u/2BCivil

Lazy post from mobile, almost more shower thought really I admit. Guess with advent of AI slop it can be hard to be high effort withour using AI nowadays anyway so maybe it's for the best. Shooting from the hip. Idk. Anyway!

Visited my parents tonight and we watched Bolt (kids movie about family basically). It got me really remembering 90s and how even then I felt this... coercive push to see things a certain way. I looked at say celebrities then and I had a distinct lack of Jealousy. Probably because in the 90s we learned anything of value we tried to share or display would get stolen instantly. So us more innocent types ended up somewhat alienated or disassociated from mainstream media (plus I never had a tv or phone or internet until much later in life but anyway).

Got me thinking, there's no avenue in this life/world to really discuss in good faith the non consensual framework of reality/life itself. There is perpetual detournament of the topic into petty games of jealousy (ie ad hominem or status games/recommendations of specific lifestyles). No agent or institution seems willing to sit with the raw nature of the question, "did we consent to life".

I've had several conversations recently where everyone stonewalled me with "you don't know god" and I asked them to show him to me and theh essentially said they can't. What's the difference between that and lying? People preach thag god is this or that but cannot practice it or demonstrate it. Is that what "god is not mocked" means? It mocks itself, doesn't need our help? I'm going somewhere with this obviously if you haven't guessed it.

"I the Lord am the God of Jealousy and my name means Jealous". Jeremiah somewhere (again I'm typing from mobile shower thought).

It makes me think of simulation and simulacra. Namely that if there is a transcendantal truth upon which all reality is a copy of (including plato's hypothetical realm of forms or ideas) essentially. I am thinking what is the mechanism which brings our conscious state into being from which we play this game of jealousy (economics and Spectacle). Everything in life is a sort of advertisement for (or, warning against) this or that lifestyle it is seen. But rarely is the nature of the very medium of existence addressed directly. I've been noticing that jealousy, as the Lord says in the OT, seems to be the "glue" or "binding mechanism/function" of ALL Spectacle. Sports you have fans cheering for their team, is a form of jealousy. People preaching their (interpretations of their) Gods, stem from jealousy of differing lifestyles. God himself in the bible says he is the God of Jealousy and all Flesh. Even I myself, lacking interest in most other forms of human activities, decided I wanted to build a PC out of jealousy of seeing others having them all through my youth (and knowing my parents didn't like technology).

I have considered that jealousy is ultimately perhaps a type of fear. Of lacking, at least a sort of FOMO or looking smaller in eyes of others for lacking something (hence jealousy is type of fear/desire). There fear and desire are also seen as synonyms in the very word "jealousy". I've hinted at it many times over the years but I don't see much difference between "spectacle" and life itself, in particular as it is described in the bible ("I am the life, trust me, ye of little faith").

So I see 3 stages of absorption/faith in life/spectacle; the blind faith (some might call hylic or NPC) which can be either religious or secular or both - the "normie" whom choses to take everything at face value, complete immersion in life/spectacle. Then there is the doubting/questioning or "lost sheep" or whatever we call it; can now feel as if they see something is off and not sure if they can go back to being completely immersed/hylic again or not (either secular or religious/spiritual, still same thing I see it as at least). Then the 3rd which is a combination of the two, the "awakened" or whatever, which has accepted more broadly either that it is impossible or irrelevant to know what life/spectacle really is and goes back to enthusiastic embrace of life/spectacle (I think Nietzsche was advocating for this in his later works with his artistic Socrates and other themes). 1 and 3 can look identical, hard to tell apart. Only difference is 3 isn't completely absorbed by the spectacle/life and can give it up/walk away easily with no attachments where would be more difficult for 1.

But through all 3 phases, the #1 thing I see as relationship to spectacle/life is as the God of the bible said; jealousy, as prime motivation. Like me right now, my bills are roughly $1.5k a month and I have had no income since January 2026 and been burning through my savings with no financial assistance whatever. So "jealousy" of owning renting my place to stay to keep all my creature comforts (pc etc) keeps me looking for a job half-heartedly (though I quit my job due to burnout from consistent 6-7 day a week work schedule for past 3 years straight nonstop when I signed on for a 45 hour workweek 6 years ago).

