u/ZeroEffectDude

We lost the first fixture 2-1.

A strong line-up, predicted:

Italy Under 21 (4-3-3): Palmisani; Lulli, Comuzzo, Ahanor, Bartesaghi; Pisilli, Faticanti, Ndour; Liberali, Cisse, Koleosho.

https://sport.quotidiano.net/-calcio-formazioni-italia-polonia-under-21-128abf30

8 of those players could easily be in the senior team. Pisilli, Lulli and Cisse would be good starters tonight.

Good luck!

Italy (4-3-3): Donnarumma; Di Lorenzo, Mancini, Bastoni, Ruggeri; Barella, Romano, Doumbia; Vergara, Scamacca, Maldini.

Tough, tough to read DiLo and Mancini but we know we are going to see rotation. And let's be positive, if Leoni and Palestra were fit I highly doubt those two would be there. I think Gabbia or even Gatti are solid alts when Scalvini is being rotated.

The positives: Romano, Ruggeri, Doumbia and Vergara are getting crucial starts. Inacio is in the match day team and will definitely get on the pitch to lock him in for the Azzurri.

I think Scamacca and Barella have something to prove today. Barella to refind his most incisive form for Italy and Scamacca to do SOMETHING in an Italy shirt.

The main thing for me: can Mancini get the team to play his way, with the same commitment, no matter who takes the field?

Enjoy the game.

A very needed result and performance.

First: Hands up, I was too harsh on Frattesi. He played really well, I was wrong.

THE GOOD

The first half is exactly how we want Italy to play. High tempo, quick passing and direct.

I think the whole front line showed great movement and link up play. Rapsadori put in a very good No10 (ish) performance.

Given the awful pitch and conditions, our passing and movement was very crisp.

In the first half Fagioli controlled the midfield really well as the deep lying midfielder we really need. A very mature and accomplished half.

I also want to call out Kayode (obviously) and Scalvini. I thought they looked good on that side. Scalvini got caught out with a through ball. But I also saw him look great one on one, facing up to his man in a way that Mancini and Coppola compltely failed to do on Belgium's second goal.

THE NOT-SO-GOOD

Although we created a lot of chances in the first third of the second half, we then simply dropped off and completely lost control of midfield. Partly to be expected as Turkiye HAD to show something and Guler woke up too. But it shows how brittle we still are in that central area. Two passes and Turkiye were clean through us. Tonali played a lot better mostly through effort. I do think Fagioli, Doumbia and Frattesi have made a good case for themselves so far. Barella slows us down a lot imo. We looked much better without him. Great little player but it doesn't click for Italy.

Bastoni still looked very uncomfortable in a 4 man defence when under pressure. He was getting twisted and rinsed in the last 20 minutes. He is not my choice for that position. He is there because we have little alternative.

Ruggeri had a good first half, bad second half. That left side was weak for us with Bastoni and Ruggeri second half. Calafiori was missed, in that sense.

I thought it was strange to bring Scamacca on late in the seocnd half, when the game was crying out for pace. An out ball like Kean would have been ideal. Odd choice but maybe he just wanted to give Scamacca minutes.

OVERALL

A breath of fresh air. Good play, confident touches (it's been a very long time since we have seen the one time flicks and lay offs) and GOALS. Mancini must see how much more bounce and confidence there is in the team when he injects it with youth. I hope to see Inacio get his chance in the next two games and I would consider starting Doumbia for Tonali (who surely can;t play every game).

EDIT: A personal annoyance -- the way Ruggeri tries to run around with his arms around his back anywhere near the box. yes, there is a risk of giving away a penalty but i think defenders who try to run with their arms behind their back a) look like dicks 2) are perpetually off balance and begging the attacker to skin them alive! Di MArco does it too. What is is about left backs?!

It's kind of crept up on me that our options for dynamic wide players has really improved.

Just taking a look at our wide midfielders and LBs and RBs right now:

Calafiori

Palestra

Kayode

Lulli

Ruggeri

Bellanova

Zappacosta

Di Marco

Bartesaghi

Bernasconi

Cambiaso (seems very out of form and favour)

In attack, wide players for Italy are still pretty scant but not as dismal as it looked a year or two ago. We have enough to play a decent 433, i think.

Young / emerging players listed only as it's probably time to move on from the likes of Zaccagni, Raspadori, Cheisa, Pellegrini, Politano. (Orsolini could get a shot though he seems to be quiet for Italy when given a chance.)

Inacio

Cisse

Koleosho

Fini (interesting player)

Gnonto (needs to prove himself as a productive top flight starter)

Liberali (versatile to play as a wide player in front 3 imo)

Anyone I am missing worth mentioning?

The likes of Savona, Fortini, Cambiaghi could all contribute too.

Unexpected move but having a younger guy in there -- and a euro winner who will get a long with Mancini.... I like it.

