r/romandodecahedron

What if roman dodecahedrons were physical encryption/decryption devices?

A strip of leather, cloth, or parchment with text written on could be wrapped around and through the dodecahedron in a specific pattern, using the knobs as guides or anchor points.

When looking through a particular hole only certain letters would be visible. A Part of this visible letters would form the actual message, while the rest of the text would act as concealment.

If these objects were produced in matching pairs then only to person can comunicate together.

One dodecahedron would belong to the sender and one to the receiver. A message encoded using one dodecahedron could only be decoded correctly with its matching counterpart.

This would explain why Standardization was unnecessary, Different sizes and hole arrangements were actually desirable, The objects were valuable enough to be cast in bronze, No written explanation survives, since a cryptographic tool would be intentionally secret.

Has anyone tried, testing whether a wrapped text strip could function as a practical cipher system?

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u/Mr-Duderino — 19 hours ago

I made one in clay, unsure of dimensions though

So, I like messing around with clay and decided to give this one ago. I've never seen one made in ceramics before.
I don't think any historical ones were found in ceramics, which is also something to think about.

Anyway, this one is based on the dodecahedron from Tongeren, I used the dimensions as specified by Nouwen.
But he doesn't define what he meant by height, and with puzzling, drawing lines in CAD on various photos, I can only make it kind of fit if he defines height as the distance between oposing vertices with and without knobs.

The Saint-Venant book is clearer and defines it as the distance between opposing faces with and without knobs. The values are different from Nouwen. There could have been more consistency in naming and measuring.
Nouwen also specifies the opposing face diameters, but not the order, so those are somewhat visually based on the pictures I saw.

That said I didn't investigate that deeply, I just wanted to make one, not do a whole literature study.
I think I figured out how to make them way cleaner and neater by including the ornaments as a stamp in the "template" that I use to cut the pentagons. Also the little balls could be a bit neater, I still have to think about that, they are very tiny.

u/Tonnemaker — 2 days ago

One for the experts out there ...

Is there a database of dimensions of found dodecahedron's? I know the holes are of different sizes but is each hole a random size, or is there always one hole that is larger/smaller than the rest?

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u/EWW-25177 — 2 days ago

Survey device - string to knobs for precision?

Knotted string heald in mouth to calibrate the sighting through the different hole apertures?

Isnt there something similar for old sexton?

Not really obvious to me how the view through the pairs works. I don't know if it measures 10ft or 100 meters, or miles.

Any record of the dodecahedron found with engineers or scientists?

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u/bartork — 3 days ago

I wanted to cast one to try to figure it out

so I 3-D printed it, with castable resin, and then lost wax, cast it in Sterling silver holding it in your hand, wondering about the purpose I think somehow maybe you rolled it like a dice, but the smallest hole has something to do with the overall function of it. I may eventually sell it on eBay. I probably will. I’ll probably cast a bigger one the smaller one it’s just hard to attach the sprue To model.

u/IntelligentCorner225 — 6 days ago

Is there an RD in the US?

I was asking AI on where the closest dodecahedron was in the US and it could not find any reference in any major museum collection. Does anyone know a must that may have one? AI checked the east and west coast plus the Midwest.

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u/ctcourt — 6 days ago

Roman Dodecahedron as a jewellers finger measure

I've just received a 3D printed copy of a museum scan of a dodecahedron (I'll link the source below). It's great to finally have one in the hand, a few observations now that I can handle it.

  • The protrusions feel even more like "feet" to me now - at all angles the object rests stably on 5 feet (more or less).
  • The inner circles are very smooth, something could rotate within quite easily.

However the object is still quite baffling, although one thought did occur to me that I'll throw in to the ring - maybe it's a jewellers tool for sizing fingers for ring making. A jeweller might have the skill to create such an object, even though it would be far simpler to make one from wood. Jewellers might copy them from other jewellers once observed. My fingers fit quite nicely into several of the holes, the next step is to find some example ring sizes from the same era to compare.

The scan I used:

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-dodecahedron-242168

EDIT: There are some Dodecahedron examples where the holes are a bit larger than average finger sizes which makes this idea a bit less likely.

u/starquakegamma — 10 days ago

Could it be just a thing you jam on the end of a stick to tie things to?

It appears the opposite holes are different sizes, so this would allow it to be jammed securely into a tapered piece of wood, e.g. a tent pole. You’d then have something potentially on the end of a long stick, extremely well suited to tying or otherwise attaching things to, perhaps even poking other sticks/poles into.
The Romans were renowned for their efficiency in setting up and taking down camp, maybe this was a special sort of their more fancy tents?

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u/BirdUp69 — 10 days ago