u/blackswan-whiteswan

heavy spoilers and I would love to know what others think

WHAT I LIKED-

— the voice work is impeccable. everyone gives it their all shout Dan Steven’s and Jesse Tyler Ferguson make a delightful Andre and Firmin. Sierra Boggess is CHEWING UP the audio scenery As Carlotta. And of course the trio. Jordan Fisher is a pretty confident bordering on arrogant Raoul which works but he has the sweetness you feel tje connection with Christine

Beatrice Penny Touree is a MARVELLOUS Christine you can see and hear the change on her character. we get a real sense of her character and her inner life and and my goodness Jordan Donica ! The way he is able to balance all the facets of the Phantom the command , sensuality rage and the extreme fragile vulnerability is remarkable. He should do more audiobooks/radio plays he has the voice for it.

— the way they use the music whether sung or the orchestral version under dialogue really creates a cinematic feel of the whole thing

— they give Carlotta a moment with Christine. in the cafe before Don Juan when she talks about getting older in the industry was a great scene

— the Rosa Josephine and Cupid and Pysche allegory for Erik and Christine and seeing their music lessons before the events of the musical. And the connection between them.

— she actively chooses and wants to be with Erik at tne s end she doesn’t do it to free Raoul. Because she doesn’t know what he’s going to do. He’s unpredictable. She thinks through that choice. It’s an active choice which then makes her surprise to Erik freeing Raoul and letting tg go feelmore earnest. Sometimes with some performances it feels like Christine is anticipating that Erik will free them and using the kiss as a tactic. .

— meeting Raoul‘s mother and the conflict. One thing I’ve always questioned about the musical is Raoul is in aristocrat surely his parents aren’t going be completely happy with him marrying a performer even if it is one he’s known from childhood. That conflict is interesting o wish we’d had more of it.

— the chapters that take place pre musical Christine’s life her relationship with the dancers, Carlotta’s tantrums to everyone help us really take time to bring us intp the world

— Raoul’s expansion getting to know him and seeing him and Christine’s relationship expanded out. getting to know him more was lovely.

WHAT I‘M NOT SURE ON

— once the story aligns with the musical the pace and tone shifts at like 100 miles an hour. Even bits that are obviously given time to be fleshed out it feels like a bit more of dash to get to the next iconic song or scene. Aside from the chapters that cover interval between act one and act two where Christne is with Raoul by the sea. Those chapters which ironically drag a tiny bit because aside from the mother and that situation seems to get resolved a little too clearly, there’s not really a lot of conflict

— the dream sequences. I get why they’re there in theory. And I completely get Christine being both attracted to and scared of Erik, but they go on for too long. Especially the second one that she has about the Don Juan one triumphant rehearsals.

— they put Christine in moments and give her moments that she is not present for in the show. She’s the one who goes to Madame Giry and gets backstory. She is on stage when the guard initially tried to shoot the Phantom and he’s throwing his voice around before the Don Juan triumphant show. I think there’s something about actually having her react to things first or secondhand that is also important.

— it’s clear that Raoul sees the connection between Erik and Christine because she mentions the tension that arises between them post masquerade but it never really gets addressed or discussed. Another changes they make it that Erik seriously injured Raoul in the graveyard and he’s in hospital he seems to heal pretty quickly and this is not really discussed as much length or in the conversation that they need to have between them about the tension

— and probably the biggest one: there are Easter eggs and there is straight up setting up and there is a DIFFERENCE. this book doesn’t reference IT IS a Love Never Dies prequel as much as it is a retelling of the Phantom of the opera., There are so many moments and references to Love Never Dies that it becpmes a part of the story. Which colours all the interactions. We see Raoul and Christine being lovely and sweet, but because that lingering it’s sours the sweetness of their love because we can tell what Raoul will become.

Probably the one I maybe took the biggest issue with is the way that Meg’s character changes. Why on earth would she want lessons from the Phanrom it doesn’t align with the way she is presented in this particular book before the ? And the tension between her and Christine even though they kind of make up and all that stuff it’s never really addressed they don’t really have their moment. It never feels truly resolved and if you don’t know the story of life never dies it feels like a bit of a weird takes on plot.

And then, of course, the very ending the epilogue if they had just done this, I would’ve been fine with that but it literally ends with Beneath the Moonless Sky or at least the implication of it. And I don’t know how I feel about that. I personally kind of don’t view love never dies as Cannon. But also it kind of feels like because of that certain plot points get brought in just to set up I’ve never dies. And I don’t think that it helps the story with flowing consistency.

