u/PlateRight712

Re: the Kristoff piece on Israeli prison rape. 

First: Does someone want to present evidence that there’s a secret cadre of Israelis training multiple dogs to sexually assault men on command? Please share sources if you do. There is one country I know of that definitely used dogs against war prisoners, at least for intimidation. That was the US in the Abu Ghraib prison. Weird how no one holds it against us – good thing we’re not Israel!

Beyond that, Kristoff relies almost completely on anonymous sources, saying they would face retribution if they were identified. 

Having all anonymous sources means that no one can ever prove that Kristoff is wrong. He provides no locations, dates, perpetrators. We might have expected Kristoff to have asked to review some footage of videos from Israeli prisons. But there’s no indication that he did. 

Kristoff spoke to one man, Sami al-Sai, who gave his name. He has said (see NPR and the Times) he was sexually assaulted in Israeli prisons. He filed a petition early in his imprisonment with the Israeli Supreme Court, saying that he was wrongly detained, that the food was bad, and that he was treated badly, but he didn’t mention sexual violence. There doesn’t seem to have been any retaliation and he was released one year ago.

For other sources, Kristof uses former Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert, who said he didn’t know anything about Israeli abuse of Palestinian prisoners. After that disclaimer, he said he “was not surprised by the accounts [Kristof] had heard.” Olmert himself, was formerly convicted and imprisoned on charges of fraud and bribery. Is he a reliable source? 

Another source, cited more than Olmert, is Euro-Med, an organization tied to Hamas. Euro-Med’s leader, Ramy Abdu, called publicly for “a million October 7ths,” and he has repeatedly peddled implausible, and discredited, claims that Israel “harvests organs” of Palestinians. Kristof similarly relies on a United Nations Human Rights Council report, which is itself based on anonymous reporting described as “a single primary source.” 

Since everyone in this thread is an armchair speculator, I’ll add my own opinion. There probably is rape in Israeli prisons against Palestinian prisoners, especially those who participated in the well-documented rapes of October 7 (remember they used their own phones to show bodies of women they multilated and murdered). Every war seems to have soldiers who engage in this disgusting behavior, although sexual abuse is absolutely not Israeli government policy, not even under Netanyahu. These claims should be investigated ethically and thoroughly. This NYT hit piece - they got around fact-checking by putting it on the editorial page - is neither.

 

 

First, let's just get this out of the way: Does someone want to present evidence that there’s a secret cadre of Israelis training multiple dogs to sexually assault men on command? Please share sources if you do. There is one country I know of that definitely used dogs against war prisoners, at least for intimidation. That was the US in the Abu Ghraib prison. Weird how no one holds it against us – good thing we’re not Israel! 

Beyond that, Kristoff relies almost completely on anonymous sources, saying they would face retribution if they were identified.

Having all anonymous sources means that no one can ever prove that Kristoff is wrong. He provides no locations, dates, perpetrators. We might have expected Kristoff to have asked to review some footage of videos from Israeli prisons. But there’s no indication that he did.

 Kristoff spoke to one man, Sami al-Sai, who gave his name. He has said (see NPR and the Times) he was sexually assaulted in Israeli prisons. He filed a petition early in his imprisonment with the Israeli Supreme Court, saying that he was wrongly detained, that the food was bad, and that he was treated badly, but he didn’t mention sexual violence. There doesn’t seem to have been any retaliation and he was released one year ago. 

For other sources, Kristof uses former Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert, who said he didn’t know anything about Israeli abuse of Palestinian prisoners. After that disclaimer, he said he “was not surprised by the accounts [Kristof] had heard.” Olmert himself, was formerly convicted and imprisoned on charges of fraud and bribery. Is he a reliable source? 

Another source, cited more than Olmert, is Euro-Med, an organization tied to Hamas. Euro-Med’s leader, Ramy Abdu, called publicly for “a million October 7ths,” and he has repeatedly peddled implausible, and discredited, claims that Israel “harvests organs” of Palestinians. Kristof similarly relies on a United Nations Human Rights Council report, which is itself based on anonymous reporting described as “a single primary source.” 

Finally, since everyone in this thread is an armchair speculator, I’ll add my own opinion. There probably is rape in Israeli prisons against Palestinian prisoners, especially those who participated in the well-documented rapes of October 7 (remember they used their own phones to show bodies of women they multilated and murdered). Every war seems to have soldiers who engage in this disgusting behavior, although sexual abuse is absolutely not Israeli government policy, not even under Netanyahu. These claims should be investigated ethically and thoroughly. This NYT hit piece, they got around fact-checking by putting it on the editorial page, is neither.