u/Own_Badger_8417

There is an important point regarding Episode 6 that I feel hasn't been discussed much: the way the family approaches and treats Luke during the service mirrors exactly how they treated Nell. It is identical and I believe this was done intentionally. That episode is a major reason why I view Luke as sharing the "baby of the family" role just as much as Nell did; we see that dynamic play out throughout the entire episode.

We constantly witness parallels between the treatment Luke and Nell receive from the family. To elaborate: before Luke even arrives at the service, Shirley and Theo are worried that his addiction will cause him to behave inappropriately and ruin everything, and they speak about him derisively. (The parallel here regarding Nell lies in her instability, mood swings, and impulsive outbursts; for these reasons, they also distrust or grow weary of her take, for instance, Nell showing up at Steven’s book signing and "ruining" his day and his work.) Furthermore, when Luke cannot bring himself to look at Nell’s body in the casket, Steve kneels to comfort him, while Theo and Shirley stand nearby, looking down at Luke with worried expressions. It is a clear, classic "weak link" moment;symbolism that plainly reveals who is perceived as the weak link in this family. From the start of the service, Steve is intensely focused on Luke, trying to comfort him and make the experience a little easier, because someone has to, right? Yet at the same time(even though Steve strives to support Luke)Luke soon becomes left forgotten and unseen. Because the family is trying to understand why Nell did this, and the answer, naturally, is to blame one another: Steve blames Hugh, Shirley blames Steve; Theo tries to mediate but only muddies the waters, becoming part of the conflict herself. And Luke? No one blames Luke regarding Nell, nor do they criticize him for failing to support her, because(just like Nell)he is the family’s helpless baby. No one expects him to bear such responsibility because he isn't even regarded as an adult much like Nell. And when the argument turns to the matter of the book, Luke is once again nowhere to be found. After all, why would he be? The issue of the book and its royalties(like the question of who let Nell down)belongs to the adults; there is no room for the family’s "helpless babies" in adult affairs.

So, what does Luke do? He plays his part: silent, passive, and distant, he stays out of the argument much like Nell did in the scene where Steve offered the royalties to his siblings. (Even though it was obvious Nell was uncomfortable with the book, she remained as passive as possible, expressing her dissatisfaction only by siding with Shirley, yet otherwise staying out of the fray; the twins play no active role in the family's arguments.) Luke seems fully aware that he has no place in this fight and quickly accepts his invisibility;save for two brief moments: he tries to call out to Steven once or twice to calm him down, though Steven, of course, cannot hear him; and then Theo.He reaches out a hand to help Theo when she falls. Theo’s reaction is to push Luke’s hand away, refusing to let him get close. Even though he plays no part in the family arguments and Luke knows this full well the small gestures he makes to try and calm his siblings down aren't recognized for what they are; instead, they just leave him feeling rejected by them once more. Throughout the episode, while everyone is tearing into each other, Luke is largely forgotten; despite being at his twin’s funeral, he receives no real support, and no one even seems to notice. Finally, Luke tries to talk to Hugh much like Nell grew closer to Hugh because she wasn't truly seen or taken seriously by her siblings. And of course, this makes the family take notice of Luke, because we know what can happen if he falls under their crazy father's influence just like Nell did, right? Steven steps in out of a protective instinct; while Luke tries to tell Steven that Nell didn't kill herself, Steven lashes out at Hugh without actually listening to Luke. And naturally,of course the conversation quickly shifts away from concern for Luke and back to the subject of their father's madness and blaming him for everything. Of course.

"No one could see me." That sentiment doesn't just apply to Nell(it holds true for every Crain child to some extent)but I think Nell and Luke are the ones who truly embody it; even at Nell's funeral, the focus isn't really on her, and even at his twin's funeral, Luke is forgotten. Because that is the issue. That is the situation regarding the family dynamics: the fact that, even though the others try to be there for the twins, they somehow fail to truly see them. Nell and Luke are both the family members who receive the most attention and care,they family's helpless babies and at the same time, the members who are never heard or seen, who are forgotten and whose very existence goes unnoticed. And that breaks my heart for both of them.

What do you think?Do you agree?

I absolutely love the scene in Episode 7 where Steven and Luke are at Nell's grave! I feel like this scene hasn't been discussed enough; whenever it is brought up, I often see people criticizing Steven for his attitude toward Luke, and I honestly don't get it;how can you be angry with him in that moment?

