted from this even in their initial reading of them? I dont know if I can read 20-50 more chapters of the entire world being depressed and upset with the same attention to detail that I did everything before this. I would instead just speed/skim read this entire volume.

Not being caught up really sucks for trying to get information about characters because the wiki is too dangerous for spoilers, especially since something like "Age" is often in the exact same spot that "Status : Deceased" or something might be.

Anyways I just got to the chapter with the Belarosian slow waltz in Pallass. Imani and Palt go together.

At first it caught me off guard because I thought there might be an odd age discrepancy but then I realized I wasn't actually sure. I thought all of Magnolia's eathers were like 15-17. I thought Wistram graduates would be in their mid to late 20s considering it takes them 6-8 years to graduate and they seem to be around late high school age to early college age when they start their first year from the Wistram Days chapters. The idea of a 26 year old centaur and a 15 year old human being involved gave me the ick but maybe my headcanon is misinformed.

So with that and other curiosity in mind, I would love to know the ages of the characters below in volume 7 if anyone has a clue:

1. Imani

2. Palt

3. Other wistram mages we have seen like Mons, Pisces

4. The rest of Magnolia's earthers like Joseph, Rose

5. Relc

6. Ryoka (i feel like i have conflicting info about her age in my head. She was about to start her freshmen year of college but somehow she is also 20+?)

7. Saliss/Oneida

8. Adventuring teams in general. In my head all the gold ranks feel like they are in their 30s or 40s but am I just attributing levels and skills to age? Are they all mostly in their 20s?

All spoiler free info is much appreciated

I think I accidentally just sorta spoiled something although I am not sure exactly what by searching for a world map. (Had something to do with the map of Izril).

I just finished the strategists at sea chapters in Lady of Fire and was looking for a world map to make sense of the sea movement, location of Belaros/minos/izril/chandrar to each other.

If anyone has a direct link to a correct (or as best as we know?) map that would have been available at that time with little to no spoilers I would greatly appreciate it.

As it is I could have sworn that Drath and Minos were East of Izril and Belaros was west of Izril and so the sea chapters really confused me unless storm sailor skills allow them to move at insane speeds relative to even modern earth naval vessels.

I just finished listening to King of Duels. I have also listened to all three SoT books. I was confused a bit on the continuity of something in 7.18M

The section below occurs in King of Duels which 100% has to be after Ghostsong because

1. Helena is apparently at Wistram and no longer a helpful servant

2. Belavierr is already in Izrel and all of Ghostsong occurs before Witch of Webs.

____

"Belavierr looked at Noass. Her immortal eyes narrowed on his face. Noass shivered for a second in the broadcast—after a ten minute delay. But he kept talking.

“…wonders what will become of the drama. Obviously, this is a scandalous affair. Also in the news, we have a wedding between one of Calanfer’s [Princesses] and a [Baron] of some other Terandrian Kingdom. I’ll find the names in a moment. Hopefully the planned nuptials won’t be disrupted by another bout of infidelity. Males, cover your tails! Ha, ha…that was a joke…”

____

So unless this is an entirely different princess and afaik the only unwed Calanfer princess is Lyonette and the youngest who is too young, this is referencing Seraphel and the Twin?

Or maybe it references a future SoT event with Seraphel and someone else (since the twin was not actually a baron), that will come up in a 4th SoT book?

I dont want future spoilers if its a RAFO situation, was just curious if I was getting the timeline wrong or people wrong.

I just finished my final AP audiobook. I was really dreading this because I hate change in general and I think AP is up there with only Jeff Hays, Travis Baldree and a few others with their ability to do both male and female voices without me noticing the difference of the narrator.

I started chapter 1 of King of Duels and as I expected the voices are harder for me to distinguish and the male voices do sound like they have a female undertone. I am sure I will get used to that and I have read that she improves as her books continue so hopefully I will embrace the new voices at some point.

That said I am wondering what speed people are using for her narration. I started TWI at 1.1 and quickly moved it to 1.2 and eventually 1.25x for AP. As fast and seamlessly as she narrates this was as far as I ever wanted to go for fear of missing something.

I normally would just manually adjust until it "felt good" with a new narrator but I am immediately caught off guard by the way she pauses in between sentences for a while. At first I thought to just bump it up to 1.5x but its not that she reads that slow, its that she takes those breaks, so that ends up a bit too fast. Did anyone else end up with a similar situation and if I may ask what your AP audible speed compared to Erin's speed was to try some variations? Do the pauses become less pronounced as she goes on and I should just wait this out?

I just finished listening to the Foliana interlude in Hell's Wardens towards the end of Volume 6.

I remember in a way earlier chapter that Niers said that Foliana only ate food as a way to warn the victim and that it had no meaningful power. I even remember people in the comments (I check the old reddit chapter threads after i listen to each one) speculating that maybe she did it to make it more challenging so as to level up faster.

However in the brothel interlude chapter she clearly is able to use taste synethasia as some sort of skill to help her find her quarry.

Without future spoilers:

1. Was Niers lying or misinformed?

2. Did I remember it wrong?

3. Or minor plot inconsistency?

I am listening to the audiobook of Huntsong in the SoT series right now. A little more than halfway through it. I can't tell if I misheard something, if there was an out of order chronology of scenes or if there was a mistake in the recording or something due to drafts/edits.

I believe she starts the book at lv 18. The night that Seraphel and Cara meet again at the theater, get drunk off expensive liquor and sang in the capital city at her mansion, I distinctly remember Seraphel passing out, leveling up to level 20 Widowed Princess and getting perfect pitch as a skill. Then later in the audiobook it talks about her being level 19.

I would try and go back and find both scenes to confirm but its hard to locate in an audiobook that way. It also seems like a rather lame lv 20 skill for a princess? It would make more sense if it was lv 19 but i am almost positive i heard the class change and lv 20.

I dont want future spoilers about her levels or class just clarification of what she should be right around the time she is in the Spider/shade court for the first time.