r/voxmachina

So there's a few things about this last season, particularly the finale that leaves me very unsatisfied.

Why was the whispered one in his God form such a Dick in contrast to his character before so? Isnt killing vax completely hypocritical? His entire character up until that point was about having integrity. It even seemed like needing pikes blood voluntarily was a matter of principle over literal.

But then once he is a God, he becomes the most contrived stereotype of a bad guy in the history of writing. And if he just needed to die in any way, why fight back at all? Was the raven thing even going to work? It sounded like it wasn't going to.

The way grog came back to life was way too convenient. He comes back to life before the ritual is even finished, And there is a seemingly no consequences to him dying whatsoever.

Also, if the raven curse that was affecting vax was intended for this scenario the whole time, why did it happen as a result of Vax defying destiny and saving percy? If he hadnt done that, he wouldnt have been cursed.

Unless theres something Im not understanding, this writing feels sloppy. I dont like feeling like the show expects me to not ask these questions.

When the dude impaled the monster tamer do you think they knew it wasn’t vax or did vax sneak away without anyone knowing . Keyleth sold that if it was all a plan

Just finished binge watching the show, and as someone that has played D&D (5e) for years, it is very hard for me to be able to empathize with Pike on multiple levels. Hopefully this will make a multi-faceted topic and not come across just as a "Pike diss/rant".

First and foremost, I don't know CR's homebrew rules and setting, so I am going purely by what I can see in the show, what I can recognize and approximate mechanically where they are (character levels, subclasses, etc). I'll try to go by points, so people (that can get by the text wall) can address what they know/want/like.

1. Clerics don't really work as Pike seems to use her class, as in, even if your God renounces you, RAW allows you to keep your powers even then. Maybe it's a more realistic interpretation of the rules and in this universe you have to be connected to your God to access their powers ( Kashaw didn't get enough screen time to serve as another example to make assumptions from). But if it's the former, then outside interference would be an obvious answer, which should raise alarms to at least a few characters.
2. It still doesn't excuse for me the fact that she always refused to talk with Everlight, even renounced her ("My God doesn't work like your Matron" - what she has said with quite the anger to Vax when he advised her to ask for advice from the Everlight; multiple times Grog asked her if she talked with her Goddess and she refused to do so) and then still blamed the Goddess for her own choices, thoughts and actions. She seemed to ponder the "I don't actually have free will" conundrum, but, at the same time, she also looked like she actively chose not use that free will to connect with either her Pops, either her friends, either her God, but also blame all of them (in her speech in the last episodes). If I were to go on the premise that she's immature and selfish, then it's not much of a point left to make, because if I were to think of the character from that angle, then most of it can make sense. What it still won't make sense is how fast she went for saying "we are his blood", which would be more a brainwashing kind of situation and it just wasn't enough time to do it (reasonably speaking). Nor was she mind controlled, which would also would've explained how she went to attack Grog, despite being the "reason" she was doing it. (which leads me to)
3. Going by their fight with the Briarwoods, Kayleth had used "Sunbeam", which is a 6'th tier spell, which would require her to be at least level 11 (mechanically). Meaning that Pike should've had access to Revivify and Gentle Repose (spells to revive and maintain a dead body to be able to be revived) (also by RAW, clerics know all their class spells, they just need to prepare them on a long rest). Again, might be because of the homebrew world, but Pike didn't seem to know about any such spells until Kashaw showed it to her. Which is questionable to me, since the spell is not a God specific spell, also she was part of her Goddess's cult, meaning there were people that could tell her about those spells. They even manage to do it later and even Kayleth (being a Druid, has access to the Revivify spell) could use it ("helped with the spell"), so they 100% can use it. Now, there's another, more powerful spell that would've helped all of them, given they were at least level 13 (and considering the battles they had, if it was a XP-based campaign, they most probably were) by the time her Pops and Grog dies -> Resurrection. Hell, even sooner there's another spell better than Revivify -> Reincarnate (only Druids can use it). So... you don't really need Gods to revive people left and right when you have all the money, (most probably the levels), and means to do it yourself. Which makes her issues even less logical and harder for me to empathize with her.
4. I personally think they could've done the "That's how cults work and a good Cult leader could and will expose a good person's weakness to twist it into his evil bidding" with another character or take more time with Pike. I feel like I don't know the character enough, as compared with the others, to make a proper judgement. The only logical take I can take is that she was immature, naive and selfish, which, to be honest, the way the show portrayed her through the seasons, seems right. She barely does anything that can't be argued that it was ultimately selfish. Hell, she gambled with her friends souls on a whim in Hell without even asking for their approval and it gets skipped over and ignored 2 minutes later just because she won the gamble. Compared to the other characters, I don't remember if she even had one action that was completely selfless and she had to sacrifice herself or something of hers for someone else (I am internally debating if Scanlan checks this as well) and her "traumatic" event could've been prevented if she went to see her Pops sooner of her own accord and loving, selfless heart.
5. Greater Restoration is also a spell in D&D that could've done a lot of good, from potentially helping Vax with his blight (if it was given through the vestige, which could fit the "cursed item" criteria; but also if a plant could do it, then this spell could've had at least some positive effect as well), to curing her Pops of the "dragon lung", as well as help Grog when he was suffering the aftermaths of using a cursed item. On the latter I can agree that it would've robbed him of his growth moment. Kayleth should also be able to use it, but to her credit, she was never there when the spell would've helped.

