u/mynameryn

Here is the temporary version of the new BP calculator I made for this balance patch. It doesn’t cover everything, only most of the important changes to help with single target breakpoint calculation. See the Read me part to see what changes I didn’t include (only very little). I will try to provide the full version once source code is unbundled and/or Verno doesn't update his original post. If you haven’t tried the breakpoint calculator before, I highly recommend try it out. It is one of the best tool the community had. It might seem to be intimidating at first, but I promise it’s easier than it looked like and is extremely useful for build crafting or just has a better understanding of the weapons. Here are two video tutorials that made by other community members to help you get started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svMBn_EBJkk

https://youtu.be/yExHuOkDJ-A?si=QwK0zGUWrkvoy9H1

If you want to know other basic numbers like cleave/dodge changes, go use the Armoury mod. It uses numbers directly from the game, so is always updated. Though it won’t have new attacks like the War Pick H3, which I included in the melee post.

Below are my personal notes and thoughts on weapons that I think received enough interesting changes/I want to talk about, and some builds to go with. They aren’t perfectly optimal, but does cover all the basic with important breakpoints mentioned if it has any. All builds are based on Cata.

Human 1h sword

Mobility buff is decent. Heavy monster damage buff is kinda whatever since you still want to chain light against monster even after the buff. The L3 buff is pretty noticeable for single target damage boost if you can land HS/playing high crit chance boost. The PA -> L3 new combo is good for burst down low HP elite, but not DPS efficient in a long, drawn out fight. Overall just some nice buff without changing weapon identity/play loop too much. I recommend trying out these new changes on a build that uses 1h sword as a primary weapon, not secondary, since its functionality as a secondary weapon doesn’t change much with this path.

Merc: Repeater 1SBS assassin, 2SBS gas/blight/leech, 3SBS hook

Pyro: Bolt full charge 1SBS all specials except banner

UC: Bolt full charge 1SBS all specials except banner

Elf 1h sword

Beside some welcoming number buff, the most important change is giving H2 a different profile. Losing H2 as a single target attack doesn’t really hurt its single target DPS, since you still have the H1 -> L3 combo. The new H2 instead provide a very good high CC attack. Although it can’t cleave through armour, it has same stagger cleave as two-handed hammer heavy attack, and able to stagger normal elites when they are doing lighter attacks. Just like Sword & Dagger, Elf 1h sword is a well-rounded weapon, so technically fits in any kind of build for melee Elf. Here I paired them with the good ole longbow on HM/SOTT.

HM: Longbow 1 SBS assassin, 2 SBS all specials, 1 SHS all specials/SV

SOTT: BP is the same as HM build.

Elf 2h sword

So, first thing first, in case you’ve never used/tried the elf 2h sword H2 attack, you initiate it by input a Light Attack command (click your mouse, not hold) after doing an H1 attack, similar to how you initiate Elf glaive H2(the overhead). If you just chain heavy attack, you're going to spam H1 instead. The new buffed H2 gives you a very powerful combo against mixed horde. If there are things like SV/Mauler mixed in the horde, you can now just spam the H1 -> H2 combo. Aim the H1 on the tougher units, and use H2 to cleave through them all. Build wise, this weapon is again mostly used on HM and SOTT. HM has a lot of speed buff to make this weapon feels better, and SOTT bleed apply talent is very good with the newly buffed high cleave attack.

HM: Longbow 1 SBS assassin, 2 SBS all specials, 1 SHS all specials/SV

SOTT: BP is the same as HM build.

