u/agitatated_mind-

I wonder how many of us could be so vulnerable so as to stand without any knowledge of and knowledge as their own being as identity. Maybe the great problem is none of us can simply be vulnerable. Beautifully and delicately and alertly aware as nothing ( ‘ naked ‘ ) and so be totally open to another ( as nothing ) and to the all.

“ It had rained heavily during the night and the day, and down the gullies the muddy stream poured into the sea, making it chocolate-brown. As youwalked on the beach the waves were enormous and they were breaking with magnificent curve and force. You walked against the wind, and suddenly you felt there was nothing between you and the sky, and this openness was heaven. To be so completely open, vulnerable to the hills, to the sea and to man is the very essence of meditation. To have no resistance, to have no barriers inwardly towards anything, to be really free, completely, from all the minor urges, compulsions and demands, with all their little conflicts and hypocrisies, is to walk in life with open arms. And that evening, walking there on that wet sand, with the seagulls around you, you felt the extraordinary sense of open freedom and the great beauty of love which was not in you or outside you but everywhere. We don't realize how important it is to be free of the nagging pleasures and their pains, so that the mind remains alone. It is only the mind that is wholly alone that is open. You felt all this suddenly, like a great wind that swept over the land and through you. There you were denuded of everything, empty and therefore utterly open. The beauty of it was not in the word or in the feeling, but seemed to be everywhere about you, inside you, over the waters and in the hills. Meditation is this.”

Meditations 1969

“There is nobody to answer questions, even though you may ask the right question. In the right question itself is the answer. If you ask of another and accept what they say, you have become a foolish person – then you live on faith and hope, and therefore you invite despair, anxiety and fear. But as you are walking, moving, acting, you discover for yourself the whole meaning of existence. That can be discovered only when there is the state of observing, listening, never resisting, never suppressing, never defending. Because when the mind is vulnerable, when the brain is no longer the animal – the animal being greed, envy, ambition, aggression, violence – when it is no longer that, it is capable of listening totally, and therefore discovering and seeing for itself. What you discover is not what you want to discover.”

Public Talk 10, Saanen, 31 July 1966

Maybe it all gets down to ( and even all the spiritual BS ) our inability ( unwillingness) to be this so ‘ vulnerable ‘. Happy to be corrected.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b_spfKqaVAQ&list=PL1n30s-LKus6YrCTizVVRNZIeex5WLk2Q&index=12&pp=iAQB&ra=m

“Just listen, watch all the activities of yourself: the way you talk, the way you eat, the way you walk. Don’t correct the walk, don’t correct the way you eat, just watch it, so that by the very watching, you become astonishingly sensitive. This requires great sensitivity and therefore great intelligence. Not conclusions, not experience, but intelligence. To be intelligent you need tremendous sensitivity. There can be sensitivity only when the body is also sensitive – how you observe, see, hear. Then, out of that minute observation, without any choice, without any evaluation or judgment, condemnation or comparison, just to observe – out of that observation, you will see that your body becomes extraordinarily alert, sensitive, and therefore the whole of your brain, the mind, the whole of your entity becomes sensitive.”

Public Talk 2, Saanen, 12 July 1966

The highest form of sensitivity is intelligence. Intelligence has nothing whatsoever to do with knowledge. You may not have read a single book and be extraordinarily intelligent, because you are aware of what is going on in the world, highly sensitive to all the movements of your thoughts and feelings.

Public Talk 2, New York City, 3 October 1968

Thought is matter. There is energy and there is matter. That is all life is: energy and matter. We think thought is not matter, but it is. Thought is matter, as an idea, as an ideology. Energybecomes matter, so matter and energy are interrelated; one cannot exist without the other. Matter cannot exist without energy and energycannot exist without matter; the two are completely interrelated. The more there is balance, harmony between energy and matter, the more the brain cells are active – not as an idea but actually active; much more.

 School Talk (Students) 3, Rajghat, 7 January 1967

When the observer is the observed, there is only the observed, not the observer. When there is division as the observer and the observed, there is conflict and the desire to control, suppress, conquer. That is a waste of energy. When there is only the observed, not the observer observing that which he is seeing, there is energy to go beyond the observed, beyond what is. So it is very important to find out how to observe. Don’t go to classes or some community to learn how to observe or how to become sensitive. For God’s sake be simple. It is very important to understand this for yourself, not from my explanation. See it for yourself. Then the conflict in yourself comes to an end, and you have no violence. The truth, the understanding, not intellectual but the fact that the observer is the observed, brings about a totally different freedom in which there is no conflict whatsoever.

ublic Talk 1 in San Francisco, California, 20 March 1975

 “ Thought shattering itself against its own nothingness is the explosion of meditation. “ ( K )

In intelligence, there is complete, total security. Intelligence comes when you have observed all those things which are unintelligent.