What do you guys think of Kean going to Como, if it happens?

My opinion of Kean has been a complete 180 over the last two seasons, I must admit. I used to think he was something of a waster. But I really love his effort and he became pretty prolific for Italy. He seems to be much more consistent now.

Playing CL football with Como would be good for him and terrible for Fiorentina, who are building a very nice squad. Saying that, seeing Liberali and Kean on an up and coming Como would be good for the azzurri. interesting move.

We are in a very decent place with Pio and Kean competing for what will probably be one place if Mancini plays 433.

If Retegui finds a better league and club, even better. He as great for Atalanta in that one great season he had.

Overall a good weekend for young Italians. Cisse, Kayode and Pio scored. Calafiori got an assist. Sad to see Liberali unused, the way Fabregas talks about him is always positive, so I hope he plays the next game (especially as Como were average).

I'm also wondering about Camarda and Commotto -- how will their seasons play out?

It's been very quiet on the Azzurri front since Mancini, Ranieri and Zola were confirmed.

The next important moment will be the squad call ups. This is where Mancini sets the tone and shows us his intentions.

Outside of the obvious quality guys (Donna, Calafiori, Tonali, Barella, Pio, Kean)... who do you think will be the youngsters called up?

Not necessarily who you WANT... but who Mancini will likely call?

I'm thinking Liberali, Ahanor, Palestra, Kayode, Inacio, Bartesaghi are very likely.

Guys like Vergara, Camarda, Chiarodia, Leoni (if fit in Sept), even Pafundi stand a good chance.

Then we have guys we probably don't want to see again like Cristante, Di Lorenzo, Politano... do you think Mancini will call up any of those guys?

Will Chiesa be called on or will Mancio refuse until he gets first team football?

A big (but welcome) surprise would be Tresoldi, locking him in for an official competitive cap.

I hope Mancini is watching.

I was on hols in Italy when the ridiculous week unfolded.

Just wanted to share a few thoughts I had.

Had we simply appointed the Mancini / Ranieri / Zola trinity from the get go, I think the majority of people would be relatively okay with it all.

I think it's a very good team to bring stability back to the national set up. Mancini and Ranieri's comments were very encouraging. They understand the big challenges are brining technical ability and creativity back to the youth set up. The kind of freedom that created players like Del Piero, Totti, Zola and Mancini himself. It's a tough job and the time these guys have, all they can do is set the first pieces in motion. What Mancini will bring is a higher minimum level of good football and results. He seems genuine in his regret about the way things ended. What I think everyone should keep in mind regarding his exit was who he was dealing with - Gravina.

Ageists will say Ranieri is too old, but he is the perfect guy for this job. He loves the azzurri, he is genuine and he is a hard ass when he needs to be. Experience and respect of his peers is critical to bring about change in the vain and political world of Italian football.

Regarding the Maldini debacle... I do not blame Maldini. If he was giving assurances he could pick the coach, walking away is the right thing to do. I also do not believe for one moment that Pirlo's affiliation with the Russian betting company is a real issue. Itwas simply brought up because the incumbents at the federation didn't want Maldini in to shake things up. I was fine with Pirlo as a manager. Anyone capable of looking at his results in context could see he has real talent as a manager and I'd expect him to really grow into the role. Maldini and Pirlo are true legends of italian football and they were disrespected.

Back to Mancini as manager. He will re-stabalize results and performances quickly, using the nations league as an immediate acid test for certain players. My sense is he is not going to be overly loyal to his past winners like he was last time. Except maybe with chiesa.

So I think we are going to see him make some statement selections and moves very soon. I expect him to select Kayode and Tresoldi (or at least approach Tresoldi before his first squad announcement). I would also expect him to select Liberali, Camarda and maybe even Commotto with the likes of Ahanor, Doumbia, Vergara etc etc in the mix.

I've seen speculated line ups on here with Bastoni playing in a 4-man defence as CB. Guys, were your eyes closed for the past three years? Bastoni cannot play as a CB even in a 3. He is brilliant as a left CB in a 3 man defence, that's it. You cannot pick him in a 4 man defence. I would see it as a very worrying sign if Mancini plays Bastoni in a back four.

here's something we could see under Mancini. in a 4231

Donna

Palestra Scalvini Calafiori Kayode/ Ruggeri

Barella/Pisilli Tonali

Vergara/ Chiesa Liberali Kean

Pio

or a straight 433

Donna

Palestra Scalvini Calafiori Kayode/ Ruggeri

Barella Tonali Pisilli

Liberali Pio Kean

I think Pirlo would be a bold and clever appointment.

https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/topic/598654-recreating-andrea-pirlos-football-thesis-il-calcio-che-vorrei/

If you look at his managerial thesis, he is committed to ball playing center-backs, of which Italy have an abundance right now.