But overall, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I definitely will. revisits the audiobook again.

what do you guys think of it?

Does anyone have any information as to if anything is happening for the actual 40th anniversary day of Phantom of the opera that day is still blocked off on every single ticket website so presumably they are doing something. Even if the majority of the audience is for former cast members and family of the creatives involved, I have to assume they want some of the actual audience in there right?

Any news any ideas? Has the show/Andrew Lloyd Webber/anyone else indicated anything?

I know they probably filmed a lot more because there wasn’t as much drama, but it was so funny seeing what everyone was like at Magic Mike so many great reactions I’m sure we’re going to become gics and Memes. And then the after morning after where they were tired/hubgover. Hilarious.

really curious to hear people’s thoughts on this.

obviously she’s extremely talented , I loved her solo album but it’s not a case of like say Beyonce in Destinys Chils or Nicole Scherzinger in Pussycat Dolls where Mix was the clear focal point of her group. Little mix were very egalitarian so it wouls be harder to predict who’s music and work would land more successful. what did she do differently that the others havent yet that has resonated with people?

I’ve heard some good things and I finally got a chance to see it yesterday and I had such a good time with it! This is what Great Shakespeare does! it connects with the people. I thought the way they use the interactive elements especially with the Rude Mechanicals, the play within the play elements was really string and they really got the audience engaged.

I also appreciated how they approached the lovers. I think the choice to have a non binary Lysander makes the Reason for Egeus disdain have a clearer rpoint. Cause I have always found it odd in the text how Lysander is stated to be of equal social status as Demetrius but Egeus doesn’t like him for random reasons? having Hermia be in queer relationship gives it more weight. And makes Lysander more tender and sweet.

Romaya Weaver as Helena is one of the best I’ve ever seen. I think the lovers especially Helena and Hermia have an uphill battle compared to the spectacle of the Fairies and Rude Mechanicals and she managed to make Helena a stand out of the whole show. giving her lines a lot more of a fun, vibrant edge not just making her a sad sack following Demetrius around. I also found Demetrius far more gentle than he is often portrayed making their reconciliation feel more earned and sweet.

Weirdly I found Oberon a little underwhelming in this? I wasn’t clear on this productions interpretation of him. Yes, I think the fairies are pansexual free spirits, but I wasn’t sure is Oberon even attracted to Titania, is he gay? Because they do that thing in the tradition in theatre of having the actors cast as Oberon and Titania also playing Theseus and Hippolyta. In this choose to have Hippolyta be pregnant. Is thrn Titania’s devotion to the changeling boy a d Oberon’s jealousy actually Thesus‘ subconscious fear of being replaced with the baby? Is it a lavender marriage? Espeically given they switch some of the lines so it seems like Hipplotta conquered Theseus. They seem to touch on that, but it’s never really explored fully?

i’ve always found the Pyramis and Thisbe a play a bit of a slog but they managed to use the audience interaction so well to make that fun. Also so weirdly this was the rare production were as good as the actor playing Bottom was I felt like the entire rude mechanicals ensemble were used really well. So it didn’t feel as much as a star veichle.

Michael Grady Hall, as Puck was brilliant. It’s funny this is the character that I think has the widest interpretation and I kind of like that this Puck is a little bit more laid back. There was all there was a bit of a weird melancholy in the “if we shadows have offended speech” which I thought was interesting. Also, I love the running gag of him falling in love with an audience member.

anyone else seen this production? What did you think?

Without looking at the comments I can guess some people will be turned off by her but for me personally I really respect a fellow woman who knows what she wants. Is very clear about her intentions and who has high standards. she communicates.

But also she’s not unkind, she’s sweet friend. Even though they haven’t explicitly said it on the show yet I think it’s very clear that she grew up with money (based on that her VERY RP accent maybe even old money ) but I think it hasn’t left her cold or unkind.

Also, if she does end up with AJay I think that she would be very receptive and respectful to his culture.

what do you guys think of her?

What would you do? Would you do a TV show or film? Would it follow or focus on different characters?

at the ultimate Disney Princess celebration? they had Jodi Benson and Halle Bailey and Au’illi Cravello and the new live action Moana. it seems a little odd?

Also I get they may not have the rights to the Rogers and Hammerstien Cinderela songs but why not get Brandy to sing A Dream Is Your Wish Makes

I’m talking about those who went into acting yes including musical theatre because you’re acting a character not singing as yourself , TV presenting, reality tv etc?

