r/FoundationTV

Rewatching episode 5 of season 1, something I don't think is given enough weight in the story, is how Hari invites Gaal to Trantor to, well, essentially kidnap her into the Foundation. Not literal kidnap, of course, that was Empire, and she could have lied about psychohistory being true and be free to live whatever life she chose.

But the thing is, that didn't happen. Seeing Gaal's life on Synnax and how quickly she had to pivot from living on Synnax, studying in secret, and joining the Foundation, she basically never had any freedom at any point. Hari used Gaal for his psychohistory purposes, and it was honestly quite evil from him. He definitely deserved getting stuck for 100 years while she traveled to Synnax.

She trusted him, to finally be free to pursue knowledge, and his intention was to immediately coerce her into joining his cult. And then when she arrives at his ship instead of Raych he has the gall to be mad at her!!! His intention was to bring her from a water planet to a freezing planet and have her die of old age establishing the Foundation, but he never thought of what she might want! She never gave him informed consent!

Yes, he was doing it all to save humanity, but..... He was still a huge asshole. I think his wife would have been disappointed in him. I don't know why exactly Kalle (aka Earth's robots) was so sympathetic to him, to the point of bringing him back to life. The man is very morally nuanced. He might be doing things for the greater good, but he's not being in any way ethical about the way he does them.

Also, good on Gaal for manipulating New Terminus Hari on season 3!!! "Oh I don't like living in a box for hundreds of years" well, you put yourself there!!!! Am I supposed to feel sorry for you? I don't! Looking back, Hari is so much more manipulative than he first appears. Definitely not any kind of hero.

EDIT: actually, I forgot something huge. HE TOOK AWAY HER OPPORTUNITY OF SAVING SYNNAX. The people of Synnax had been indoctrinated by their priest class into doing nothing about the global worming that would kill them. If Gaal had been free to become something she chose, a scholar at a university or something like that, she could have tried to save her home, her people. But they all died, and if Hari hadn't immediately recruited Gaal into the Foundation, their culture could have been saved. In this sense, Hari is indirectly responsible for a whole ethnic group's disappearance

Why does it feel like the longer the show has gone on, the more the characters have devolved into what feels like saturday morning cartoon characters? Absolutely over the top silly acting as the show progresses, whereas when it started, only a few of the actors were meh.

We know Cleon the 1st enslaved Demerzel in his dusk form, and we learn thats when he solved the succession question by implementing the cloning system. So how did Cleon the 2nd work? Was he a baby and Demerzel was regent until he reached brother Day form? Or did they go straight into making a Day form clone and a Dawn clone? Or was it something entirely different?

Could not understand the reason why Gaal Dornick refuse to bring Hari Seldon? As I understand, real Hari has died a long time ago in S1, the Hari who was asking at end of S3 basically is a living AI program. Why would Gaal refuse to bring a set of knowledge with her? Did she feel threatened by the existence of Hari Seldon as an AI?

MY GOODNESS WHAT A SHOW!!!! Every season was just so good! And I loved season 3! I thought the Mule twist was pretty unnecesary, but whatever. It does make the Mule more threatening.

In any case, the reason I am here is to talk about Demerzel!!!! My love!!!! She's dead 😭😭😭. How dare they!!! I've always been particularly invested in robot and AI characters, and honestly, she might have become my favorite one of all time. Obviously, I need to let the show marinate in my mind for a bit. But she was GLORIOUS.

As saddened as I am about her death, it was a fitting end for her character. So tragic! God, what a fascinating concept for a robot character. A real, full person, forced by their programming to do monstrous things. And she had already managed to get free from her initial programming!!! Only to then be immediately enslaved again by Cleon I!!! Btw, it's on sight for Cleon I. My god, what an evil, egocentric, ridiculous, monstrous man. Episodes 9 and 10 of season 2 were so good!!!! The explanation of Demerzel as the mastermind behind the throne.

And now she's dead!!! And she was so close to freedom, too! But her character is extremely morally complex, and tragic, and so her ending is very fitting indeed. As satisfying as it would have been to see her finally freed, and as fascinating as it would have been to see what she would do with that freedom, it would never have been as interesting as the trapped Demerzel. Her dying according to her programming is a fitting end. But oh, so tragic.

Although, if the show lasts more than 4 seasons, which I highly doubt, it would be great for her to come back! She certainly could! When she died her programming chip had been melted off, and she could have the ability to change bodies. It's certainly more interesting than Hari Seldon being resurrected again lol.

In any case, what an incredible hidden gem of a show!!!! A sci-fi masterpiece, truly!!! What do you guys think? It wasn't perfect, imo, but whatever, nothing ever is. And the highs are so high, aren't they??

EDIT: I HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS. THIS IS ENTIRELY ABOUT THE SHOW

I'm rewatching the show after having finished it. There were so many twists, details, resolved mysteries, shocking revelations.... It all gets a bit muddled.

I'm on episode 2 right now, and Hari intends to kill himself so he can become two AIs of himself. He intends for Gaal to live and die on Terminus, which she won't. He also wants to found a Second Foundation, on a location that is ultimately not where it is founded.

He is able to predict a whole bunch of things thanks to psychohistory, the Prime Radiant specifically.

So, did he and his wife build the Radiant? Or did they get help from Kalle (which is to say, the robots who now inhabit Earth)?

In any case, he's about to make a grand speech, swallow a pill to copy his mind... Into both a knife and his coffin? And he knows the AI in the coffin will lack information about the Second Foundation and whatnot. But it also will be able to transform his coffin into a 4-dimensional ship of sorts. That part becomes confusing to me. How is that supposed to work? How does he know how to do that?

He's also said psychohistory can't predict the behavior of individual people. And yet, he knows about the future Mule? Or does he not? I'm not sure.

He also lied to Empire about his plans. He doesn't intend for humanity to go through a period of 1000 years of darkness, right? His actual plan is to build up the Foundation (and I guess the second foundation or whatever), to rival the Empire, yes? Although his calculations about the Empire and humanity's fall without his intervention are still correct, as I understand it. Gaal confirmed he was right about the math.

Then there's Demerzel, who believed that Hari was correct in his calculations, even though she hadn't examined psychohistory (the Radiant) herself. In any case, she was willing to destroy the Star Bridge, and frame people from Anacreon and Thespis, so that Cleon XII would believe Hari was right and would give him the ship to go to Terminus and carry out his plan (I think Demerzel believes Hari is telling them (Empire) the truth about his plans, even though he isn't).

And then, how do the Mentallics play into all of this??? Are they uniquely able to change the course of events? Obviously they are telepaths, but Gaal can also see the future. And you have her, Salvor, and the Mule, at least, who play major roles in the different crisis.

Is there something I'm forgetting? Something else that I should be taking into account while rewatching this?

I want to understand, with my retroactive information, what exactly is going on, who is planning what, at any given time. Thanks!! 🩵🩵