r/IrishRebelArchive

Hi, I'm a yank w the tism just doing a deep dive into understanding The Troubles. I have made my way through much of "The Troubles Podcast", I've watched a number of documentaries, and I've read "Say Nothing" & I'm about halfway through "Voices from the Grave." I've listened to criticism of those two books & I have a very expanded reading list, those two are just the most accessible starting points for me.

I'm trying to understand how Han Solo: "never tell me the odds" the landscape was for Brendan Hughes when he was an OC on the outside [as in not the OC in Long Kesh.] i feel like getting completely accurate numbers would be a challenge/impossible and I'm also not sure where to even find good sources to look into. If the Troubles Podcast did an episode on this and I missed it: my bad.

Do I understand all the factions at play first?

Loyalist: UDA was the biggest and I saw somewhere they said they could rally like 30k in boots.[My link provided merely says tens of thousands.] Idk if thats accurate but I heard they had the biggest pool of bodies. Then theres the UVF. ⬇️ the linked BBC article discusses some numbers. Security sources have previously said that with more than 2,000 members [UDA]. Then theres like much smaller groups like the LVF & Red Hand Commandos. Those are the others that did enough violence they should be counted right?

[BBC is a British souce, sorry about that. This article is just covering the loyalist groups to cite my source.]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-65092928

Republicans: The Official IRA was not as big once the Provos got secured, after the Officials stopped trying to stop the Provos in the beginning. The officials are the ones sometimes called "The stickies" right? Or is that a different group? Then there was the Provos which I saw somewhere they had like maybe 1200 active members not imprisoned at their height. However areas like Armagh were more secure than say Belfast and idk if they were recording their numbers or not reporting it? Then the INLA, which is thought was the next biggest and most active group. Then, there were another number of splinter, smaller level groups, were any else large enough to have numbers that did damage? Generally pretty small and at times according I think to "The Troubles Podcast" occasionally there were groups that were merely a cover or a front for an operation, and so would have already been "counted" in the main faction they volunteered for.

RUC: this is just the policing force of the North right? So I'm thinking like the equivalent of police forces here in rural US. Because of the violence, did they have a lot of police? Is that different due to the environment?

B-Specials: these were the part time locally recruited volunteer police force, that was called like a "special reserve" but was like a quasi-military unit. However they were more present during the 1920's and the border dispute from 1956-1962 according to Wikipedia.] So far, I don't recall hearing about them during the 1970's and onward: by that point were they still present or did they become something else?

British Army: Wikipedia on "Operation Banner" said 300k served in that operation and at the peak of the operation in the 1970s had around 21k in troops deployed.

SAs: The British special forces, I dont even know if this is recorded somewhere it could be tallied, or if its put in with the army numbers?

Mi5: The British intelligence operatives, I feel like I probably wont be able to find that info online.

Garde in the Republic: they were more just a policing factor if you crossed over and were wanted and on the run right? I dont recall anything saying the Garde were doing much with either side, but could say, arrest you at a check point if you were wanted? Do I understand the Garde's role?

Logistical Supporter: folks in the republic or in the North that were not active as paramilitaries but helped move supplies, gave shelter, smuggled things. Then the Yanks who gave money. I feel like as military operations are won and lost often in logistics, the extended support systems matter a lot. Brendan was pretty confident he could easily take shelter or hide out anywhere on the Falls road: but that was just him. Could any Provo get that safety? I dont know anything about the support networks the loyalists had or how well supported they were in and out of country. Brendan refers to "Dublin" a few times, I'm not totally sure i always know who is represented in "Dublin" if its Provo leadership or Official leadership they broke away from.

Catholic Church: I dont recall reading anything that discussed an official stance by the church, but there were individual priests who helped and some who died. Are we talking maybe a handful of guys, or were there hundreds of priests who individually helped?

Prod Church: I dont know much about the Prod churches involvement beyond that Ian Paisley was vocal and an organizer for loyalists. I dont know how much Prod churches supported the loyalist factions. ​

Armagh & Rural areas: my understanding of the rural areas & especially Armagh, the Republicans all knew each other well. So they were far less infiltrated and operated more autonomously, though they had meetings with and communicated to do strategies and cooperation with their counterparts like in Belfast. I do recall reading somewhere that Brendan Hughes said Rural operations could be successful with a lot less boots. You could do in rural areas with say 20, what would take 40 in Belfast.

Did I forget anyone important? I did lump most of the smaller groups together without mention, did any have enough they should count more?

I understand that in guerilla war tactics, its generally a much smaller force against a larger one. However the odds seem disproportionately not in favor of the Provos and the Republicans. I'm trying to give it a rough estimate picture of just numbers. I read somewhere at one point 10,000 Republicans were imprisoned at one time [unless they meant through the whole war but it didnt seem like it.] Im just trying to just get rough grasp and its a lot of factions at play.

My Mother had a friend in the 90's who moved to the US from the North, she was a Catholic. Claire said everyone Catholic was sorta touched by the Republican movemebt in someway. Everybody knew at least one someone who was a paramilitary Republican. Claire didnt talk about it at all much and my Ma didn't ask, but that statement stuck with my Ma. That all the ordinary everyday folk, all knew somebody who had to be very brave.