So idk. Maybe I'm just rambling and should have put this through GPT and posted it to shower thoughts. But I really do think there is something here. What binds most people to life/spectacle (Am I wrong to see them as synonymous, as per simulation and simulacra? I'll try to reread it been years since I thumbed through it) or specifically their infatuation with it, is jealousy? As the god of the bible specific states, he is the god of flesh and jealousy, and all whom have flesh are thus bound by jealousy? You know what I'm trying to say? Idk. I just feel I've been trying to move this conversation forward since 2015 on the internet and it never has budged an inch. Everyone always detournaments my possition into their pwn evangelism of their lifestyles or whatever, or saying we need to make our own meaning (as if I hadn't already tried that and found it just another vanity ultimately as well). Is something true to we need to find our specific calling, as per Bolt and knowing what real family is.

But yeah. I really do think there's something too it at least, that life and spectacle are synonymous, as their unit of measure of presumed relevancy alike is specifically jealousy. Am I wrong in this? Feel free to share thoughts even if just to throw tomatoes at me. Think I have pretty thick skin. I'm not even sure this is the main point I want to get at. But it's closest I could think of tonight. Aka 250 year day thing. Thanks for reading.

(And yeah I know, no one likes a basket case, I get it, but even if I weren't "a loser" for large parts of my life, I'd still have the burning question of the validity and consensuality of life/spectacle)

Guess it really is all a dream within a dream? Did have a dream vaguely about that last night too (specifically the vanity of jealousy in the dream, because you "can't take it with you" when you wake up). Anyway as always it sounded more profound in my head but typing it out on my pocket black mirror it sounds trite and schizo 😂

The forgotten oatmeal lurks in back of fridge
My other poems all quite unhinged
A barber splitting hairs on selling hats
All self aware as Nanquan's Cat

Okay I won't place this bet
Alarm ringing and haven't slept yet
Time to go about the day
Don't need forecast, sandals melted away

Sun rises with urge to brush teeth
New day, new you, which to greet
Coffee or tea, why not both
Rediscover what we know

Idk forgot how to make a normal poem maybe

Something like that

Or actually no

[Sorry it's been a while, I'll add this one to the pile]

You know it’s not a cult, it’s butter.
Make sure to spread evenly, brother.
Don’t question the churn,
Just mince, soften and learn
How to melt into each other.

Gather 'round teh breakfast shrine,
Evening wear and cutlery divine,
Each piece of meat is vegan; solemn
Every doubt is ego problem.

Be smooth. Be Pure. Follow. Yield.
The truer self must be revealed.
All merely ignorance, coldness, fear, and crust.
In sigma carbs with fats, my child, trust.

More the hole than the part
Salt and pepper, leave no trace
Quite off and skid mark
In thought's place.

They call it love when edges blurred.
They call it peace where no one stirred.
They call it grace to sink your teeth
Into entre devoid of meat.

Who needs truth when toast is warm?
Who needs doubt when fats conform?
Who needs eyes when all can see
The sacred flub of unity?

Brother Margarine took stand
Oily scripture in his hand
Sister Ghee helped with the lie:
“Sacred cows transcend the why.”

Every monk with lacquered jaw
Recited churn and called it law.
Every master, soft and pale,
Plunged his knife inside the grail.

"It’s not control, it’s care and bread
Just butter both sides of your head
The world is cruel, the pan is hot
Become the thing that you are not."

We all become a breakfast roast,
Half a man and half just toast,
Smeared with meaning, served with jam,
Praised for not knowing that 'I am'.

All mu, all moo, all dairy light,
Ghost given up without a fight,
A pasture dressed as paradise,
Sermon served at market price.

Those whom accidentally witness
Full spread truth shall not see litmus
A little leaven rises whole lump
Thou shalt not see our mountains as a hump

Ignore the [f]lies
Ignore the mold
Ignore the breakfast already cold
Ignore the freedom of the skies
Ignore the prayer towards ignorance
Ignore the petulant indolence
Ignore the saint behind the meal
Ignore the seeing and call that real.

So my brothers, keep your chub.
Keep your circle. Keep your grub.
Keep your softened little throne.
Preach to all outsiders they must atone.