Given it’s popularity, I could see a London transfer happening. The good thing is that you could obviously transfer some of the US couples to London but you could also bring in Phantoms from both the West End and Europe so who would you want to see?

let’s presume in a movie.

Having recently rewatched Tick Tick Boom the way he acts through song is fantastic.

what would you cast him in? Personally I’d like to see him take on a musical comedy.

as the title said which play would you like to see remade (or perhaps adapted for the big scteen for the first time) and who would you cast today.

I’m watching the pro shot they did of the Barbican production on bbc Iplayer starring Stephanie J Block and Adrian Dunbar. I don’t know if it’s just me but I’m struggling with it cause I’m finding the acting in the cast really weak.

I feel like Stephanie J Block and Adrian Dunbar, have very little chemistry. The punch lines and the comedic beats are really not landing. And honestly I think it’s Adrian Dunbar.

Because Stephanie J Block is an INCREDIBLE actress and that’s very clear here she is acting the songs and making character choices in the dialogue. Her experience is clear. and oh her own or in other scenes she SHINES. But it feels like Adrian Dunbar is just singing the songs and going through the motion. It doesn’t feel like an equal match of sparring partners which is central to the show. She is EATING him alive. Even in his own songs it doesn’t work. You can feel the ensemble really trying to pull him to their energy. He’s really miscast.

And it really really hurts me to say this as a woman of colour about another Georgina Onuorah as Lois is not fantastic. Again the vocals are strong but there’s little chemistry with Charlie Stemp. It doesn’t look like she’s listening or reacting you can see shots of her just standing looking at what’s happening blankly.

and the ensemble is hit and miss.

And I’m someone who’s not particularly precious about Kiss Me Kate it’s not one of my favourite shows or anything but the lack of energy and lack of chemistry it’s so glaringly obvious, I’m shocked it wasn’t spoken of more.

Especially having recently seen High Society, another Cole Porter show at the Barbican recently and the difference is night and day. All the cast is are on it, all the punchlines land the chemistry is there with everyone. Helen George has BRILLIANT chemistry with Julian Ovenden they truly shine as the two leads.

does anyone else who’s watched the pro shot or saw it live agree?

and i’m saying that someone who likes the movie and gets why it’s become a pop culture classic. I can see why LMM like it enough to want to turn into a Musical. There’s a lot that it does really well.

-That opening sequence is Fantastic. from the comic book prologue, It establishes the world we’re in, the different gangs are so visually striking it establishes the different members of the Warriors and with the music adding to this creeping sense of tension. it almost feels like a video game. Which is why I get why it got turned into one later.

-the actor playing Cyrus and his speech is incredible. It reminded me of “Friends romans countryman speech” from Julius Cesear a which makes his death feel even more tragic and grand

-DJ Lin Penn she manages to be both so charismatic and still be really sinister when she needs to be. Outside of the Warriors this is the castinrg that the show really needs to nail because she is such a constant presence throughout the film and she’s such a recognisable part of it. Shenseea did a great job on the album but no way are you getting such a well known artist specially in dancehall scene back for 8 shows a week

-The scene with Swan and Mercy on the train where you see the rich kids looking at them and you realise that there is this whole other world and you realise how young everyone is and how despite how cool and wild they’ve made out to be the fact that they’ve had to choose to be in a gang to survive is really sad

The issues that I think the Musical fixes are

- Really aside from Swan and Ajax the other members of the Warriors kind of blending into each other a personality wise. Rembrandt and Fox are the cute quiet ones Cochise is strong and silent so is the other one the shiw makes them all feel fully realised.

- despite their visual appearance the gangs all sort of blend into each other personality wise because they all have the same goal aside from the Riffs who as largest gang feel more like a military unit. And rne Lizzie’s as the only other female representation in the movie. Giving them all a different musical style really helps to distinguish them and make them feel different. Also having the Hurricanes actually be the only ones to believe them and willingly let the girls go is a nice touch. speaking to a lot of crossover and solidarity women especially as the group are predominately POC and LGBTQIA community share.

- Ajax is truly horrid in the movie. Understandably these are still gang members at the end of the day but he’s so repugnant personality wise and an attempted rapist. Ajax in the musical still hss all the personality but they feel more tragic. Someone’s whos downfall is that they are so jaded and blinded by anger at the world and rage and pain theg can’t get past it.

