r/CarlJung

The human being cannot discover their identity by following someone else’s
▲ 191 r/CarlJung

The human being cannot discover their identity by following someone else’s

We cannot find our own identity if we do not have self-exploration. When we need orientation from somewhere, an immediate response is to try to find it in other people, doctrines, religions, social role models, teachers, books, etc.

Imitation comes from the question, “Who am I supposed to be?” And if you really haven’t done deep self-exploration, it becomes easier to adopt an identity that already exists.

Carl Jung describes 3 ideas about this:

Fear of our own uncertainty: Trying to find ourselves means going to a new place. There isn’t a manual that can guarantee that we are doing the right or wrong thing, but imitation can offer you the confidence to think, “If this person lives like this, maybe I can do it too.”

In Liber Novus, he says:

“Woe to those who live according to examples! Life is not with them. If you live according to an example, then you live the life of the example, but who is to live your life, if not yourselves? Therefore, live yourselves.”

“The signposts have fallen, undefined paths lie before us.”

Collective pressure: Society provides models of what it means to be successful, good, spiritual, attractive, etc. Without psychological differentiation, we can confuse these collective models with our inner desires.

He points out in the book:

“Common laws and doctrines compel man to be solitary, so that he can escape the pressure of the unwanted community.”

“Therefore, give man dignity and let him be an individual, so that he may find his community and love it.”

“Let each person seek their own path. The path leads to mutual love in the community. People will see and feel the similarity and commonality of their paths.”

Lack of contact with the inner world: The less we know our inner desires, contradictions, fears, shadow, and unconscious impulses, the more we depend on external references to build our identity.

He says:

“The path is within us, not in the gods, nor in doctrines, nor in laws. Within us is the path, the truth, and the life.”

“You seek the path through the external, you read books and listen to opinions: what good is that supposed to do?”

“Do you not know that you yourselves are the fertile field that bears everything that serves you?”

When we are not exploring who we really are, we look for different identities outside ourselves that we can copy. It reduces uncertainty, but it can push us away from the experiences of our own lives.

This doesn’t mean that we should deprive ourselves of books. We can consume philosophy, psychology, or spirituality for years and still keep avoiding the process of knowing ourselves.

“The path is within us, not in the gods, nor in doctrines, nor in laws. Within us is the path, the truth, and the life” (Jung, 2010, p. 129).

u/Portal_awk — 4 days ago
▲ 1 r/CarlJung+1 crossposts

Need advice for next steps in therapy journey

I feel very stuck at a certain stage. I am having a hard time describing this stage so bare with me. After 3 years of dream journals 2 weeks ago I have had a dream where I meet my little self and talk to them. A couple of days later I had a realization that lasted 48 hours. It wasn't quite a realization as it was a bit trippier than that. For 48 hours I could see society as an overlay on top of life(?). I'm having a very hard time putting it into words, but I felt like I am seeing through all the rituals and how everything is made up. Like this is the historical period we happen to find ourselves, therefore these are the habits and opinions we happen to have because of the region and history we find ourselves in. It was one thing to understand it intellectually, it was another to actually experience and really feel it. I am not depressed, I haven't engaged in any hallucinogens' for 6 years now and most likely never will again. Don't drink coffee, alcohol and have a regular sleep schedule. I'm mentioning all this to eliminate the usual culprits.

My journey has been very gradual. Even when I tried to go after a trauma from 6 years old, my brain refused to remove the safety wheels. I know that it's for my own good. right now it seems I've reached into that plane of memories and traumas from 8 years old and younger and it's making me very wide eyed to say the least. I don't feel destabilized emotionally but I do feel like I'm stepping into a whole unknown territory. Like so far in shadow work I've been working on my adaptations and shame, and now it's like I'm peaking underneath the whole architecture. Like now I'm glimpsing at some completely unscathed being. And as much as I thought everything before this was a gut punch, now I'm experiencing the most harrowing realizations. How I've been pigeonholed ridiculously young. I've had my self concept collapse, nigredo/albedo stages a thousand times over already, but this one seems the most catastrophic yet. I know I'll be fine but this next chapter feels like it's asking way more off me than these previous ones. Very silly of me but I thought I was at the citrinitas stage finally a few months back and that I would safely stay there. At that point in time no more shadow work was presenting itself and I was looking for more like a blood hound. You cant blame me for feeling very confident.

So my questions are:

Has anyone else have a similar experience?

How did you go about this stage?

Anything concrete and actionable that helped you?

Should I use the same methods as before even though the material is much more primal now? I don't even know if primal is the right word but I'm trying.

I have been doing inner work very consistently for almost 2 years. It started with only somatic therapy and TRE and once I hit a wall with that I started to engage with Internal Family Systems and CBT/Gestalt. But once I started working with Jungian methods it felt like I was introduced to a whole new side of things. I already kept a dream journal so I had a treasure trove of info to go off on. Reoccurring dream characters of people I knew in real life gave me hints of where to start with shadow work. I've yet to do active imagination as I don't quite understand it.

I've checked my progress by doing a vipassana retreat once every 6-12 months. Progressively I've stopped being full Hermit so I've engaged with friendly outings and dates and I've realized some things about my animus. Throughout the months I could see how I've become more embodied with boundaries. The concept of archetypes also really helped me understand things about myself. My warrior no longer runs the show instead of my king. Still Lover isn't that developed yet and the magician is very dominant. Although the jester/trickster isn't strictly jungian or in Robert L. Moore's 4 archetypes, it's concept also helped me alot in recognizing how as a gifted child, play time has been taken away from me leading me to not have any agency for myself outside of work and achievements. I have achieved amazing things and am confident in my field, but this rarely translates in real life or relationships. It's better now but not fully healed. Country's shadow and history also had to be disentangled and I've yet to fully comb through it.

I'm afraid I havent read a full Carl Jung book as I just glossed over his methods and they clicked instantly for me so I felt no need. I know that's not the best approach but as someone that always intellectualizes, this felt like a breath of fresh air. Let my intuitive intelligence carry me and it has worked out. Although at this stage I will definitely consider an IRL jungian therapist except my country has none and that is an inconvenience to say the least..but it's figure-outable.

I guess im just feeling disoriented that after so much progress, I actually feel scared of what I'll find. Alot of times I've been knocked off, but this really feels out of my league now. I do think I'm ready as why else is my unconscious presenting me the material to work with, but still. Interestingly all this is coming up a month after I've made a decision to fully incorporate myself back into the outside world again. Paying bills, working and the boring adult stuff. 3 years ago I stopped working because of an inner dissatisfaction that lead me to Jung and therapy.

If there isn't much advice please offer some words of encouragement friends. I enjoy this sub and the posts immensely!

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u/marijavera1075 — 6 days ago