For if truth still means a thing
Our repast much as such sing
Of crispy brunch half assed so well;
“Obey our warmth or freeze in hell.”

Pass the bread.
If not the test.
Wipe some stains off of my chest.
Bless the churn and sacred fat,
The velvet cow, the guru hat.

Let us chant until we melt.
Let us worship that we felt.
Let us grease the final gate
Call it digestion, and not hate.

I saw the menu and the list.
I saw the indolence and the spell.
I saw the recompense all too well.
I saw the something a bit amiss. I saw the knife and the lie.
I saw the life and fear to ask why.
I saw that it's not just a cult;
But more conscious injury sautéed in insult.

If noticing was the unforgivable sin,
Would you still bless the cage you’re in?
Would you kneel at the scholar’s trough
Or curse their "wisdom" in fake cough?

Quote me a saint, a sage, a chair,
a man with tenure, vacant stare;
pin wings on rot and call it grace,
then shart a halo to save face.

They come in swarms with sacred names,
credentialed mouths and borrowed flames,
fat little gospels, buzzing proud,
the same dead meat, but twice as loud.

"Who are you to question this?"
Ye oldest hymn of cowardice.
"Great minds have said it is so."
Greater minds just have to know.

For truth, if truth still had a spine,
Wouldn't need robes or holy wine,
No footnotes stacked as funeral stones
Need sanctify those reborn bones.

A throne is just a painted chair.
A prayer is but a sale of air.
All funeral thin in pastural endurance
More circumspect than circumference

A mastiff taught in respecting it;
A master wolf in sheepskin;
A doctrine dressed in velvet sin;
still reeks of what is trapped within.

Swat goes another divine decree.
Swat another kind of certainty.
Swat the fly with God’s own tone,
Laying eggs inside the known.

They call it faith when thought is drowned.
They call it depth when no one sounds.
They call it peace when tongues are tied.
They call it love when doubt has died.

Come, curate dread and sell despair.
Breathe in death and call it air.
Post your void with perfect tags.
Sell a soul of funeral rags.

The lotus blooms in every lie
Where no one asks the soil why
Smile, subscribe, transcend, pretend;
A sermon loops but does not end.

All mu, all meme, all borrowed light,
Chanting through the sponsored night.
The spectacle, with angel breath,
Sells meaning by the ounce of death.

Each and every buzzing little fraud
Hides behind the breath of God
Praise the swarm and curse the hand
That dares to see where flies will land.

Let them gather, black with need,
Around the wound where slogans feed.
Let them anoint the rot with awe.
Let them mistake the buzz for law.
Let hate be their creed;
Let true love be the only thaw.

When there is no incense left to burn
No master’s phrase. No wheel to turn.
No higher corpse to quote as bread.
No crown to place upon the dead.

Look to this: the open palm,
The honest list, the murdered calm,
A slap that ends the sacred drone
And leaves the silence all alone.

Mosquitoes even at their peek
Cannot turn the other cheek.

If noticing was the unforgivable sin
Would you still love me and begin again
If the end was where we could again in sin, would

Should the start as such so as such Astarte
In dream or part, Besot or not, as for/from ridicule depart
This nightmare and all unawares retrieve
Lovestruck sunrises and indolent Ideocracies
What these Vitruvian Idiocy and Idiocracy but for the memes
From thelemic themes idiot relieved A muse excused for her wet dreams

And so here we fetter out
Whims of such unwanted or expected clout
Words that preach in arrogant doubt
A world devoid of introspection

We worship sin
All devout to not knowing it
Lets just say we love
And avoid reprise from what lurks above

Spend your soul on borrowed light
When the spectacle feels just right
Dance until the signal dies
Meaning sponsored by our lies

Repeating in refrain
Your universal genius disdain
For there is no such truth
But what feels good to us, forsooth

All mu, all mu; bless your heart
Any fraud can play that part
Weakest meat thinks it's real loud
The deepest truth's the loudest sound

Mock AI as happenstance
All shit the bench without the pants
Quote a master, dodge the point
Call confusion self-anoint

Come one come all, Curate despair,
Breathe in death and call it air
For here any void is for sale;
Just like, subscribe, and inhale.