All in all, I feel like Pike was the least impactful character in the party, even compared to the new silly addition. I have seen some comments around saying that the character wasn't really active in the first adventures, so it would explain my feeling that she didn't really connect and impact significantly the story and the other characters. But since I only know the animated series, my qualms stem from how she is portrayed there. The way she even became a cleric is questionable to me, as seemingly anything that goes against her whims makes her question her faith. As a character, I didn't manage to see her "anchor", like the other characters had or eventually developed, that would make me be able to say for sure who she is, what she stands for and... what she wants. Ultimately, she had plenty of opportunities (in the show) to make a choice that would've helped her in that regard but either she wasn't given the chance to take it or just actively chose to wallow in her own self-pity and, hence, for me, doesn't have too much of a redeeming quality. Everything I thought that would check that mark was "thrown" away by her speech in the last episodes as something she loathed, was displeased for or asked for more in return of doing it.
I am curious how season 5 will try to redeem her, because from my point of view, she either has a lot of growth to do (which would require time and trials) to accept that, or force her "redemption" and skip over her mistakes and selfishness (like it was glossed over when she gambled with her friends souls).

I am a bit torn about Vax's choice to not submit in the end. I am pretty sure he should've known that he'll die if he refuses and his entire party already folded for him to live.
What is the true reason for him taking that choice?
Considering he refused to be with Keyleth at first because he considered she may suffer too much after his death if they were to be together and seeing how easily she folded for him, makes it a bit hard for me to understand his choice. I am not saying it is out of character for him to do it, I believe quite the contrary (that is in his character to spit in front of a God that asks him to kneel for him). It's just that in perspective, if it wasn't a message of "Don't bend the knee, not even for me, continue fighting", then his choice doesn't make all that much sense to me. Would've been smarter to "submit" and then fight in the shadows anyway, but he's not Percy, so I can accept that he didn't go that route. Maybe, for me, it's just a situation of "I get it but I can't accept it".

>!I have a feeling he'll come back in the next season, maybe for the final fight, as none of the cast has actually perma-died so far, so I believe there are high chances it will happen. Hopefully he'll manage to stick around after and not be a temporary apparition or "one time summon" type of situation, but that's just my wishful thinking as I like his character. The Matron of Ravens has intervened in reversing death already in the show, so she definitely has the power to do it. Granted, I don't know the costs and limits.!<

 

Hey yall I’m re-watching the show and found myself wondering if the gang had been taken out by the dragons at the beginning of season 2 would the chroma conclave been able to stop the whispered one?

Do you think at any point vax regretted his decision with the matron? As someone who hasn’t finished the campaign yet I always wondered if there was ever any doubt or regret

The Whispered One: Master Manipulator and expert liar with a tongue more silver than Starscream
Fans: Man, he could trick anyone!
The Whispered One: Masterful manipulates an emotionally unstable Pike with expertly placed lies from a tongue more silver than Starscream
Also the Fans:

https://preview.redd.it/erbxs2rmf2eh1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=0feec0d363dabad177ab074732273e3050687eed