It's a very fluid and clear philosophy.

Pirlo knows how he wants his teams to play without being stuck to a 433 or 352 or 4321 etc. He adapts the formation based on the team available.

His tenure at Juventus was very underrated if you look at it closely. They played really attacking and free-scoring football at times. A joy to watch when it really clicked. Remember, this was his first position as manager (during covid, to boot). His second season would have been interesting.

He played a system that allowed Ronaldo to score 36, Chiesa 15, Morata 10+ and Cuadrado to break the assist record (19).

He also conceded less goals than Sarri, finishing just 3 points off the top and winning two cups. Look at Juve since then. An absolute horror show.

His record elsewhere (Samp, Turkey) is good, if you see what those clubs did both before and after he left.

Remember, managers like Low (Germany) and Southgate (England) were not the most coveted or accomplished managers in their leagues when they were appointed.

Or look at Prandelli... who has a similarly progressive approach to Pirlo. He was not the best or most celebrated club manager. But he was a great fit for Italy in 2012. That's the best -- and most effective -- football we played for years.

It's not always the biggest name or the coach who has won everything who makes a good fit for the NT.

It can be just as much about having a clear identity and commanding respect.

In addition, Pirlo doesn't have the undeniable baggage that both Mancini and Conte bring to the table. I think that's why Maldini is looking beyond them right now.

There is something to be said for a relatively young manager with a real passion for the NT, combined with tactical know-how.

I'm on board with the idea, if it happens.

With Maldini and Leonardo installed in the big technical roles, their first big decision will be a critical sign of their vision for the NT.

Who would you prefer to see in the azzurri hot seat? The options below are at least somewhat realistic. For example, I have left out guys like Maresca, Farioli and De Zerbi as they are in relatively new roles and seem very happy.

1. Ancelotti

Close relationship with Maldini and Leonardo. At the end of a long and incredibly successful career. Coming off a disappointing spell with Brasil.

2. Mancini

We all know the story. A winner. Really good football. Great with youth and debuts. Has built good teams before. Left in a bad way.

3. Conte

As above - we know what Conte brings. big winner in league football. Pragmatist football (usually 352). Instant impact. Failed in Europe. Loves Di Lorenzo. Becomes antagonistic after 1-2 years and leaves.

4. Guardiola

Re-emerging as a potential target. Great football if he has the players to execute. Obsessed with difference making details. Inspires belief. Foreign coach would be a first for us. Like Ancelotti, never really been a guy to build a team from the ground up.

5. Pioli

Close relationship with Maldini - recent success. Decent football and system. Eye for talent. A pretty safe and steady pair of hands. Equally, not an inspiring, statement choice.

6. Baldini

Stick with the youth team coach. Has had success at youth levels. Plays good football and more modern formation (433). Obviously great at developing kids. Some risk in his lack of big club success.

7. Inzaghi

Simone was incredibly successful with Inter and kept Serie A in the conversation by guiding Inter to two Champion's League finals. Plays a very specific and fluid version of 352. Not really known for developing youth with Inter. Would get the most out of disappointing Bastoni and Di Marco.

8. Other

Is there someone else floating around world football you believe would be better than any of the choices above? Farioli is a slight possibility as he has had a very successful year and could dip out. Montella. Gasperini. Pirlo. De Rossi. Ranieri. Pocchetino. Zidane. Xavi. Motta. Whoever. Name someone you believe is the messiah we need. I can actually see Maldini and Leonardo going for someone off the beaten track.

I'll be sending these results directly to Maldini.

The azzurri is about to experience a wave of very talented Italian players of African descent.

This is a first for the national team on this scale and I think it is exciting. Hopefully these players can have the impact for Italy that players of similar heritage have had for France (and Spain to a lesser degree).

Guys like Kayode, Cisse, Idrissou, Ekhator, Anahor, Mane, Amey, Idele, Idrissi,

There is some real talent and flair there.

I left out Gnonto, Udogie, N'Dour, Kean because they've all played at senior level.

Who do you think is best out of the group -- or could be the best in the future?

Anyway, it'll be fun to see these players develop and I hope they get enough time on the pitch to grow.

EDIT: adding players I overlooked: Doumbia, Elimoghale

EDIT2: Apparently I am a racist for looking at a legitimate cultural phenomenon Italy is experiencing. The same phenomenon that changed French, English and Spanish football. Apologies. Apparently I also have a fetish for black people. I attempted to talk about this subject in a plain and adult way. But I should have known....

Bosnia face USA this week.

That could have been us but for the red card / terrible pens.

Below, I'm just choosing players from who Gattuso played in the two qualifiers, to try and best replicate who might've played in the world cup (rather than choosing my best team of all available players).