1h Axe

Some well deserved changes, and shakes up the old boring chain light attack spam too. The cleave buff is the most significant one. Though by no means it becomes a horde clear weapon after this patch, cleaving at least 2 horde units combined with the half stamina push make fighting horde much more manageable. I especially like the buff on l3, previously it’s a painfully slow attack to do, and you would want to block/qq cancel out of it if possible. But now, it received the biggest cleave buff among all attacks, and can actually cleave marauder/gor on cataclysm without any other cleave buff, very useful. Combo wise, you would want to spam light on horde and most elites, and spam heavy on armoured target. WHC can even get consistent 1SHS SV with heavy, which is really cool IMO. The buffed PA(push attack) into lights combo is not higher DPS unless you can consistently land HS, though even if you don’t, it is still very useful to finish off elites or kill 1 or 2 higher HP trash mob(marauder/gor). Build wise, it should be very useable on all available careers now with certain builds, but I still recommend start trying it out on melee focus careers because they usually have talents that help you get the hang of the weapon at first. I didn’t include slayer because how you build and play 1h axe slayer still mostly stay the same. For range careers, try it on builds with good horde clear range weapon(e.g shotguns on RV and BH). Keep in mind even after the cleave buff, 1h axe and its relatives are still very much single target focus weapons.

IB: 1h axe:1SHS low HP trash and 2SHS high HP trash, heavy 2SHS or 3SBS SV. Handgun 1 SBS all specials except wargor.

WHC: 1h axe 1SHS low HP trash and 2SHS high HP trash, heavy 1SHS SV with Tag. BoP 1 SBS assassin with Tag, 2SBS rest of specials with Tag except wargor.

Zealot: All BPs are with 6 passive stacks. 1h axe 1SBS slave rat/fanatic, 1SHS clan rat, 2SHS high HP trash, heavy 2SHS or 3SBS SV. BoP 1 SBS assassin, 2SBS rest of specials except wargor.

Axe & Shield

The cleave buff is welcome, but more importantly IMO is the l3/h3 damage boost and the movement slowdown reduce. It now has a more noticeable advantage in terms of single target DPS compared to Hammer & Shield, and actually has less slowdown when attacking than the other, though the Hammer & Shield PA -> Light combo is still faster. Overall just feels so much better to play. Build wise, honestly just replace any 1h axe or Hammer & Shield builds and try it out see if you like it.

Elf axe

Just like the dwarf/salt axe, elf axe now has multiple useful combos. PA -> l1 -> l2 for horde, chain light for most single target situations, and chain heavy for super armour. Kinda similar to the other 1h axe, but IMO has a bigger impact, since elf axe used to be directly competing with Dual Daggers, but after the combo change/cleave buff, I think it now sits somewhere between Dual Daggers and Sword Daggers. Build wise, beside the classic HM/SOTT, elf axe also goes pretty well with WS builds with a horde clear focus weapon. Clear high density horde with your range, and deal with enemies that go too close/single target with your axe. Here I used the newly buffed Swift Bow, you can read more about it in the range weapon post.

WS: Swiftbow need to land constant shot to stack bleed/reach breakpoints; 1 SBS slaverat/fanatic with quick arrow, 3 SBS Gas/Leech/Storm with quick arrow, 3 SBS firerat/ratling/hook rat with charge arrow

HM: Longbow 1 SBS assassin, 2 SBS all specials, 1 SHS all specials/SV

SOTT: BP is the same as HM build.

War Pick

War Pick received a lot of changes, and it wasn’t a very popular/common weapon before, so I think it deserves some long discussion here.

Before this balance patch, War Pick is basically a worse Cog Hammer with a unique 2-step charging heavy attack. Both weapons use sweeping light attacks to clear horde, and both use strike down heavy attack to kill single target. However, cog hammer light is just literally better than War Pick, dealing same damage/stagger while being much faster. And for heavy attack, while War Pick can theoretically deal more damage if you fully charge the heavy, it is just way too slow to pull it off in most situations, and doesn’t provide very meaningful breakpoints advantage on most builds.

After the buff, the War Pick still kept all the old identities, and gained a new one. It is still overall a very slow weapon with strong heavy hitting single target attacks, but a lot more manageable now. On top of that, it has become the best anti shield melee for Bardin, and one of the best anti shield melee in the game.