Talk 4 in New Delhi, 19 November 1972

The intelligence that does not accumulate and the intelligence that accumulates are two different things.

Group Discussion 6 in Gstaad, 20 August 1964

In being aware of that which is false, there comes intelligence. Intelligence is not yours or mine. It operates when any incident, propaganda, challenge or demand is put before us. Intelligenceis the perception of what is false and what is true.

Talk 2 in Santa Monica, California, 17 March 1974

The very attention you give to a problem is the energy that solves that problem. When you give your complete attention – with everything in you – there is no observer at all. There is only the state of attention which is total energy, which is the highest form of intelligence. (K)

What brings about total attention? Not any method nor any system; they bring about a result, promised by them. But total attention is not a result, any more than love is; it cannot be induced, it cannot be brought about by any action. Total attention is the negation of the results of inattention but this negation is not the act of knowing attention. What is false must be denied not because you already know what is true; if you knew what is true the false would not exist. The true is not the opposite of the false; love is not the opposite of hate. Because you know hate, you do not know love. Denial of the false, denial of the things of non-attention is not the outcome of the desire to achieve total attention. Seeing the false as the false and the true as the true and the true in the false is not the result of comparison. To see the false as the false is attention. The false as the false cannot be seen when there is opinion, judgment, evaluation, attachment and so on, which are the result of non-attention. Seeing the whole fabric of non-attention is total attention. An attentive mind is an empty mind.” ( K’s Notebook ) 

This meditation cannot be learned from another. You must begin without knowing anything about it and move from innocence to innocence. The soil in which the meditative mind can begin is the soil of everyday life. The strife, the pain and the fleeting joy. It must begin there and bring order and from there move endlessly. But if you are concerned with only making order then that very order will bring about its own limitation and the mind will be its prisoner. In all this movement you must somehow begin from the other end/the other shore and not always be concerned with this shore or how to cross the River. You must take the plunge into the water not knowing how to swim and the beauty of meditation is that you never know where you are, where you are going, what the end is.’

Meditation comes only to a life that is totally harmonious. That meditation means a mind that is completely still. Stillness is not cultivated; it cannot be manufactured by thought. It comes naturally, sweetly, without any effort, if you have understood clearly how to observe without the interference of an image, conclusion or opinion. Then the mind becomes extraordinarily still. Now the mind can go much further – it is like opening a door to something totally unknown. But to come to that door, you must understand yourself completely, and in the very understanding of yourself comes this harmony. And when you come to the door, what lies beyond can never be put into words. What is nameable and can be put into words is not the real. What is described is not the describable. So, the mind that can live totally, which means with love, with compassion, the mind that doesn’t divide death, love and living, only to such a mind can there be this tremendous quiet, harmony, beauty and love.

Public Talk, Rome, 29 October 1972

So  for me, there is no learning; there is only seeing. Seeing is not accumulative; it is not a process of gathering-in or of denying. Seeing `what is is destructive', and in destruction there is peace, not violence. Violence, revolution, or change exists in the process of accumulating, maintaining the centre. But when one sees the whole of that process totally, completely, with all one's being, then the fact, that which is, is completely destructive; and what is destruction is creation.

Public Talk 4 Saanen, Switzerland - 01 August 1961

The word is not the thing.

Jiddu Krishnamurti

"The craving to become causes fears; to be, to achieve, and so to depend engenders fear. The state of the non-fear is not negation, it is not the opposite of fear nor is it courage. In understanding the cause of fear, there is its cessation, not the becoming courageous, for in all becoming there is the seed of fear. Dependence on things, on people, or on ideas breeds fear; dependence arises from ignorance, from the lack of self- knowledge, from inward poverty; fear causes uncertainty of mind-heart, preventing communication and understanding. Through self-awareness we begin to discover and so comprehend the cause of fear, not only the superficial but the deep casual and accumulative fears. Fear is both inborn and acquired; it is related to the past, and to free thought-feeling from it, the past must be comprehended through the present. The past is ever wanting to give birth to the present which becomes the identifying memory of the “me” and the “mine,” the “I.” The self is the root of all fear.'

Book of Life march 31

...........The observer is always casting its shadow on the thing it observes. So one must understand the structure and the nature of the observer, not how to bring about a union between the two. One must understand the movement of the observer and in that understanding perhaps the observer comes to an end. 