- Fox’s death actually has impact and meaning. It happens way earlier in the movie in the musical irs the climax and you get sit in the devastating impact of that till the end

- They let Cleon live. He’s so charismatic in rne movie and even in the warriors book he leaves and joins up with them. Plus we don’t see Cleon die in the movie if if feels unresolved. The choice to have her be the one to see Luther shoot Cyrus so she can identify him is stronger storytelling cause it feels way too coincidental how it gets resolved in the movie

- the impact of Cyrus death becomes bit if a shorthand plot device in the movie but in the musical they explore WHY it’s such a big deal and how Cyrus wanted peace and the greater Idea of is peace truly attainable “what you do when they kill every thing you believe in”

- Masai is am almost completely different character. In the movie again he moves more like a movie general he barely emotes. in the musical again the whole scene where he’s torturing? Cleon they’ve definitely been violent with her, and they go back and forth. And ylh see him mourning the loss of Cyrus

- and the most obviously the Gender swap of the Warriors makes a world of difference because whole the stakes feels higher because while they are tough and are they are viewed as a gang and get violent the Show doesn’t downplay their feminioty. They try to use it themselves with the Orphhans and it works till Mercy shows up. So there’s not getting around the subtext both we as an audience we naturally project and also the show implies it isn’t just the threat is theyll be killed there is also the danger of them being sexually assaulted by the gangs.

Even Mercy wanting to join them it’s not just cause she’s attracted to Swan but also cause she’s attracted to what they represent and the safety they can offer that she can’t get with Orphans/any male figure. It’s also an interesting reclamation that for a film that was very homophobic but also that was a reflection of the time period and the world in which the gangs lived that the love story is now a queer one.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk haha but seriously it’s an interesting conversation that stage adaptation I think will have an even bigger impact that the film for those reasons.

Not a criticism, but a query when and why did the Phantom of the opera show generally begin to cast as The Phantom as significantly younger than they were like 10+ years ago? This doesn’t feel random because it’s happened at various productions West End Broadway, international tours etc but a deliberate choice by the casting team. You do get the occasional mid 40s+ Phantom nowadays but that tends to be someone who is a legacy Phantom like Ramin ( who casting wise could pass for his 30s) or Hugh in Masquerade . I’m seeing a lot more Phantoms who are in their 30s and even late 20s. To put it in context, It’s kind of reached it’s pinnacle with the recent Sydney Harbour production with of a Phantom who is 22 and now younger than his Christine.

I don’t mind as I personally think the Phantom being closer to Christine‘s age works better in my opinion but I do think there has been a noticeably significant shift I’m just wondering, when did this start? And why was the decision made.

And if anyone disagrees feel free to comment to, I’ll be interested to hear other peoples opinions on this

As the title says we all know that when something is successful there, I’m not attempts to replicate it. If the Odyssey does well, what Greek mythology do you reckon will be adapted for the big screen?

And which ones would you like to see?

As the title said what are some of your favourite R&B summer songs. They don’t necessarily have to be about summer itself but whenever you think of summer these songs put you in a particular frame of mind.

I feel like this is probably an obvious discussion point I I feel like Troy was always going to be destroyed no matter what .

If he had chosen Athena, yes be would have had victories in battle but he’d have made an enemy of Aphrodite and Hera which means that the city itself would probably alway be in a state of struggle Paris died, the city would probably fall. Aphrodite would probably make his wife either died young/in childbirth kr even do a reverse Helen of Troy where Paris’ wife was unfaithful or fell in love, maybe even with Melananus or someone else and so it would just be the cause of war, but the Trojans would be the attackers.

If he had chosen Hera, he’sld made an enemy of Athena and Aphrodite so he would’ve become powerful, but Athena would likely guide incredible military leaders like Odysseus and turn them against Troy and give them the wisdom to destroy it. And I think Aphrodite probably would’ve essentially done an honey trap and had a princess of one of the neighbouring kingdoms seducing Paris and then getting the army to come in through the information that she was learning. Sort of like Delilah in the Bible

Either way, Troy was always going to fall. The minute that the baby Paris‘ life was spared Troy’s fate was sealed.

This is not in the text at all, but it’s my own personal opinion I think that it’s all a grand conspiracy. I think Zeus was worried that Troy would become too powerful and as a result their dependence on the gods would wane. so he nipped it in the bud

do other people agree or disagree? Would it have been a different outcome if Paris chose differently,

I genuinely go back-and-forth as both an R&B and massive Disney fan.

what about you guys?