Now here comes the long discussion on how and when to use each attacks:

The light attacks are still just mostly horde clear/crowd control tool, even after the armour damage buff. The attack speed did not receive direct change, but buff on the crit chance helps a lot by procing Swift Slaying faster, and crit attacks can also stagger units easier or break wood shield. Combine with the move speed curve change, they perform much better now during horde.

The push attack has always been a single target focus attack that deals decent damage, very useful to finish off elite if they survived a full charged heavy attack. But its attack angle and sweeping animation very often mislead ppl into using it as a crowd control tool like other sweeping push follow-up attacks. Even after the cleave buff, it should still mostly be used as single target attack to finish off elites, as its cleave is still very low. If you want crowd control combo, just do regular light attacks after push.

The uncharged h1/h2 used to be basically pointless, since PA pretty much does the same thing but faster. After the buff, it is a bit better, but still a bit undesirable under most situations since it is now easier to full charge your heavy attack.

The full charged heavy has always been your bread and butter against single target, and now it’s much easier to use. The buffed damage makes the most important BP - 1SBS SV on Cata - much easier to obtain on none-Slayer Bardin, and the uninterruptible windup + longer sprint duration make it much easier to actually land the attack(though keep in mind uninterruptible is only from enemies’ regular attacks, disabler/elite push can still stop you). But the most fun part is definitely the newly added shield piercing ability. Previously, when fighting a shield SV, you need to first double push open the shield, then fully charge the heavy while hoping no other enemies will hit you, and then land a headshot if you didn’t properly make your build. But now all you need to do is to just hold your mouse left click a bit. On top of that, this makes War Pick by far the most satisfying weapon to use against Shielded Chaos Warrior.

The newly added h3 is now shown in the armour so here are some basic numbers: it has 10.444 cleave + armour cleave + Tank + 10% crit chance, damage wise it’s pretty much the same as l1/l2. It is pretty much useless for DPS purpose, but has amazing utility. It can only be initiated by chaining after l2, making l1 -> l2 -> h3 a very natural combo. This combo, though worse than l1 -> l2 loop for horde killing speed, has much better mixed horde control ability, thanks to the h3 being able to cleave and stagger multiple elites and break all the wood shields it touches. When fighting mixed horde, if you find charging up and hit trade with fully charged heavy is too risky, it is perfectly viable to use the l1-l2-h3 combo to generate more THP and/or control the crowd enough until you can dunk one of the elite.

Now for builds. In the end War Pick is still a slow heavy 2h weapon that is not very safe to play, so IB and Slayer are naturally the better choice by default. But RV also has enough juice to get it going if you invest enough talent points into melee/speed. IMO only Engi needs to avoid using this, even if you are going for a melee build. And for Slayer, I will provide 2 builds just for him. The Hack & Slash build will use a fast 1h weapon to allow you dodge a bit better, and the Skull Splitter build just max out your oneshot/one combo kill potential.

RV: War Pick full charge heavy 1SBS SV. Handgun 1 SBS all specials and SV/Beastigor, 1 SHS wargor

IB: War Pick full charge heavy 1SBS SV, full charge heavy + PA one shot Bestigor/Monk. Handgun 1 SBS all specials except wargor

H&S Slayer: War Pick full charge heavy 1SBS SV, full charge heavy + PA one shot Bestigor/Monk/Berserker.

Splitter Slayer: War Pick full charge heavy 1SBS SV/Bestigor/Berserker, full charge heavy + PA one shot Monk/Mauler

Crowbill

Crowbill’s changes are quite different from 1h axes. In comparison, crowbill actually lost some single target damage, but the horde clear boost is much bigger. Your new horde clear combo(h1 -> h2 -> l4) actually has decent cleave, but still use mostly the old single target combos(chain light for most elites, chain heavy for super armour). The buffed cleave on lights and PA is not enough to make them compete with h1/h2 for horde clear, though still helps your crowd control ability a bit when you don’t have time to charge up a heavy attack.