We must examine what the observer is: it is the past with all its memories, conscious and unconscious, its racial inheritance, its accumulated experience which is called knowledge, its reactions. The observer is really the conditioned entity. He is the one who asserts that he is, and I am. In protecting himself, he resists, dominates, seeking comfort and security. The observer then sets himself apart as something different from that which he observes, inwardly or outwardly. This brings about a duality and from this duality there is conflict, which is the wastage of energy. To be aware of the observer, his movement, his self-centred activity, his assertions, his prejudices, one must be aware of all these unconscious movements which build the separatist feeling that he is different. It must be observed without any form of evaluation, without like and dislike; just observe it in daily life, in its relationships. When this observation is clear, isn’t there then a freedom from the observer?...........

.......Learning is its own action. What generally happens is that having learnt – we act upon what we have learnt. So there is division between the past and action, and hence there is a conflict between what should be and what is, or what has been and what is. We are saying that there can be action in the very movement of learning: that is, learning is doing; it is not a question of having learnt and then acting. This is very important to understand because having learnt, and acting from that accumulation, is the very nature of the “me”, the “I”, the ego or whatever name one likes to give it. The “I” is the very essence of the past and the past impinges on the present and so on into the future. In this there is constant division. Where there is learning there is a constant movement; there is no accumulation which can become the “I”.

........Yes, that is what we mean. Meditation is not a state; it is a movement, as action is a movement. And as we said just now, when we separate action from learning, then the observer comes between the learning and the action; then he becomes important; then he uses action and learning for ulterior motives. When this is very clearly understood as one harmonious movement of acting, of learning, of meditation, there is no wastage of energy and this is the beauty of meditation. There is only one movement. Learning is far more important than meditation or action. To learn there must be complete freedom, not only consciously but deeply, inwardly – a total freedom. And in freedom there is this movement of learning, acting, meditating as a harmonious whole. The word whole not only means health but holy. So learning is holy, acting is holy, meditation is holy. This is really a sacred thing and the beauty is in itself and not beyond it.

https://kfoundation.org/krishnamurti-opinion-and-judgement-distort-observation-from-the-urgency-of-change/

Just sharing a couple of quotes. Don't have photoshop nor the brains to use it so no pictures of clouds, the sky, mountains or an old man looking nobly into space who was the vehicles for these words.

Why do we ( or can we ) become so enamoured with our insight ? Is it a self reinforcement not seen for what it is ….. subtly shouting at ourselves while shouting at others…  that self we are discussing so insightfully as being nothing, still as our fear of nothing, finding warm ( identity) in the something of our precious insight and the sharing ( pontificating ) of it to others. 

*The watcher shattering itself against its  own watching is the explosion of  meditation in which there is no meditator no narcissist no self love as fear no accumulation, cause the watcher’s ( the accumulator ) watching ( not separate) is the watched  🤔 …. that source of self as thought ….. and which is actually an ending ?

*a  variantion of K quote 
 “ Thought shattering itself against its own nothingness is the explosion of meditation. “ ( K ) 

… just a disjointed OP and question ?

We have any number of people ( including me) suggesting what is the correct way of looking at, what is the correct of understanding K or in fact spirituality, awareness, the soul,  God, a way of out the mess we are .. etc,  be it in YouTube here in Reddit or in whichever social media platform is your ‘ poison ‘ basically. 

Suggest there is only actually one ‘ correct ‘ and there will only ever be one correct and that is the ‘ correct’ which is the true insight which is order and which is the meditation ( as an action) ‘ one ‘ actually is as an action, and it is the ‘ correct’ only the individual himself can see and be as that ( intelligent) action. 

  ‘ Correct ‘ doesn’t belong to anyone because it’s only something the individual is to come upon as true insight as intelligence ( which is meditation as action) and which is to bring true order and true order doesn’t belong to anyone because the that order ( which IS when self is not ) is itself !  It is ‘ it’s’ sacred self and while one can live as and of that truth; it ain’t yours because the ‘ you ‘ has ended ( there is no you for it to be anyone’s and it is itself. 

‘ Correct ‘ cannot be given to another. One can talk about awareness till the cows come home but if that awareness is not also the perception ( the intelligence that is the total energy ( no waste) ) which IS the action which IS the perceiving of the unfolding moment then one may as well just be aware of the boil on your ar3e.

Insight, intelligence, order cannot be made correct as a method, or as a standard, or as a description because that makes it real and partial and nominal and separative. 

Someone’s authoritative words ( even if correct and including K ) will never be that living action of ‘ correct ‘ as true insight as intelligence as true order as the Meditation ( as an action) which it is. 

Happy to be corrected or told I’m indeed making a correct about correct !  🤷‍♂️

Truth is a pathless land ! 

https://kfoundation.org/dissolution-speech/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCdF4nyq\_CE&pp=ygUoSXMgdGhlcmUgYW4gYWN0aW9uIG5vdCBiYXNlZCBvbiB0aG91Z2h0IA%3D%3D&ra=m

A quite animated K ‘ firing up ‘ in this discussion. To actually find out obviously can’t involve thought can it ? 