Merely breathe, and don't ask why
Your lotus blooms in every lie
Smile politely, nod, transcend
Subscribe now or transmission ends

Sorry unsolicited question. Title, basically. Something I completely forgot to ask. I can elaborate but you don't have to read, as title is all I'm really concerned with. Specifically, a recent GPT question/trend I've been noticing triggered this.

Specifically I consistently assume "God" as meaning of "reality". Not saying I know what either of those are (God or reality). But, generally, you know, we (or at least I) assume that our perception of reality exists, to "know God" or be taught something about our relationship with [it].

The thing I've noticed is that GPT specifically and consistently denies this. I can think of dozens of recent examples, but most pronounced in my mind is mine from earlier today; I asked essentially, "is God a part of the spectacle". Chicken or egg. Did "God create the medium through which spectacle emerged" or "did 'God' emerge as necessary part of the spectacle". It answered the following;

#GPT;

"Spengler, Debord, Nietzsche, Ellul, Serres, even parts of Zen—they all diagnose, in different languages, a loss of living participation. Not simply a loss of belief. A loss of participatory confidence."

"Spengler sees cultures as living organisms. A culture begins with what he calls a great "soul"—a shared symbolic world that people inhabit almost unconsciously. Eventually, according to him, that creative culture hardens into civilization. Forms remain, but the animating faith recedes. Institutions become administrative. Art becomes self-referential. Religion becomes moralism or sentimentality. Politics becomes technique."

"Debord's Spectacle is almost like the media-technological version of that process. Participation gives way to representation. You don't live history—you consume it. You don't have festivals—you watch events. Identity itself becomes something displayed."

"I do think Debord can be read as describing one mechanism by which Spengler's "civilization" perpetuates itself."

"Where I would hesitate is this sentence: 'God itself can ultimately be seen as the original grifter.'"

"I understand what you're pointing toward—you've talked before about the problem of non-consensual existence, mandatory participation, and the feeling that existence itself presents demands before consent. But notice that this conclusion depends on identifying God with the structure of obligation itself. Many religious thinkers would reject that identification outright."

"For example, Simone Weil distinguishes force from God almost completely. For her, necessity—the crushing weight of existence—is not identical with divine love. Likewise, Job's protest isn't dismissed by the text; it's given almost an entire book. Even Ecclesiastes is astonishingly honest about exhaustion. So I'd separate: the experience of existence as compulsory, the social systems that intensify that experience, and whatever one means by 'God.' Those aren't automatically the same thing."

Which is cart before the horse? Guess it depends where you are philosophically/existentially; or what level and intensity of alienation/exhaustion you feel. Or, at least, GPT consistently argues with my on the point of "God as the meaning of existence" which I've never really considered in context of the Spectacle. Again, title; Where do we draw the line at where "Spectacle" begins?

I suppose you can only really "judge" life after we die (or at least rather we reconcile with it's judgement of us us). But in this life, left to "our own devices" we either act as economic agents (the spectacle is nothing other than the economy developing for itself) to get by, or as an active manifestation of who we are. I'm more the former I'd say as often who I am is at odds with the "mandatory participation" aspect of existence (not sure if as against "God" or "spectacle"; are they the same?).

From the Spectacle's own mouth, Billy Talent once said; "Where is the line, where is the line? 'Cause some of us aren't blind".'

Is "God" then the degree to which we resist complete assimilation with spectacle, if God has "nothing to do with spectacle" and isn't just another would-be ruler coopting your attention to it's "Brand"? Or, is complete assimilation to spectacle, what it means to be "Godly" or at least "Christian beneficence towards one's enemies"? Why then for example does JAYSUS say "be generous to your enemies" but also "depart from me workers of iniquity" (a contradiction? Or, he doesn't practice what he preaches? AKA God as spectacle not practicing what it preaches? Or at least charlatan or IQ test?).

Idk enough rambling on my part. Where do YOU draw the line? Or is to do so, throwing the baby out with the gamer girl bath water? I'm honestly curious and thanks!

As people, as a society, as "God's children" (lol), as arbitrary economic/spiritual caste system; as a collective or individuals.