It’s one of the scenes where I relate to and appreciate Steven the most, because you can clearly see his fear of losing someone. In fact, this might be the very moment where we most clearly see just how terrified Steven is for one of his siblings. In that scene, Steven isn't being harsh with Luke; he simply doesn't know what to do and cannot control his reactions because he is in a state of panic. His younger brother claims to be seeing his deceased twin and their mother! Naturally, Steven panics; while experiencing hallucinations is a serious matter in any rational world, this is happening at the funeral of his dead sister;the very sister who, just like their mother, lost her sanity and died by suicide. At that moment, the only thing on Steven's mind is that history is repeating itself. He fears that Luke is following in the footsteps of their mother and Nell and that he will have to attend a third funeral. Having already been forced to bury his baby sister, he is terrified he will have to bury his baby brother as well. One twin is gone, and now the other is slipping away too. He failed Nell, and now it’s Luke’s turn;that is what is running through Steven's mind. When he says, "I don't want to bury you, too, do you understand?" that is exactly what he means. He believes he won't be able to stop it or save him this time either.

To snap Luke out of it, he even opens up about himself: he admits;likely for the first time in his life;that he, too, has been seeing things this week. He does this because he wants Luke to truly listen and believe that Steven understands him; he wants to convince Luke that these visions are merely hallucinations, so that Luke doesn't share the same fate as Nell and their mother. Steven is so terrified in that scene that he confesses;probably for the first time ever to anyone, let alone a sibling;that he has also been seeing "crazy" things, and it is a truly heart-wrenching...

In that scene, Steven isn't angry with Luke, nor does he adopt a condescending attitude; he is simply afraid. He is afraid of losing his other baby sibling after Nell, and this fear drives him to open up to one of his siblings to this extent for the very first time. And I really loved watching that.What do you think?

A fundamental argument often raised in criticisms regarding Dean stopping Sam from completing the trials in Season 8 is this: Dean accepted Sam being trapped in the Cage in Season 5, so why doesn't he accept it again in Season 8(or throughout the rest of the series?) I believe this is a deeply flawed perspective.

The reality is that in the Season 5 finale, Dean didn't have to choose between the world and Sam, because saving Sam wasn't even an option. While trying to stop Lucifer, Sam was destined to either die, succeed in defeating him and remain trapped in the Cage, or with his soul imprisoned in Lucifer's vessel turn into a monster while enduring agony. Saving Sam,whether his body or his soulwas impossible and Dean was utterly helpless. The world could have been destroyed, and he still wouldn't have been able to save Sam; the world could have been spared and he still wouldn't have been able to save Sam. The tragedy lay in the fact that there was no option to save him. Therefore, Dean didn't choose between Sam and the world in the Season 5 finale; faced with a situation where he would lose his brother regardless, he simply stood by him to ensure an ending that aligned with Sam's own wishes and terms.

So no, I don't think this contradicts the situation in Season 8. In Season 8, he made a choice;he chose Sam over the world. In Season 5, however, there was no choice to be made.And at that point, that was the story's greatest tragedy; for Dean,whose very essence lay in protecting and looking after his brother,was seeing, for the first time and with a sense of helplessness, that he would never be able to do so. Do you agree?

If Sam hadn't volunteered to carry out the plan to sacrifice himself in Season 5, could he have survived in the long run (without becoming Lucifer), or was his fate already sealed at that point—leaving him with no choice but to either die or become Lucifer?

Sam and Dean's codependency is frequently discussed, but one aspect that isn't talked about enough, in my opinion, is how this dependency steadily intensifies throughout the series. To give an example—perhaps the clearest one—in Season 4, Dean is determined to stop Sam from turning into a monster, into something he isn't; he even locks Sam in the panic room, despite the risk of him dying there, because he had promised not to let Sam transform into something he wasn't. Yet, in Season 9, when Sam is on the verge of death, Dean allows an angel to violate Sam's body and soul—solely to keep him alive. By that point, he had already seen that angels couldn't be trusted and that an angel possessing a human body almost always led to terrible consequences. But he does it anyway, even though he knows full well that Sam doesn't want it. Dean breaks the promise he made in Season 2—never to let Sam turn into something he wasn't—by the time Season 9 rolls around, despite having done everything in his power to keep that vow back in Season 4. Over the years, the level of dependency clearly escalated to a dangerous degree.

Dean was always deeply dependent on his brother, but I believe that dependency grew significantly as the years went by; this situation is one of the prime examples of that. And I think this is very realistic, because codependent relationships often work that way: the level of dependency just keeps rising—increasing more and more—until one of the two parties manages to break the cycle. And in my view, the person capable of breaking that cycle was always Sam, not Dean.

I should also point out that I don't blame Dean, nor am I angry with him. I understand him; Sam was dying, and Sam was the only family Dean had left. I just think this is a perfect example of how the codependent nature of their relationship kept escalating. So, I’m not angry with Dean or judging him. Do you agree?

Do you think Sam still harbored a secret longing for a normal life even in the final seasons, or do you think that desire within him had died out? I’ve read that one of the reasons many people disliked the finale was that Sam returned to a normal life—despite having long since moved past those dreams and grown to love hunting; in fact, some argued that, for this very reason, Sam could never truly be happy with a normal life again—and this got me thinking. First of all, I get it. I certainly understand why people feel that way; Sam transformed from a nerdy college student into a seasoned, successful hunter, and we saw him adapt to that lifestyle over time. So, I understand why it might feel like a regression in character development for some. However, I don't think this necessarily means Sam didn't still harbor a spark of longing for a normal life deep down. Sam might be a skilled hunter who adapted to the lifestyle, yet still yearn for a normal existence; both can be true at the same time.

