u/Borbbb

Pleasant x Unpleasant.

These are difficult to deal with me.

Not in a sense of them causing suffering, nor it is things i really " desire " - the issue is that if it´s pleasant, i follow it. If it is unpleasant, i go away from it.

That itself is not very convenient as it´s being like that of a slave.

If desire is present for something pleasant, i can certainly say No to it, but the desire will remain, and that is unpleasant and inconvenient, as it impairs ability to think as arising thoughts will be more about the desire. Not a fan of that.

While saying Yes to desire offers some pleasure and makes the desire disappear until it rises again, it however makes one a slave to do it´s bidding, and the " pleasure " is often quite limited, and it also isn´t very " real " as lot of pleasure comes from removal of desire, and lot of pleasure is also enhanced by the desire itself.

Without desire, the object of desire on is own is nothing special.

But even knowing this, i still tend to follow desire.

Is it because of habits? Some ingrained way i have been living my whole life, almost subconsciously following that what is pleasant, and avoiding unpleasant, even on the mental level?

Should i slowly try to go against it, until the habits are overwritten?

However, i do not want to just develop good habits, i would rather not be slave to pleasant x unpleasant at all.

Anagami should be free of sensual desire, and i am rather curious how gets there.

For me, it is not that i desire this and that. For me, it boils down on the most fundamental level - of pain and pleasure. The more complex something is, the easier it is for me to break it. But pain and pleasure seems to be as basic as they can be.

What seems like a logical course of action is to be more mindful of pleasant x unpleasant and catch myself to not do that, to reduce the power of habit, and over time it should bear the fruits?

That also sounds like it might be rather difficult, as one would essentially remove lot of " pleasure " and add more " unpleasant ". Without one going for jhanas for some " free pleasure", it does sounds difficult.

Any suggestions, recommendations, tips ,suttas, to deal with it?

It would certainly be more convenient dealing with those once for all. Rather difficult it seems though.

Not likely something useful to ponder, but somewhat interesting.

Often i see people struggling with self hate, and of course self hate is just something full of downsides and it is difficult for people to deal with.

Then you also have self love, and you see people often preaching it as well.

To me, i have no proper point of reference regarding this. I can´t say it´s "just" a result of practice, for even as a child, i never thought along such lines at all.

Thus i wonder how does self love/hate comes to be. It seems that how we think about ourselves, reality and such, is a big part of why that occurs. Self hate seems to be especially prominent in cultures with strong christianity - maybe guilt/shame/blame has some part in it? Who knows.

Anyway, as for myself, i have no hate nor love towards " myself ", as it just does not make any sense to me.

Some might think that it is almost a must have, to have Self Love, but not necessarily. Just like with some brahmaviharas and there being poisons and their antidotes, in similar way, Self Love just seems like antitode to Self Hate.

If there is no poison, there is no need for antidote. It also seems that there can be some issues with even Self Love, for it certainly does not help with anatta(non-self).

How is your experience? Is there many people who can hardly imagine self hate/self love?

+++rather pointless thing regarding my experience, no need to read this paragraph: One thing i recall why it might be missing for me, is due to being very strongly oriented towards logic and rationality, ever since being a child. Funny example i remember is when i was a child around like 9, i went with other kids to a forest, and i saw they started roleplaying as soldiers using imaginary guns. I was like " Why are they doing this? " and couldn´t participate even if i wanted to. This likely extends to how i think about things, which might be Why, to a degree at least.

Just curious, as i recently got it and thought to play it, but it´s not there anymore.