r/vaynemains

What is the best build with a ton of attack speed? I don’t like playing crit vayne I feel like it’s not optimal.

Hi everybody!

I was planning to buy the new demoncursed vayne but I heard a rumour that the AA-s are clumpsy and its kinda like pay to lose, is that true or its worth buying?

Wishing a good day for everybody who reads this <3

only champion in the game that can carry 4 feeders 1v5 match which is why this is my main

i even play her in jg

my favorite moments are when you lock in vayne jungle and your team starts saying report vayne prelobby only for you to drop a 25 kill match and hard carry and they spam honors

I'm new to playing Vayne overall and was wondering what I should build for her top.

I picked her up today as I got a bit bored with always playing either Yone mid/top and Udyr jungle, my two mains. And am liking her play style so far because it's annoying to play against her.

And was wondering what I should build for her.

I heard that she's good with crit but so far I've only been going into attack damage and attack speed with some movement speed so I was wondering if crit works on her top and what to build for it.

I was about to write an essay about my experience on low emerald, playing a sadomasochistic ammount of vayne mid.

But I'll spare you the details as to not inspire more people to experience the pain.

It is hard, getting shoved is hard, sometimes I even get a surprise kill early by abusing Q sudden impact and and getting a lucky E but even then I know the enemy mid will get some mana sustain and just afk farm and perma shove.

What I'm doing rn is constantly AA minions, which makes it very hard to dodge skills and last hit, but it's very effective against the type of AP that just spam skills and forget they can also auto attack.

So anyway, how do I push faster? Do you think putting a few points on w would help?

Do I focus big cannon guys or Caster minions?

Riot just took away the minion aggro trick on the first wave and it just made things so much harder against good opponents in mid.

I’m learning vayne top but I’m seeing ppl here even react negatively to it. I just want to learn the forbidden dark arts of vayne top.

Anyway I’m struggling to push leads. My kiting is definitely off as I’m often too far away to attack when I want to and too close when I don’t.

And when there are multiple enemies everything looks like a blur of spells and stuff.

I’ll trade my soul for forbidden knowledge. I’ve never played a champ that’s gotten so many salty /all chats from opponents. It’s fantastic. And if my team crashes out cause we have no frontline, even better.

Should I start playing her top or bot? or is there a diffrence other then lane mechanics

I am Vanye top otp (but just started I have 110k points right now) and I have a good build against squishys but what to buy against tanky combs? What is the perfect build for that? I see a lot of Bork, but some say essence reaver into more crit. What is perfect? Thank you guys!

Reflections:

As a long time Vayne main having played her since ~Season 6 and reaching what is now Mastery 70 and 744k mastery points, I've been a long time believer in W max and BORK -> Rageblade core (Feel free to @ me), I've seen a lot of theorycrafting around her and a lot of blind insistence on "Build X", "Max X first", and the like, which frankly does not really benefit anyone wanting to learn about Vayne because it creates dependency rather than testing things on the Rift and finding their angle on approaching Vayne. As elaborate as League of Legends and Vayne herself is, there cannot be one universal META.

I think META would be better considered PETA: Particularly Effective Tactic Available.

I should add that theory doesn't matter on the Rift. Maximum DPS and Power Fantasy builds look great on paper, but no one can DPS or live out a power fantasy with a gray screen. Vayne does not have a Lissandra passive. I'd always point a new Vayne player to scrutinize and find their niche. I could give them my preferences, but they aren't the best universally.

It came to my attention in a help request post on the sub that someone tried to prove I was wrong for suggesting to max W first. This person was convinced maxing Q first was the way to go. Look up any builds website and you indeed will see Q max first as the most common.

It got me to thinking: Let's run the numbers based on practical Vayne gameplay and see if there is a clear winner. I think you'll be surprised. I ask only that you humor my build path used for the calculation.

Analysis:

Since W max vs. Q max is a point of debate/preference among Vayne players, I'll pit W first against Q first, with Level 6 as a benchmark level to test at because of how Final Hour interacts with Vayne.

Vayne's Q bonus damage increases 10% each point up From 75% to 115%. That is going to face damage mitigation from enemy armor, even on a low armor champion. Likewise, the Q CD decreases by 1 second point by point from 6 seconds to 2 seconds. W grants % max health true damage, not mitigated by armor, increasing by 1% point by point from 6% to 10%

Considering Tumble gets 30% CDR and 35 bonus AD during Final Hour at R1, we can break down in detail, based on points in each ability, Q3 W1 vs. Q1 W3 at level 6.

For the purpose of this calculation, I will assume Vayne started with a Doran's Blade, and has completed Vampiric Scepter and Recurve Bow for a Blade of the Ruined King. Not everyone's choice, but a common one. This equates to 1600 gold spent by the time Final Hour is activated. Ambitious, but for a full analysis we need a starting point. This means during Final Hour, Vayne has 10 + 15 + 35 Bonus AD on top of her base AD of 69 for a total of 129. So Q1 bonus damage is 96.75 -> 97 vs. Q3 bonus damage of 122.55 -> 123. Bonus AS is 15% to the base of 0.658 which equates to 0.757. Assuming Vayne is already auto attacking at the beginning of a fight, to fire 3 autos, Vayne needs 3.965 seconds, for 2, she needs 2.643 seconds, and for 1 she needs 1.322 seconds. Auto attack windup time is 17.544%.

Vayne has armor of 41 at Level 6, but since the enemy bot laner is not Vayne, This test will set armor to 40. Given her 957 HP, this test will use 950 base HP. As bot laners generally are ADCs wielding Doran's Blade, which provides 80 HP, the enemy will effectively have 1030 HP. As armor acts as a multiplier determining effective HP, 1030 x 1.4 (1 armor acts as 1% bonus HP to based HP) = 1442 effective HP. Note true damage ignores armor.