I found out in that same talk with my Ma, during the 90's my Dad had a buddy who came from the North and was a paramilitary. My Dad had been raised Catholic but became a Prod, & i think they met via our church, so i have a fear my Dad was buddy's w a loyalist but Ma & Da swear he was a republican. I just struggle to imagine a Republican paramilitary being involved with a non-denominational prod yankee church? Our nondemonational evangelical cult church? I heard about Ian Paisley connecting with Yankee Evangelicals, it seems more likely my Dad just didnt understand which side: but they had a decent albeit only a few years long friendship. They discussed the troubles a few times and bonded about firearms. This would have been somewhere like 1995-1998. That just seems unlikely he would have been a Republican with Yankee Prod connections to me, but maybe i dont know enough? This area is predominantly Irish Catholic, so in those terms theres a lot more resources and support here, but they met via the Prod church. My parents never told me his name or anything. He didnt stay in the Midwest long. We live in a very Irish Catholic area about 2 hrs from Chicago. Even though we went to Prod churches, i still went to an Irish Catholic private school & had a very Catholic upbringing.

I really appreciate this sub, someone posting Bobby Sands "Alone and Condemned" writing piece here, is how I ended up finding and reading more of his journals and writings. [I found a pdf link if anyone wants it and or if hasnt been posted here yet.]

I have appreciated the resources, first hand accounts, and pictures provided here as I've been hyperfixating. I intend to read many more books on this and repeatedly come back to this reddit for recommendations and to just read through posts. If this has been discussed here already and I missed it: my apologies. If this isnt the place for this discussion, my apologies.

Brevity is not my gift, so thanks for reading all of this. I appreciate any feedback, comments, or resources to read from on this topic. I am hoping this sub is the correct place to ask, apologies if its better placed elsewhere. Appreciate it 💚🤍

18 year before the worst civilian attack in Derry since Bloody Sunday the bar was bombed by loyalists, along with a pub in Newtownbutler, the bomb at the Rising Sun only partially exploded & seems like it was planted in the toilets. Four months later the bar was bombed again but this time much worse & the nearby Foyle View Bar was also bombed, the second bombing in early February 1976 caused such damage much of the bar had to be rebuilt.

I'm guessing this would have been the work of the UDA rather than the UVF, as the UVF seemed stronger in Armagh, south & east Tyrone & west Down but the UDA had a stronger presence in north & west Derry, both were strong in most of east Antrim (the UDA a little more so) & east Down (the UVF a little more so) but neither were strong in Fermanagh which seen the least tit-for-tat cycles of violence started by either the UDA or UVF.

Would most people agree this would be the work of the UDA? Other than the UVF the only other loyalists groups capable of this were the Red Hand Commando who were a Proxy of the UVF by 1972 anyway, and Down Orange Welfare who's activities were confined to rural Down, although their leader is the only one to have suggested a 32-County Irish Republic believing unionist & Fine Gael votes would out number Fianna Fail, Sinn Fein & Socialist votes.

I noticed Loyalists attacked several places in the 70's that would become famous for massacres in the late 80s/early 90s. Boyles bar in Cappagh was bombed by the Glenanne Gang in 1974, killing one and injuring 4, the Avenue bar that the UVF shot up & killed 3 civilians in & injured 6 in May 88 (first time the vz.58 rifles were used), in 1973 was bombed killing one & bombed again in 76 killing 2, the Sunflower bar was bombed twice in 74 killing , Conway's Bar was bombed 4 years in a row, in 73, 74, 75 76 killing 6 people,etc

Wiki's description of the attack. "the INLA killed an RUC officer (Gary Martin) and injured three other officers, two of them seriously, with a booby-trap bomb hidden in a lorry at the junction of Shaw's Road and Glen Road, Andersonstown, Belfast."

This would have been around the time Steenson's de facto separate/parrallel INLA Brigade was racking up scores of successful attacks, leading other Volunteers to view Steenson as the de facto Commander of the Belfast INLA, as the leadership associated Brigade was viewed as not nearly as dynamic & militarily effective as the Steenson organisation.

Buried in Deansgrange

Staft Capt. O'Callaghan was on one of the Republican Army's special patrols to counter recent bombings of Nationalist Ghetto areas in Belfast.

He died defending the people he loved and in whom he had put so much faith.

IRA volunteer Hugh Coney was shot dead by a British soldier after the republican POW had tunneled his way out of Long Kesh in 1974 and attempted to escape across fields.

Wonderful historical display and great turn out for the commemoration here this past Saturday despite the weather. Banner in the first photo was the last banner used before 9/11 which greatly diminished American support for armed resistance. Music from Seanachaí after the commemoration. Commemoration was held by multiple republican orgs here including Cumann na Saoirse Náisiúnta, the Connolly Association, O’Donovan Rossa GAA, the Gaelic American and New York Fenian Bhoys CSC.