r/ironflame

Okay, so I accidentally came up with the funniest and increasingly most terrifying possible future for the Fourth Wing universe.

It started with me imagining Violet and Xaden like 20 years after the books. They survive everything, get their happy ending, get married, have kids, etc.

Their oldest daughter eventually goes to Basgiath and becomes a rider.

Now, signets aren't just random superpowers. They tend to manifest around something the rider fundamentally needs. Mira wanted to protect people, so she developed wards. Brennan wants to fix things, so he's a mender. Xaden's entire childhood taught him that he needed secrets and control, so he got shadows and an ability related to reading intentions. Violet's second signet, dream-walking, also connects to something she desperately needed.

So imagine being Violet and Xaden's daughter.

Your entire childhood consists of hearing stories about your parents.

Your mother is VIOLET SORRENGAIL. She bonded TWO dragons and can call down enough lightning to turn a battlefield into God's personal bug zapper.

Your father is XADEN RIORSON. He controls shadows, can read people's intentions, and became one of the most dangerous riders alive.

These aren't just your parents. They're basically living legends.

And even if Violet and Xaden are wonderful parents who constantly tell their daughter, "You don't have to be like us. We will love you no matter what," that doesn't mean SHE doesn't feel the pressure.

She grows up thinking:

"My mother could control a battlefield just by walking onto it."

"My father could control a battlefield just by walking onto it."

"If people ever depend on me, I need to be able to do that too."

Then she manifests her signet.

Terrain wielding.

Not "earthbending." Not "I throw rocks."

She can literally CONTROL THE BATTLEFIELD.

Raise walls. Open fissures. Collapse terrain. Create cover. Change elevations. Break enemy formations. Potentially bring down fortifications by altering the ground underneath them.

Mom controls the sky.

Dad controls the shadows.

Daughter controls the fucking ground everyone is standing on.

Which is already hilarious because leadership was worried about what kind of absurd rider Violet and Xaden might produce.

Turns out: THEY WERE RIGHT.

But then I realized this creates a much funnier problem.

Because now the NEXT generation grows up hearing:

"Your great-grandmother wielded lightning."

"Your great-grandfather wielded shadows."

"Your grandmother could rearrange the geography."

So THEY feel pressure to live up to the family.

One manifests light wielding.

Next one gets precognition.

Next generation:

"What's this one's signet?"

"Well...they amplify other people's signets."

"Excuse me?"

"They can make other riders' signets stronger."

"So if they stand next to a fire wielder—"

"The fire wielder becomes artillery."

"Goddammit."

At this point Basgiath develops an unofficial rule:

WATCH OUT FOR SORRENGAIL-RIORSONS.

Then another one comes through.

Everyone is terrified waiting for the manifestation.

And the kid goes:

"I think I figured out my signet."

Command: "Oh no."

"I can copy other people's signets."

"...what?"

Someone produces fire.

They produce fire.

Someone controls water.

Now they control water.

Someone uses shadows.

"NO. STOP TESTING IT."

Basically their psychological need was:

"If somebody else can do something, I need to be able to do it too, or I'm not living up to my family."

And magic apparently went:

"Understandable. Here you go."

BUT THEN IT GETS WORSE.

Because now the next generation grows up hearing:

"Your ancestors controlled lightning, shadows, terrain, light, foresight, amplified other people's magic, and your mother could COPY SIGNETS."

So this poor bastard's psychological need becomes:

"There cannot be anything I am incapable of doing."

They manifest.

Nothing happens.

Basgiath celebrates.

FINALLY.

A NORMAL SORRENGAIL-RIORSON.

Then somebody realizes the kid doesn't actually have a conventional signet.

They can manipulate MAGIC ITSELF.

Everyone else gets raw magic from their dragon and their personality/needs basically force it through one particular shape.

Fire.

Lightning.

Shadows.

Healing.

Whatever.

This person can apparently grab the magic BEFORE it becomes a specific signet and decide what it's going to do.

Fire?

Sure.

Lightning?

Sure.

Shadows?

Sure.

Terrain?

Sure.

Mending?

Why not?

At that point they're not asking:

"What can my signet do?"

They're asking:

"What can MAGIC do?"

And that's when the joke becomes genuinely terrifying, because this family has basically spent six generations accidentally breeding people who are approaching godhood.

Not because there's necessarily some magical "powerful parents make genetically stronger babies" rule.

It's because THE FAMILY REPUTATION ITSELF KEEPS MAKING THE NEXT GENERATION WORSE.

Every generation grows up under more pressure than the previous one.

Every generation thinks:

"I have to live up to them."

And because signets manifest according to deep psychological needs, magic keeps responding:

"Okay."

Until eventually Basgiath's official policy should just be:

FOR THE LOVE OF DUNNE, STOP TELLING SORRENGAIL-RIORSON CHILDREN HOW POWERFUL THEIR ANCESTORS WERE.

Because every time someone tells one of these kids:

"You have a lot to live up to."

Magic apparently interprets it as a fucking challenge.

Imagine being some exhausted commandant 150 years after Violet:

"Commandant, another Sorrengail-Riorson crossed the parapet."

"...shit."

"They're actually very nice."

"THEY'RE ALWAYS NICE."

"They don't seem particularly powerful."

"THEY NEVER DO AT FIRST."

"They said they don't even care about living up to their family."

"That's what the last one said, and now she can SEE TOMORROW."

Three years later:

"Sir, they manifested."

"What does it do?"

"We don't have a name for it."

