2 years later: here's the 3 words (IMHO and why)
2 years ago, I posted this:
I avoided giving out the exact answer, in the hopes of finding someone 'local' who could check out the location... After discussion with 2 interested podcasters, and a handful of others, nobody has even managed to visit the spot yet. Below I detail all of the discussion and action so far. I hoped for someone to document the spot, and avoid vandalism or someone just rushing out and removing whatever is there, etc.
First of all: The 3 words are window barns wells
The only "new piece" is using Window for "entries" I'll assume you are aware of Barns and Wells, and why the order is different (doll order in photo are different from dolls on desk ) So why Window, first of all, and then where does this point?
The clue is Entries:
My first "huh? That's weird" was Sam entering Comic Guy's house. He leaps into the backyard and goes straight to the window. Which has bars which have already been bent away, and there is something to step on. How did he know this, and go so quickly to it? Makes no sense, unless...
So the clue is Entries, plural, so are there other 'entries'?
Yes, many:
He climbs into Sarah's window first, into her empty apartment.
The Owl Lady enters thru a window when she is introduced, and the description and animation explicitly says she does. (It's also in the script). She doesn't in the video tape, we see her enter but she does not climb in that window. Or rather Sam sees this, in his delusions.
[Reason for Sam's knowledge, and why he IS the killer: Sam killed Comic Guy, which is why he knew about the window gate being opened. He looked at the bed, realized that entering when Comic Guy was sleeping would not be monitored since the TVs were behind the wall when he's in that bed sleeping.]
- The broken window/door in Sam's apartment, glass is on floor, but Sam's behavior is so erratic, looking in drawer for The Owl Lady, it's possible he broke the window himself, as he is an unreliable narrator... He later sleeps on that spot on broken glass? Perhaps there is no glass, nor a broken window?
So that's 3... But let's add a few more.
How do _we_enter the story? With a window... A window with a clue. That's how we first see everything: We enter the story thru a window.
When Sam exits the tunnel from the 2001 set/tomb, he ends up in the store fridge, and we see him thru a window. (Ok, this is an exit, but... It's a bonus clue anyway)
He spies on Topless Cat Lady and Sarah at the start of the movie, and his posture/manner is that of the main character (played by Jimmy Stewart) in Hitchcock's Rear Window (kudos to IMDB trivia for this fact) and since Hitchcock is also a tombstone, so another combo reference/clue
Also in the coffee shop, he focuses on the girls behind the kitchen window(s).
He spies with his buddy via drone thru a window.
So it's clear he peers thru multiple windows... and enters thru more than one...
So Window is a multiple clue given all the time. It's definitely Entries.
I've since realized that even the billboard adds the clue yet again: The contact lenses are windows for your eyes.
So where does this point? WIth these 3 words:
It points to a spot located in DEEP in the middle of the Wind Wolves Preserve, which is near I-5, between LA and Bakersfield.
How does this fit? Story clues? Makes sense?
They don't have any wolves. They have coyotes. Yup, it's a coyote preserve. Follow the coyote.
In the end of the movie, the book The I-5 Killer is on coffee table. Another clue to the location. This is NOT in the script.
The script is online as a pdf, and it's very good for seeing what they added to the filming. While the Sheriff and Tombstones are in the script, wells and barns are not... So it was all added by a puzzle crafter, since that's not some minor set design detail, it was intentional.
- The entire site area is home to a variety of native rock art, which fits the hobo logo motif, so I suspect the spot is near some, and maybe a geocached treasure (unknown, could be a sign, could be a note, could be anything, could be nothing of course.
Why here?
It's within 2+ hours of LA, it's (nominally) public (see below), with free admission, yet it's got caretakers. The Spot is not on the normal hiking paths, it's deep in the wild part, but it's not unreachable, it's only likely to be found by direct intent.
It's placed such that I suspect it's still untouched, it's on a slightly treed spot close to some trails, but not too close. This place is isolated enough to be left alone, and in fact, it's HARD to get to... Nobody I've shared with has managed to get there yet.
Would the folks who crafted this puzzle be aware of this place? Yes, it's a well known 'wild area' for hiking, it's reachable by car (parking and free camping), and likely was picked due to the location combo of distance, isolation, theme, and potential reward
Even if the end result is that it points to native art work like <><> that would be HUGE. Geocache? Sign? Could be anything...
Hopefully one of you will confirm that this fits better than any other answer so far.
An LA puzzle crafter/team would have been able to get this place, know it's likely to stay there, and not found, and thus the time/energy spent to embed this puzzle into the film would be worthwhile (imagine if found in weeks... I doubt they expected 5+ years though).