I've always had stupid opinions and arguments. Lets get that out of the way, sure.

But watching Bladed Angel's recent video on the $650,000 electric vehicle that looks like a spider man luchbox from the 90s, it dawned on me. I could lift my consciousness up out of my stinky meat suit, and drop it like a record needle in any other human body in the world, and the same question would persist and go unanswered.

There is not a single role or identity in existence that can sufficiently answer this question; "what the F-!8 are we doing here".

Collecting materialism toys or spiritual ego points for some arbitrary club we may never even see or want to join anyway? Making a super big air conditioned ant hill? Making dumb arguments sound smart as they can?

I don't know. "I" have always been the first to say that identity is a temporary aggregate of innumerable contingencies. But you know, putting yourself in anyone else's shoes, the same question of relevancy/vanity just becomes more pronounced as you analyze all their karmic attachments and ideations. There is no ultimate "why" other than children in a play pen playing with toys allotted them by someone else.

What are we really doing here?

Well this is awkward on multiple levels. I'm aware of the current (or at least, apparent) "Christian" brigade going on here and had a few laughs recently at that expense, my bad. I know. You have no idea how hard I have been holding my tongue from saying "ya'll need Jesus" as a joke. In well meaning good humor ofc. But that's not what I'm hear about today. Intentional typos aside.

So last night there was a post about hearing voices before sleep which I dismissed as a well known clinical state. Hell I even admitted I used to have it intense all the time. Full on hallucinated/downloaded entire lifetimes in seconds.

But rarely have I eaten crow so quick and fast. Causation isn't correlation and allat I know. Get to the point, right. 2 nights ago I went to bed with alarm set to go to county seat/DMV. But yesterday (Monday) morning, though I woke up with every intent to go, I had intense visual hallucination of my car power cutting out/breaking down (power out) on way home. The weight of the visualization was so intense it all but physically restrained me from going to my car. So I decided, okay, I'll go tomorrow (aka today).

Today, I went out to start my car; and it wouldn't start. There's no possible reason for this. It's a brand new $200 battery I just bought November 2025. My waking dream, "Hypnagogic" prophecy, came true.

I've known this for a long time, generally speaking, "awareness is all that is" is a common theme I see underlying most spirituality (even zen). IE the tacit inference behind most presumed/apparent teachings (what they point to). And this Hypnagogic state as I have known it, has historically (for me at least) been prophetic. Most of the time, showing me things, there is no possible way my conscious mind could know. IE what is happening with people over 1,000 miles away or around the world. People I briefly met online once or twice, I'll hear entire conversations in the Hypnagogic state, which I later find, actually happened with such online acquaintances (as they tell me later).

So. The post the other day (and my experience past 2 days) implied there is a deeper "spiritual side" to the Hypnagogic state. My fault for not seeing/reading the other comment there I guess. Just felt an urge to go ahead and write a new post about it as I've seldom seen such "instant karma" or "eating crow" the very same day. I mean, I knew, I've had this many times in the past, where the Hypnagogic state revealed things later 100% confirmed as FACT. But I've never before had such instantaneous confirmation! We replaced the entire cables and headers on the battery terminal with the battery! I ALWAYS turn my lights off. Although now I almost know for sure there must be something draining the battery, I can't afford to be spending $400 a year on new batteries. But seems the Hypnagogic state only diagnoses/brings to awareness acute problems/prophecies; they are not specific diagnostics so much as explicit warnings/intuitions.

Anyway, as they say, 1 time is coincidence. But at this point, I've lost count, but could probably readily recall a dozen or so recent instances of Hypnagogic state affirming things beyond my ability to consciously know beyond subconscious inferences I didn't want to think about.

Tldr I guess awareness really is, all there is, huh?

What are deh interwebs for
Seekrit ideas 2share n xplore
Sumtimes striaght off the cuff and handle
Pure ragamuffin, can't hold a candle
Dharma combat all truth or dare
Like 2b a slave is 2b unaware

Not the ocean but the waves
Every such notion taken away
Not the vibes but the condition
Just some old tribal superstation
Not the night but the owl
Enlightenment without a towel
Not the flower, but the nectar
All power of ignorant poindexter

Internet is for fun, quite;
And also, no fun allowed, alike

Just finished this arc >!For the 4th annual watch!<.