Keep in mind, although IMO crowbill is the best horde clear ‘1h axe-ish’ weapons from this update, it is still very much a single target focus weapon. On top of that, this weapon has one of the weakest DoT apply ability among all the Sienna melees, so I only really recommend pairing it with a horde clear focus staff on Pyro/UC. Necro could also make crowbill work with Malediction of Nagash by using Coru and/or Barrow Blades, but it just doesn’t have the fun factor with Reaping any more for me, so I don’t bother provide a build here, still you can absolutely try to use it with any Necro build, as long as you pick Barrow Blades for your lvl30 talent.

Pyro: Beam staff 2 SBS clan rat/fanatic with Blast; 3 SBS gor with Blast; 2 SBS assassin with Instant Snipe; 3 SBS/2 SHS rest of specials with Instant Snipe

UC: Coru shotgun 1 SBS berserker/infantry elites/specials at close range

Sienna Mace

If I have to guess which melee weapon will retain most amount of players after the hype dies down, I will vote for Sienna Mace. Although its move set is not changed at all, the buff made it into a very strong generalist weapon that can be used for literally any Sienna build.

The L1/L2 traded some direct damage for some DoT, and H1 traded some direct damage for stagger to fit with the new mace identity better. These are overall small nerfs to Mace’s single target damage potential (except for Famished Flame build). However, Mace actually had quite decent elite damage before these changes, so even after the nerf its single target damage is more than serviceable, especially when comparing to other similar CC focus Sienna melees.

The push/block/stamina buffs are very useful for defensive purpose.

And the most important changes are the H2/H3 buff. 20.88 cleave + Tank + Armour Cleave + high stagger + fire DoT application is very much unbeatable when it comes to crowd control attacks. Compare to another classic DoT apply CC attack - Fire Sword H1, the Fire Sword attack has infinite cleave + stackable DoT, but pretty much no direct damage, and in reality due to enemy density and attack speed limit, Mace has similar or in some cases better CC ability with only slightly worse DoT damage, while Mace still has actual direct damage and work with both Carve and Second Wind. You can now just spam your H2 -> H3 loop into any horde/mixed horde and see great result, or even SV patrol if you dodge those overheads here and there. This doesn’t mean Fire Sword is useless now. Its H1 attack is still faster so can pair with Opportunist easier. And due to the limitation of using actual cleave mechanic + Tank, Fire Sword H1 still have advantage when dealing with shielded enemies/Monk/CW.

The nerf of on the Mace dodge ability is also a thing to pay attention to when choosing between it and other melee options, but it really fits Mace’s new heavy CC weapon identity well, and very much make up for it with other buffs.

Combo wise, the newly buffed Sienna Mace still uses all the old combo. Use l1 -> l2 -> BC for most single target situations, and H1 -> l2 -> BC for super armour. PA and then loop H2 -> H3 is your best CC tool and horde killing tool. PA -> l3 -> l4 is useless damage wise, but you should still consider doing it to help you start H2 -> H3 loop safer since they are faster attacks.

Build wise, I have nothing to offer here, since I really think you can just slap it on any Sienna careers’ any builds, so just go try it out!

Scythe

More synergy. I still don’t think it’s a good weapon on BW, but a more melee focused Necro can pick scythe up more often now since you can get that juice extra damage by use special attack once here and there. Also just fyi, special attack works the best with Second Wind, but more than fine with Carve too.

Dagger

Added a bit more single target damage and tiny bit of horde clear on couple very specific build. Single target damage wise, you can now h1 -> h2 -> l3 for armoured target, and chain light for everything else. Because of the l3 change both combos received a good amount of boost. Cleave boost wise, this allows Sienna to cleave Marauder with 650 power and no other cleave buff, so basically just for a hybrid/melee Pyro or Necro build that uses Smiter.