The original script DID NOT have some of the elements:
The dolls had no codes, No Morse code in coffee shop, the clues leading to Morse code, the name of the Sheriff, the exact Tombstones to be shown. What WAS in the script? The Windows. All of the windows.
So if window was the word they used to start with, that likely influenced the exact spot of the mystery, and then they added Barns and Wells to lock it in.
Coyote was another item in the script. The graveyard and sheriff are in script, no names though... so again, they picked those words...
Funny enough, for red herrings, the script has a password for the party balloon girl brings Sam downstairs to at the cemetary...
The password: tricycle bicycle... This goes back to cereal, which is also a false clue of 'entries', as is the cookie being a used as an entry ticket...
So Entries is a very sneaky misdirection clue. Perfect. It's got multiple red herrings. It worked. Perhaps too well.
So they were in LA, and got the idea of this puzzle... Maybe they did some "what locations near here start with window(s)...." Found the wolves preserve and realized this would work. Maybe they were aware of Wind Wolves first (primitive art?) and looked for/found a "window" spot.
Which is why it's SO far inside the preserve. Unknown.
But either way, it's reasonable to be sound puzzle crafter logic, and fit the other clues.
The extra clues/details get added by the film staff:
the dolls placards with zodiac code, the morse code in the coffee menu, the code clues to the coffee menu, the E=EE on billboard, the dolls photo to swap the order, the clues for Sheriff and Tombstone get shot with specific words in order to fit the location clues.
I'm pretty sure DRM/etc are laughing their asses off that the ONE clue nobody saw was the one most obvious: Window.
The clue you look right thru, until you see it and once you see it, you can't unsee it.
What do you think?
The manager of Wild Wolves Preserve has a email and phone number on the website.
The website: Wildlandsconservancy.org/preserves/windwolves
I had one person who volunteered to go look, but he didn't get too far:
Hey I drove up today. Ran into a locked gate with barbed wire covering the entire area with a “private property no tresspassing” sign. No way for me to get through other than climbing the gate. That was about 10miles from the location. Going to try one more route but got a feeling I’ll run into the private property again. Just made it back to my car. The trail through Wind Wolves preserve also leads to private property with a gate and barbed wire. 5 miles from the site. So doesn’t seem accessible at all! Seems doubtful they’d hide anything that far into private property. Bummer!
Me to them: It is absolutely not on 'private' property, that land is mapped as the Preserve... Did you talk to anyone at the Preserve?
Them: There were no Rangers or other employees to be found anywhere. Pretty weird. It seems like a pretty popular hiking spot though. There were a good amount of hikers on the established trails. But I will send you some pictures when I get home. Of what I saw, and I will show you on a map where I was and got stuck at. If we can find another entry point then I’m down to go back. Or even I don’t mind hopping the fence and checking it out. But the fences did say that the areas were dangerous to the public, so I just wanna look into a bit more about what that might mean. But I had done a good amount of research ahead of time and it definitely did not look like public property from what I could see on Google. But pretty strange once you get there, there are a whole lot of areas blocked off with barbed wire as far as I can see, even though it doesn’t look like that online. Here's pics. https://imgur.com/a/CJZzPsy I tried to go through to Cappello Rd by car and see how far I could get. Hit the first gate that says no trespassing and its a sensitive work area. Barbed wire for miles. Then went through the main entrance of the wind wolves preserve and on some trails over there and hit the second gate with barbed wire all around. It says no public access for a cattle grazing area. Looked it up online and their website says the preserve has various conservation areas closed off to the public. I only see one other potential trail to it from the SW, but the trail entrance is about 6 miles from the target site and its hard to tell if the trail connects all the way through
So... They attempted to drive close, and it sounded like they didn't actually walk the trail(s). And they definitely didn't inquire with the people running the Preserve, which I'd strongly recommended. I'm not surprised by the fenced off areas: it's a preserve, trying to provided a safe zone for the coyotes/etc.
No, it's not going to be a easy to find spot. But unless someone actually visits it, or finds a better answer, I still believe this is the right spot. And if it's hard to reach all the better, more likely to be untouched/unfound.
2nd podcaster who approached me (the first was interested, but lived on East Coast):
Extremely extremely interesting! Finishing up a script this weekend, but I’ll try and do some investigating next week! Certainly not afraid to chat with the manager on the phone to plan an appropriate trip if it sounds possible. Just to be clear about how you arrived at the window clue for now, though, you’re saying it’s more the recurring imagery of windows rather than any specific moment where we actually see the word onscreen, right? And sort of hinted at by things like references to Rear Window, and then seeing Hitchcock’s grave, and that a window is a type of “Entry”? Also, is there somewhere you can point me to where you’re seeing Wind Wolves say that they’re specifically a coyote preserve? I’ve seen a few coyotes on socials and on the site, but nothing that gives them special attention Gonna call Wind Wolves tomorrow, hope it bodes well!