Donna

Gatti/Mancini-Calafiori-Bastoni

Palestra-Locatelli-Tonali Barella/Pisilli-Spina

Pio-Kean

I've swapped Bastoni and Calafiori, left Palestra and Spina on in place of Politano and Di Marco as we looked twice as good, even with ten men, without two slow wing backs who can't run or dribble.

How do you think this team does vs USA?

I only recently found out that you pay extra tax as a club when you purchase an Italian player. So it is materially beneficial to buy a foreign player.

Can you really blame clubs for not buying Italians?

Why not just reverse that tax law?

Sure, the path from academy to regular serie a football is a different issue... but we are literally penalizing clubs from buying domestic players, it's nuts!

EDIT: i was wrong about this as someone kindly enlightened me below. i'll leave the post up as i'm learning good stuff.

Italy were the highest scoring team not to qualify.

I think I'm right in saying they had the 3rd or 4th highest goals scored out of ALL of the teams (including those qualified).

Normally scoring goals is our big problem. In recent years we've relied on goals from midfield and set pieces with frontmen like Immobile and Bellotti just never scoring for us.

But not anymore.

We had Kean hit something like 7 goals in his last 5 qualifiers. He's our most prolific striker since Vieri with 13 in 26.

Retegui has been a regular scorer for us with 11 in 28. I really hope he comes back to europe to stay sharp. He is an asset.

And now Pio is on the scene with 5 in 9.

We have three frontmen who can score. That's very unusual for us.

Even more unusual is our terrible defensive record.

Our defensive line was atrocious. 80%+ of the goals we conceded were from set pieces. We shipped 4 goals against Israel. 7 against Norway. This is why we didn't qualify.

I think one of the main reasons for this is the lack of a pure defender to play ccb.

Say what you want about Acerbi but he is the profile of player we need there. absolute animal at winning the ball, winding up strikers and winning headers. Were Acerbi 28 years old, he would be the first name on the team sheet, given what we need.

We have too many ball players in there. Bastoni at ccb is the biggest disaster of all. he cannot play there and looks like he wants to cry. Gatti isn't the best defender in the world but once he came on vs bosnia you could see the benefit of having a ball winner in there. a guy that just wins a tackle and just moves the ball to midfield. no fuss.

I think Gabbia might evolve into the type of plyer we need. Do you guys see any other pure ball winners emerging? Comuzzo played pretty well in the friendlies but I don't know yet. Leoni is a bit of an all rounder so maybe it's him, given time to recover.

To compound the problem, when we play 352, with Politano and Di Marco drafted in to defend, we have the worst of both worlds: two wingbacks who can't run and can't defend to save their lives.

I am not a fan of 3 at the back. I don't care of the clubs play it. every kid has played a 442 in their lives. we should play 4 at the back with two wingbacks, one ball winner and one ball player is the better balance. at the moment, for me that means:

Palestra on the right.

Either Scalvini or Gabbia or Leoni partnering Calafiori in the center.

And Kayode playing as a righty on the left or Ruggeri (whoever is in form). Kayode can also come in for Palestra if he's not available.

there's also the option of playing Calafiori purely on the left.

We also lack a vocal presence in defence.

Calafiori, Donna, Scalvini, Bastoni are all very quiet types. Bonucci and Chiellini were the kind of guys to grab you and throw you about if you needed it. We need a leader in defence to come through.

I'm certain Mancini will be thinking about this already. His teams are usually pretty mean at the back. So I'm kean to see what his solution is, who is ideal pairing is.

What would your combination of CBs be in a back four (which mancini is likely to play I think)?

We have these guys to choose from, basically:

Gabbia, Gatti, Ahahnor, Coppola, Comuzzo, Bastoni, Calafiori, Leoni, Comuzzo, Chiarodia, Scalvini.

If you had to pick two CBs as a partnership to lead Italy over the next 5 years, who do you go with?

We have a lot of players coming through (or now very established) that are very solid and with good management can get Italy back to being a competitive nation. I have no doubt about that.

Players like Leoni, Scalvini, Calafiori, Pisilli, Palestra, Ahanor, Bartesaghi, Gabbia, Kayode, Ricci, Pio, Tonali, Ruggeri, Kean -- honestly, these are good players.

What we really lack is a potential star creative midfielder, deep lying playmaker or dazzling attacker. Let's be honest, we all tune in to watch those kinds of players more than any other, don't we? Someone who can draw the attention and provide some fantasy.

Verratti and Chiesa were our last true world class creative players since the retirement of Pirlo. Players with real skill. Verratti was an absolute dream on his day.

I don't know enough about young Italian players in these positions to know who has the potential and who doesn't.

Inacio has caught the eye. Liberali too. The young Juve player Thomas Corgliano seems to be getting a lot of buzz. I've also heard good things about Comotto but don't know what kind of player he really is.

But for those of you who know more about the youth players than me, which youngsters have the chance to be a top deep midfield playmaker, #10-style link man or a killer on the wing?