Furthermore, whether or not Sam grew to love the hunting life, it certainly doesn't mean he was incapable of finding happiness in a normal life. Hunting wasn't the only thing Sam knew; he had more experience with and exposure to a normal life than Dean did. Also, while Dean’s life was built around Sam first and hunting second, that was never the case for Sam. He may have come to love hunting and embraced his family's path rather than rejecting it, but it was never the "only option" or the "only path" for him. He wasn't like Dean.What do you think?

To begin with, I should state that the aspect of the series I find most confusing is how the alternate universes work; so, please bear with my silly questions. Right, here goes.

Are the versions of Sam and Dean we see in alternate universes consistent with the characters of "our" Sam and Dean, or are they completely different and independent? For instance, in that one episode-"The end"episode-we hear that the alternate Dean hadn't spoken to Sam for five years and had sent him to the "big showdown" alone. This came as a huge shock to the Dean of the present—the "original" Dean—because, even though he and Sam had parted ways in his own timeline during a rough patch, a five-year estrangement or sending Sam to that showdown solo was never part of the picture. I know they were going through a difficult separation in their own timeline back then, but the fact that the original Dean was so surprised suggests that a rift of that magnitude wasn't something he had ever imagined. Our Dean wouldn't have done that. In this case, the alternate Dean from that episode doesn't align with the original Dean, does he? But shouldn't the alternate-universe versions match the original personalities? Can anyone explain this?

I’ve seen a few posts on Tumblr claiming that, unlike when Sam died,when Dean was able to move on and find happiness (referring to the year he spent with Lisa and Ben, though in reality, Sam wasn't dead but in the Cage, and Dean was still trying to bring him back—and he even told Sam he hadn't been happy at all that year; personally, I think that year gets overblown, but that’s a separate issue)Dean became suicidal after both of Cass's deaths, even going so far as to say he was suicidal in Season 13 because of Cass's death. Essentially, these posts argued that Dean was far more devastated by Cass's death than by Sam's.

Personally, these posts really surprised me because, in my view, it’s always been clear that Sam is the person Dean loves most;Dean even tells Sam this himself in Season 8. Given the show's core dynamics and the fact that Dean sold his soul solely for Sam, I think this is indisputable. However, it is true that after Cass's death, Sam and Bobby notice Dean acting in a way that suggests suicidal tendencies; this confused me a bit, and I was curious to hear your take on these Tumblr comments. (Personally, even though he did act as if he were suicidal, I don't believe Cass's death was the actual cause, and I think that’s a massive oversimplification. If that were the only reason, he would have tried to sell his soul for Cass, too.)What do you think?

Do you think Sam was able to find happiness after Dean's death? Most people seem to think he wasn't.(likely because, in the flashback where he sits in Dean's car, we clearly see him suffering in that moment.)

Personally, I believe he was happy. Of course, he missed Dean and was still in pain over his loss but I think Sam was happy nonetheless. Otherwise, the entire point of the series finale would have been lost. The show wanted to give them both their happy endings: a normal life for Sam, and Sam's happiness for Dean. Dean couldn't have been happy without Sam—so the reverse scenario wouldn't have worked—but Sam *could* be. He could find happiness even while missing Dean and grieving for him; that was the difference between the brothers. They would have done anything for each other, and they were dependent on one another in certain ways—I don't deny that. But I believe that due to the differences in their personalities and dynamics, while Dean couldn't have found happiness, Sam could; that is why this scenario worked while the reverse wouldn't have.And this is never about loving more or less; it is about the nature and type of their love.

While Dean felt a love for Sam that was more akin to a parent's love for a child than a sibling's, Sam felt both the love a child has for a parent and the love a sibling feels. Most importantly, Dean’s identity was defined through Sam—looking after him, protecting him, keeping him safe and alive, and ensuring his well-being. Yet, despite the codependent relationship they shared, Sam was always more independent than Dean because his identity was not defined by Dean. Consequently, unlike Dean, he still had a chance to find happiness. In Season 2, following Sam’s first death, Dean looks at Sam’s body and says, "I failed at the one thing I had to do, the one thing I had to accomplish." Because he defined himself through Sam, happiness was something he could only experience with Sam. For Sam, however, that was never the case; there were always other avenues for him to find happiness, and that was the fundamental difference between him and Dean.

In short, I think Sam was truly happy, despite losing Dean, and that is exactly what Dean would have wanted. To me, that was the whole point of the finale.

In your opinion;if Sam had died instead of Dean in the finale, could Dean have gone on living until he died of old age-just like Sam—or would he have been unable to do so? And why?