Me: So yeah, I walked thru many of the window references... it's the one thing that occurs over and over. We start the movie at a window, windows are a major theme, and he absolutely 'enters' thru multiple windows during the movie.
That the words line up to a place near I5 seems like the winner. Do let me know what they say...
Them: Alright, finally got ahold of megan at the conservancy, asked her about the coordinates, and about coyotes and the movie, she said she hasn't heard of anything about a movie director hiding anything out there or anything, but that they do get geocaches from time to time Once i sent her the coordinates she said it wouldn't be unthinkable that a human could reach them if they went on an 8 mile loop hike and briefly went off trail at the spot, and that there's plenty of geocaches already out there, and that I probably wouldn't need any special training or tools (besides an accurate handheld gps device, which I've already got) i've got to spend some time planning the trip since it's gonna be kind of like, a fairly serious hike, but once i finish the other script i'm currently working on i'll probably drive out there, she gave me good directions on how to get to the lot for my car and where to find the beginning of the trail
if i'm honest the thing that would 100% seal this up for me is if i found the word window written somewhere in the movie, because i located the word entries in the movie now on the comic fan's poster tube from inside the cereal box, note the long shot of him twirling it purely for the audience, and have also noticed a small spelling error between the word "schwinn" on the outside of the box and the word "shwinn" printed on the tube, which feels slightly like a clue and i'm somewhat interested since "windows" and "schwinn" share many of the same sounds barns and wells are very clearly there for us to see, and if windows could join them, i think your reasoning is fantastic for why that would be the word also, as for coyotes, there is nothing specifically with a coyote focus on the preserve, but megan assured me that there were TONS around there on the land, so i guess we'll see what there is to see, really really hopin you nailed this, i really enjoy where your head is at on it simultaneously also working some kind of cereal box-based solution but i've had no progress yet will keep u posted if anything comes of anything and once i have a plan for the hike i'll let you
Me: glad you called, I wish the previous interested people had, but they never bothered to reach out that way. Sounds like she confirmed it made sense and that geocaches ARE something that happens. The coyote 'focus' was more that when I went looking at the coordinates, I was like "ok, this is close enough..." and then reading their website/etc, they made clear that despite the name Wolves, it's coyotes on the land.. .and of course the movie HAS a coyote and literally implies "follow the coyote"... so...
As for the lack of the word Window... I'll point that the very opening of the movie has Words on a Window. I think putting the word 'window' would have been too obvious.. the Wells and Barns make sense in context of the filming (and neither was mentioned in the script)... I wonder if the Contact Lens billboard might have said "window" at some point but they removed it? Or someplace else? I think the original password (bicycle, cookie, schwinn, etc) might have been planned as either an alternative answer or as I said a red herring... but if you count the number of windows in the movie, it's quite a few.
I was out in LA on a business trip many years ago 7-8?, and actually stayed at the Standard and went up on that roof where the party happens.
What do you think of my logic re Owl=Sam because of his behavior going immediately to the window in the back, which has both broken bars, and a place for him to step up... that's SO glossed over in the movie... and of course combined with his crawling into Sarah's place through the window there, that's not just once but twice he 'enters' (so entries) thru a window. Even discounting all of the other window sightings... good luck, and glad you'll explore. take lots of video/pictures!
Me: Aug 3 (many months later) ping. did you ever follow up?
Them: after our call she was very excited and we were very gung ho about heading out and doing an investigation. however, few days after you and i spoke, she emailed me back with a different message, here's a quote from it "Ok, I spoke with someone and it does look like this particular area is a little beyond our public accessible areas and is about 2 miles further from our Tule Elk Trail than I originally thought. I believe the hike round-trip would be closer to ~10 miles. I attached the screenshot and also am sending a copy of our trail map below. You'll notice that the trail map doesn't include the area where the coordinates lead, as it is pretty far from the canyon and our normal trails. That being said, I honestly don't think anything would be at that spot and it seems like more than likely it's random coordinates." she also said that she couldn't officially grant me access because it was technically an off limits area and that she had never heard of any official movie studio or production company contacting wild wolves for any reason so unfortunately, i decided to shorten up my "UTSL" to a short segment in a larger episode about fictional mysteries sorry for the less than ideal ending to a fun mystery
So... It's time to let the world in on this, and perhaps someone will finally check this spot, and either rule it out OR confirm it is the 'answer' and what is there....
Please PLEASE DOCUMENT and share with the rest of us, don't vandalize or keep it a secret for yourself. I've shared, it's your turn now.