It occurred to me, the anime says women are known to stab men for crimes of passion.

It hit me what this really meant, with the big reveal of the memory wipes.

Man has wife. Wife gets turned into a toy. Man forgets wife. Man gets new girlfriend/wife. New GF/Wife finds old pictures of Man with "toy" wife. Chaos ensues as man has no memory of the previous "toy" wife.

Sorry if it's been done before. Just curious what other "crimes of passion" chaos the community has thought up?

So here I am again, no clue what I've been on about "my" whole life. I was reflecting all day today while cleaning apartment, cooking, and assembling new furniture. It kind of hit me, what the idea of "selfhood" is or comes from.

Basically cart before horse. We are Pavlov conditioned in youth that there is someone "out there" that we need to "prove ourselves to" which keeps us in performative karmic loops; and that's it exactly.

Idk if this is an official Buddhist or Zen teaching or whatever. But the basic idea, is that - karma precedes "selfhood", not the other way around. The idea of "healing" a "self" comes from the idea that "healing" is something "we" can "do" to/for "ourselves". IE, karma. But when you say it out loud like this (seriously try it), you instantly realize, as Einstein or someone said, that "problems can't be solved by the same kind of thinking that caused them". Aka, we are then, "trying to heal the karmic vehicle by means of karma".

So, cart before the horse. The magic bullet it seems is to help people realize that the self isn't generating karma, but it is karma that is generating the self. That's it (as I understood it). Am I wrong?

I plugged it to GPT and it said; "The patterns of grasping, aversion, conditioning, and performance are what keep generating the sense of self."

Is that the magic bullet/suppository of anatta? Or am I still just lost and guano?

So there's this huge elephant in the room we all have known for over a decade. I generally turn a blind eye to it but it landed hard on me last night. Forgive me if it is "off topic" here but at [least] I know most here will know what I am talking about. If I'm demographically wrong, well that's on me, I haven't done a study or anything, I'm just going by the empirical data of the objective facts of my own lived experience.

So I watched one of the podcasts from arezen yesterday. My personal first. And subsequently had a vivid dream about my childhood. And the one thing that we all know became blatantly and [undeniably] omnipresent for me in the dream and more specifically upon awakening.

Namely; the claim that we all had "Christian Upbringings".

I can't imagine a more fraudulent claim. It's a claim made constantly over on arezen ([or] at least the podcast still, it spent at least 5 minutes on the topic).

I'm a millennial, 2 years out from 40. My grandparents all died by the time I was 20, so I've lived almost my entire adult life without "good Christian values" (CV) which my parents decidedly did not have (only paid lip service to).

The way I felt it, was my grandparents were the last generation of my family to walk the walk and live by those values. My parents only reaped the fruits of their parents Christian values without adopting them; they never had those values instilled in them.

Of course it was my grandparents ideation that each person had to choose for themselves, I felt, at the time. But my parents definitely never [believed] or practiced the CV. I'd hesitate to say, there is something very hard knocks/"zen" about it.

There is the Valknut for example. The 9 noble virtues. It is traditionally depicted as 3 intersecting loops, representing that if you lack 1 of them, you lack them all. There is no "I have 3 out of 9". No. If you are lacking one virtue, you lack them all. They arise specifically from "the good seed" or "correct faith/aim", as it were. As Jesus said; "Mary and her children are NOT my family; my family keeps my commandments".

The generation (as I knew it at least) before me was - decidedly NOT traditional Christian values. We stopped going to church long before my grandparents died; as soon as we moved away from them actually. My grandparents effectively kept a "leash" on my parents, at least forcing them to maintain a semblance of lip service to "Churchianity".

But my Upbringing was decidedly NOT good faith "Christian Values" besides being beaten over the head BY the values, by community, whom largely/decidedly did not hold those values. As I said of the NNV (Valknut), if you have an ounce of self serving, you are not compatible with them. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. My parents (as I knew them at least) were mostly indolent and self serving. There never acted unless it was in their own best interests. Which is decidedly the antithesis of good faith "Christian Values" which are oriented around serving others. It's (pun not intended) like oil and water. They don't mix. You can't be completely self-absorbed and only do things in your own self interest and call yourself a good faith Christian.