"..."

"Sir?"

"Evacuate Basgiath."

"But—"

"NOW."

At that point the family motto isn't even a motto anymore.

It's a warning:

Never give a Sorrengail-Riorson something to live up to. Magic has an alarming tendency to help them do it.

Naolin is definitely younger or in the same year as brennan and most likely his lover and male It could be that both loved each other but never got the chance

As it is confirmed in threshing day novella that he is gay.

Also i am saying this as in the threshing day novella his exact line regarding wanting to bond a black dragon was “I would have loved a black dragon, but none are willing to bond this year."

We know only two black dragons one is codagh who was already bonded during that time and tairn

So he said "not willing" and not "not vacant" that means during this time tairn has to be unbonded. That would mean naolin is younger than brennan.

Don't read this if you haven't read books 1-3 and Threshing Day!

I haven't exactly figured out all points of the theory, but I think some of the dragons are wanting their riders to turn, or at least just know in advance that they will. And I think it has something to do with the hatching ground maybe... ? Which is why some eggs are missing at the end of Onyx Storm.

And hand in hand with this... What if "the brother" Xaden talks about in his POV, isn't the only one who has also turned? What if ALL the missing cadets mentioned in OS are now venin?

Because when I heard Garrick's POV in Threshing Day, I was certain he was the venin brother.

"It might surprise you to find that nothing is too difficult to me." - Garrick

"Quite the contrary, I'm counting on it." - Chradh

So is Chradh counting on something being too difficult for Garrick... ? Perhaps, Garrick not having enough power to save his friends, making him channel... ?

(Or maybe he just means he's counting on the fact that Garrick will stop at nothing for those he cares about, but that too could be foreshadowing, right?)

But then when I heard Bodhi's, I could see how he could be the venin brother too, because of quotes like, "... until your death or demise." said by Cuir, as well as when Bodhi vows he will "never be powerless again."

So what if they both end up venin, along with some of the others?

In Threshing Day, Xaden admits to Sgaeyl that he plans to burn Basgiath to the ground, and then he's surprised that she's okay with that because the Vale is there and that's their hatching ground...

So what if the dragons wanted them to turn or knew they would turn, and it helps the dragons to break free of having to help Navarrians because they could start a new hatching ground in Aretia? And that's why there are eggs missing at the end of OS!

So perhaps these dragons know their riders enough to know they won't completely turn/lose their souls because they're turning for the right reasons? I DON'T KNOW!

But something that works against my theory is Sgaeyl telling Xaden not to channel for her when she's tied up... I don't know how that would fit in 🤔

But as I said, I haven't worked it all out yet. And I could definitely be COMPLETELY wrong. I just wanted to share to see other people's take on this.

Can all the dragons be trusted?

Did more than one other person turn? (Garrick, Bodhi, the other missing riders, one of which could be Aaric... ?)

Discuss this with me, please! Talk me down from my crazy theories or back me up with them!

And can the next book please come out this winter?! 😭

In threshing day novella asher gives the bracelet to brennan and tells him

That "Our hearts couldn't take it if anything happened to you," and we all know that asher died because of heart failure after brennan "supposedly" died. Could it be that, that the bracelet had an extra life for brennan, as in if he dies he gets one more chance at life in exchange of asher's life. The bracelet was connected to asher's life force.

Theory: What if Andarna bonded Xaden at the end of Onyx Storm?
Okay, hear me out. What if Andarna bonded Xaden during Violet’s missing twelve hours, and Violet doesn’t remember it because she had Imogen erase her memories?
At the end of Xaden’s POV, he thinks “she promised to help.” The obvious interpretation is Violet—but what if Andarna also promised to help him?
There are a few things making me suspicious:
Leothan specifically says Andarna is “fond” of Xaden. That’s an interesting detail considering we haven’t seen much of their relationship directly.
Near the ending, Andarna says “I won’t let them burn you.” We assume she’s speaking to Violet, but Violet also notices movement in the shadows to her right around this scene. What if Xaden is there and Andarna is actually speaking to him? “Burn” would be particularly meaningful now that Xaden is venin.
Throughout Onyx Storm, Andarna repeatedly talks about “every possible path.” What if she’s been looking for a path that saves Xaden?
Violet already proves that normal bonding rules aren’t absolute: one rider can bond two dragons. What if irids can do the reverse—one dragon can bond two riders?
Andarna has known Xaden since Fourth Wing. She’s watched him protect Violet, protect Andarna’s secrets, fight at Resson, and eventually sacrifice himself at Basgiath. So if she chooses him, it wouldn’t simply be because Violet asked. Andarna has had three books to decide for herself that Xaden is worth saving.
Most importantly, the missing twelve hours are the perfect place to hide a second bond from the reader. We already know major things happened during that period: Violet and Xaden married, Violet arranged to lose her memories, Xaden left, Garrick disappeared, etc. What else don’t we remember?
What if that’s why some of the mental communication at the end seems ambiguous? If Andarna is now bonded to both Violet and Xaden, the three of them may have a new mental connection.
It could also eventually be part of the venin cure. Venin take power directly from the source, while riders receive power through their dragons. Maybe an irid bond gives Xaden another connection to magic—or helps sever/stabilize his connection to the source.
So maybe “I won’t let them burn you” wasn’t Andarna protecting Violet.
Maybe it was Andarna making her first promise to her new rider.
And if Book 4 reveals that Andarna chose Xaden not because Violet asked her to, but because she independently decided he was worth saving. Thoughts?