Now that constants have been established, this analysis first addresses the time element of Q3 vs. W3.

At Level 6 the CD with Q3 is 4 seconds -> 4 x (1 - 0.3) = 2.8 seconds vs 4.2 seconds with Q1. Based on the original CD and the CDR, the CDR is 50% more efficient on the Q1 and the difference in CD between Q1 and Q3 is 1.4 seconds. We know that the stealth is 1 second, which if used completely, gives Vayne 1.8 seconds to DPS between not counting human reaction time and auto attack windup time.

Given, at the time of engagement, Vayne' first auto functionally proc Silver Bolts effectively in the time of 2 auto attacks plus the 0.232 second windup time for an engage of 2.875 seconds. Pragmatically, this assumes Vayne is standing still taking an objective, but reality presents variables like switching targets or kiting (especially as Vayne).

Suppose we take a realistic case such as kiting. The average human reaction time is 231 to 284 milliseconds. Athletes have 150 to 180 millisecond reaction times, which makes a difference for the pros, but not most Vayne players in solo queue. So if we kite at the low end of the reaction time spectrum and giving Vayne 231 milliseconds to move, 231 to attack move, and 231 to attack move (slower if you aim for the exact target), and then add 232 for the auto attack windup time that is a loss of 694 milliseconds. Given Vayne's natural cadence is 3 autos, that adds 1.388 time loss in proc'ing Silver Bolts. This assumes that, after the 231 milliecond window of acting to move and the 231 milliecond window to issue an attack move command, Vayne only moves for a 231 millieconds before beginning the 232 milliecond windup. There may be a split second more time or spacing needed. But assuming average human reaction time and the windup is included, add 1.388 to the calculated perfect scenario and the resulting time to complete one rotation of the cadence is 4.263 seconds, which is longer than Q1's 4.2 second CD Q with Final Hour active.

Enemies interrupting this cadence would naturally change the timing here.

This, pragmatically speaking, makes the CD difference irrelevant if Final Hour is activated.

Now, we have to consider damage. Because cadence timing effectively negates the CD advantage of Q3 over W3, insofar as what would normally be done in practice over what could possibly be done, we can simplify a damage comparison to R Q auto auto auto W proc. As the regular auto attack damage is constant, it will be ignored. Accordingly, the damage calculations are as follows:

Q3: (1442 - 123 = 1319 -> 1319 / 1442 = 91.470% x 1030 = 942 -> 1030 - 942 = 88 effective Q damage) + (1030 x 6% = 62 true damage) = 150 combined damage.

W3: (1442 -97 = 1345 -> 1345 / 1442 = 93.273% x 1030 = 961 -> 1030 -961 = 69 effective W damage) + (1030 x 8% = 82 true damage) = 151 combined damage.

While W3 wins the damage category against the squishy opponent, and thus would definitely out-damage a tank or bruiser, the damage difference is practically arbitrary.

Effectively, approaching level 6 is a matter of the players win conditions, preferences, and to a degree, itemization. Different Vayne players approach the champion differently, and thus Maxing Q or W is contingent on what they aim to achieve.

For that matter, by the time R3 is achieved at level 16, Q5 and W5 were achieved at level 13.

The numbers can be scrutinized and theorycrafted, but effectively, the best option is the player's preference.

Updates:

Feel free to @ me, but I did write this all myself for my interest in the difference and for anyone who wants to really dive into the details because informed decisions matter.

I acknowledge this analysis focused on cadence, Q3 for trades does provide 19 more damage than W3, which adds up over trades, though regardless of AH, trading occurs generally outside of an activated Final Hour. Even so, since Tumble in this case is used offensively, this opens Vayne up to a 4 second CD that can bite back, especially in the Bot Lane, though top lane matchups may not always carry the same risk. So yes, this use case exists, but Rift reality presents a dilemma. I should not forget Sheen items in the discussion. The Sheen proc will definitely amplify Q auto damage, though a mindful opponent will adjust positioning, either decreasing poke opportunities or amplifying poke risk. Vayne cannot sprint/hop out virtually on demand to mitigate poke risk like Draven or especially Kalista.

I likewise want to acknowledge other various scenarios like Condemn usages, including stuns, or dodging are inevitable in so complex a game as League.

As for the matter of kiting, it is true that correct kiting will minimize the downtime between autos, but the wind up time after moving still exists because a non-auto movement command was input. In essence, Vayne does not have Kalista's hopping mechanic for the purpose of kiting, making her have to kite with downtime. What's more, and what actually hurts DPS in kiting is the human component and the the flow of the game, which can leak DPS.

Essentially, in line with everything I've stated, perfection doesn't exist on the Rift.

There are more examples than the link I provided. Other than the limited options to her other mesh and model, it doesn't feel like it's finished or polished. They are doing less with League, but it feels like one of the most popular champs couldn't get more from her legendary-HER THIRD one! IMO Project is still better, and I don't support Riot in this because the deeper I look, the less effort I see. What do you all think? Agree, disagree?

Heya, I wanna start maining Vayne for a while and was wondering which role you guys prefer her in? I was an adc main way back when I first started playing but switched to jungle for a quite some time now. Also never really touched toplane, is there a lane shes just best at or does it not matter that much?

I'm vayne top player in low masters - i usually go BoRK -> Rageblade -> Hexplate/Terminus but I've seen some players rush hexplate into bursty matchups. Does anybody have a rule of thumb for when they are rushing hexplate vs. sticking to standard core items?