We have made reality real ( the word … the thing which something is to us ) and ‘ derealing ‘ ( to end the something that something.. a thing .. means ( attachment) to us ) can be a bugger of a task.

Can take fair bit of energy … but if we stop wasting energy then that energy is there.

Maybe takes a sensitively … an actute awareness.. of the what is ( the structure and nature) of the ‘ word ‘ … but sensitivity ‘ breeds ‘ sensitivity so learning ( insight ) is hopefully to ever more be insightful.. 🤔 ( happy to be corrected on that ).

“Only in discovery can there be joy - the discovery from moment to moment of the ways of the self. The self, at whatever level it is placed, is still of the mind. Whatever the mind can think about is of the mind. The mind cannot think about something which is not of itself; it cannot think of the unknown. The self at any level is the known; and though there may be layers of the self of which the superficial mind is not aware, they are revealed in the action of relationship; and when relationship is not confined within a pattern, it gives an opportunity for self-revelation. Relationship is the action of the self, and to understand this action there must be awareness without choice; for to choose is to emphasize one interest against another. This awareness is the experiencing of the action of the self, and in this experiencing there is neither the experiencer nor the experienced. Thus the mind is emptied of its accumulations; there is no longer the "me," the gatherer. The accumulations, the stored-up memories are the "me; the "me" is not an entity apart from the accumulations. The "me" separates itself from its characteristics as the observer, the watcher, the controller, in order to safe- guard itself, to give itself continuity amidst impermanency. The experiencing of the integral, unitary process frees the mind from its dualism. Thus the total process of the mind, the open as well as the hidden, is experienced and understood - not piece by piece, activity by activity, but in its entirety. Then dreams and everyday activities are ever an emptying process. The mind must be utterly empty to receive; but the craving to be empty in order to receive is a deep-seated impediment, and this also must be understood completely, not at any particular level. The craving to experience must wholly cease, which happens only when the experiencer is not nourishing himself on experiences and their memories.
The purgation of the mind must take place not only on its upper levels, but also in its hidden depths; and this can happen only when the naming or terming process comes to an end. Naming only strengthens and gives continuity to the experiencer, to the desire for permanency, to the characteristic of particularizing memory. There must be silent awareness of naming, and so the understanding of it. We name not only to communicate, but also to give continuity and substance to an experience, to revive it and to repeat its sensations. This naming process must cease, not only on the superficial levels of the mind, but throughout its entire structure. This is an arduous task, not to be easily understood or lightly experienced; for our whole consciousness is a process of naming or terming experience, and then storing or recording it. It is this process that gives nourishment and strength to the illusory entity, the experiencer as distinct and separate from the experience. Without thoughts there is no thinker. Thoughts create the thinker, who isolates himself to give himself permanency; for thoughts are always impermanent.
There is freedom when the entire being, the superficial as well as the hidden, is purged of the past. Will is desire; and if there is any action of the will, any effort to be free, to denude oneself, then there can never be freedom, the total purgation of the whole being. When all the many layers of consciousness are quiet, utterly still, only then is there the immeasurable, the bliss that is not of time, the renewal of creation.”

https://jkrishnamurti.org/content/series-i-chapter-29-meditation/Arduous%20

Just sharing a talk which has a lot in it ( they all do I guess ). Not much to say about it. I guess there is hearing about meditation which you have probably heard a hundred times and there is that which the word is about. Let the old fellow do the talking ( just trying to get the 100 letters up 😂).

Also a link to the written.

https://jkrishnamurti.org/content/meditation-flowering-has-no-motive/Negation%20flower

Featuring Graham Bonnet’s just insane vocal ability.

….. coz that’s what it sounds like …. or maybe an attempt at Krishnamurti in a paragraph.

Let one’s own understanding ( insight as an action ) be your light. Not understanding according to anyone else and that includes K. And for that understanding be Truth. That Truth can’t be if one is living ( as an action ) according to separate ideas ( as being true ( belief ) ) as a concept of what is and what you should be ( as learnt ideas in growing up in your life or historic ideas garnered from and as human consciousness ( as an action of thought ) ) and so to see ( that action ) the truth of that.  And in this there is, what seems to be, the incongruity of the fact that there is only one Truth which is maybe exemplified as this ‘ dynamic ‘ ‘ action ‘ ? .. or is it an energy of type ? … or both ? of ‘ *being* ‘ as Love and intelligence. 

“There is a way of learning, which is insight. When one has insight, it is not remembered. Each new insight is something fresh. Action then is not repetitive but constantly creative.”

Public Talk 4 in Madras (Chennai), 1 January 1978

Happy to be corrected.