u/valslikesyoga

I asked the other day on kneading techniques for fmf since I don't have a decent mixer. I found that doing slap and folds has resulted in some decent gluten formation. The dough tightens up and gets stretchy after about 20 to 30 minutes. However after it's baked, the center is very open, a little crumbly especially with thin slices. The edges are more dense. The bread is delicious and it can hold up to condiments and sandwiches as long as it's sliced thick enough. I wonder if my shaping technique is the problem. I do a classic envelope fold and roll, tucking in the ends and pulling the bottom tight against the silicone mat to create tension on top. I'm using the bread loaf recipe from Grains in Small Places, which includes milk, butter, honey and an egg. Any advice on getting more consistent crumb throughout the loaf is appreciated.

I just started baking with home milled grain. I have a Komo Mio Eco and I have a very low grade mixer (like lower quality than a kitchen aid, some unremarkable brand). I've opted to hand knead my bread dough because I doubt the mixer can handle fmf. I have no idea what home milled flour is supposed to look or feel like but I have tried milling it on the finest setting as well as milling it on a coarse setting, sifting, and milling again. It feels fairly fine but there are still large pieces of bran in it. I don't want to take them out since I want the benefit of eating them. All this to say, I am having a hard time with gluten development. I kneaded the first loaf for probably a total of about 35 - 40 minutes. Took a break somewhere in there to feed my baby. The next loaf I tried to be gentle and do this underhanded scooping technique and I thought I'd gotten some nice gluten because it stretched somewhat (still broke). Both loaves were crumbly in the middle, the second had a huge hole in the middle. I admit my shaping technique was not very good, and the second loaf was much wetter than the first. I understand there are a lot of variables here but I think if I am going to hand knead my bread I need some advice on technique. Those of you who hand knead, are you aggressive with the dough or gentle? I feel like being aggressive with it would cause the bran to be more disruptive to gluten formation, but I also wonder if after the dough is hydrated sufficiently that might not matter that much. Sorry I didn't take pictures of my bread. I made an enriched dough with 2 cups water, 4 cups fmf, oil, honey, and salt. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Advice needed - loose center

Hand kneading - aggressive or not?