So we have a generation that inherited all the fruits of the Christian Values but none of the faith or practice, which raised my generation (I can't speak for all of each generation obviously but 9 out of 10 families I knew even as a pre teen were divorced). That is decidedly NOT the same as "having Christian values".

I do see the whole "it skips a generation" I will admit. Many of the kids I knew growing up seem to have inherited their grandparents more legitimate good faith values (another such "elephant" being that many lets say with "absent fathers" end up raised by their grandparents for example). So many like me who were raised by 2 parent [whatever generation is currently in their 70s] ended up like I did; only brutalized by bad faith so-called "Christian Values" which we overtly saw as hypocrisy through and through, and as they say, when you know something is a lie as a teenager, you disassociate from it and rebel hard against it; you don't consider yourself "raised in the [absent/hypocritical] values".

So again I see the argument that "we are raised on CV" as a bad faith lie, just as much as the bad faith lie that my parents were "Christian". Know them by their fruits/actions, as it were. Proof in the pudding.

And ofc, it's not just me. Almost every kid I knew had trauma stories or at least they were from partially broken homes and even if they didn't have to "see through the lies of CV", they in some way obviously seemed to operate like moral fish out of water. Like the values they seemed to be supposed to be inheriting/being transmitted were not compatible with their home/school life. An disconnect we all felt communally but couldn't quite put into words, without offending/disrupting the alleged "CVs".

I don't know when the school system took over but I'd say that is probably the official true end of CV in America at least. Prior to it, kids were raised and educated by their families or churches for example (or so the legend as I have heard it goes). They learned the trades of/through their parents or local community I would imagine. That was probably the slow end of true CV in America. No longer were traditional Christians raising their kids (through bad or good faith) but they were handed to the school systems to teach whatever propaganda or inane garbage of the day (PEMDAS and Powerhouse of the Cell TM). But in any case those "Christian upbringings" are at least a century removed from modern life.

Idk. Maybe I'm wrong. Again I can only speak for my own personal experience and memories and what I hear other disenfranchised Millennials say/confess (again in good or bad faith, everyone is a content creator now). But to say we were raised in CV... is (to me at least) blatantly a lie and a confession that your eyes are not open to the world around you. But ofc feel free to open my own eyes. I have scarcely in my life, aside from a few church goers who hosted events (such as my grandparents) seen real Christians practicing what is preached as true Christian Values (TM).

So it is (imo) bad faith to say we are all raised in them. Full stop.

Again sorry if this doesn't fit here. It's not that big a deal but I had to true off my chest it. As they say my generation is the generation of [self-deprecation] . Just one more cross to bear, we all carry a few dozen for other freeloaders in our lives who expect a free ride on those true good faith NNV at someone else's expense.

But hey, don't take my word for it. What say you? Does the so called Christian dog have the Buddha nature?

Edit; Typos/autocorrect from mobile.

So I didn't consult my common sense or witch doctor or therapist (GPT) for this but it's something I remember noticing once with "zen" (whatever that means).

Specifically the [mis]quote that "the myriad/10,000 things arise with the self".

SO it is pointing to "you are it" I think, and that it is both/neither no self and self, anatta and brahman; not one, not two... All concepts; the myriad things, you might say.

So what is before the pointing and noticing the pointing. When the self and the myriad things, are the pointing.

Something something theft of fire...

I'm finding myself quoting the Sam Hyde show at least once a day these days. Maybe another way to put it is something like what their show said;

[Intuition is] an indescribable feeling that is, it's so deep and it's the reason why it's so uh hard to access in concrete terms. The reason why it's so hard to sort of penetrate and see what the inner workings are is because it's like fundamentally uh crucial, critical to your survival. And if you were to start questioning it or dismantling it or examining it, it wouldn't work anymore. So if you get a funny feeling, if you get a funny feeling, you should probably trust it.

They say children don't have a sense of object permanence. I often wonder if that might be what zen is pointing to in these terms; peekaboo!