u/Cautious_Complex_749

I know this is like beating a dead horse atp (considering it's a staple to see multiple posts hating on Tengen), and I don't want to seem like I'm just doing it because everyone else is doing it, but literally every Hashira has better feats, both in mark form and in base, besides probably Muichiro.

Sanemi

He outperforms Marked Muichiro vs Kokushibo. I have seen some people say this isn't necessarily the case, as Kokushibo wanted him to become a demon, so he went all out against Muichiro then held back again vs Sanemi, also citing the Muichiro 1v2 in the anime. Either this, or saying that he was performing better via experience. But even if we assume either is true, Sanemi is still superior to Tengen just in base, considering he's said to be evenly matched with Giyu, which I don't exactly agree with feats-wise, as Sanemi did showcase better feats imo, but it is stated in a databook.

Considering Giyu is relative to Marked Tanjiro, who is superior to Tengen (as in the anime they seem evenly matched, but even if Tengen is superior there, Tanjiro grows faster vs Muichiro, then grows more with Obanai, then Tanjiro gets a perma mark), Sanemi should still scale above him.

Also, he's still somewhat relative to Gyomei at the very least (who in base is superior to Marked Muichiro, as Kokushibo says he hasn't seen a swordsman like him in 300 years) in speed, considering when both are marked they can cooperate without Sanemi slowing him down. Meaning in base they have similar enough speed that he wouldn't be slowing him down ,and since base gyomei>marked muichiro, Base Sanemi shoukd be atleast relative to him and can dodge Gyokko and by extension Gyutaro the sawm way he did,so no matter how you cut it, Sanemi is superior to Tengen.

Also, Tengen dodging Tanjiro and Sanemi not dodging doesn't mean anything considering we know Sanemi isn't focused on him, which is stated. Not only that, but he also moves so fast Tanjiro can't react right after. this is also pre hashira training.

Also later on, a much faster Tanjiro (Tanjiro in the Hashira meeting should be around Lower Moon level at most, while Tanjiro in the Hashira Training can react to Tengen, the clones, Gyutaro, or people on that Upper 6 level) almost got outpaced by Sanemi.

Not only that, Sanemi was said to be very fast by Tanjiro vs Giyu, and this is MARKED Tanjiro, meaning he should be past Tengen/Gyutaro level at this point, but he still considers Sanemi very fast even though he's much, much stronger than in the Hashira meeting.

Giyu

He's said to be equal to Sanemi, which I don't agree with from a feats perspective, but again it's stated, which if we do use it, just means Giyu > Tengen explicitly.

Giyu just in base performs similarly to Tanjiro, who is superior to Tengen atp. But if you don't like the anime nor think retired Tengen is relative to his healthy self in any way, I'm not quite sure.

You could say since Tanjiro says the demons get stronger as he gets stronger, that the clones are superior to Gyutaro individually, which would mean Marked Tanjiro is an outpace above the clones and Gyutaro, and Giyu performing similarly means he's also an outpace above Gyutaro and Tengen or more in base.

You could also say since he blocks Disorder, therefore he's superior to Tengen, but again im not sure.

Mitsuri

She has faster attack speed. She also can dodge Zohakuten’s BDA., she also seemingly goes in to behead him, so she shouldn't struggle at all with Gyutaro nor Tengen.

This is just in base, and yes, Zohakuten is faster than Gyutaro not just a little bit faster, but a moderate bit faster at least. This is because we see Tanjiro clearly struggling with one tree dragon from Zohakuten, no BDAs.

This dragon head can also seemingly outpace a Tanjiro who is arguably a mark-level amp stronger or more than in the previous arc considering Hantengu's statement and Gyokko saying he knows about the mark from Muzan, meaning the Upper Moon duo knew about the mark and Tanjiro’s marked form from the previous arc.

Meaning:

Base Tanjiro in the district (who can combat Gyutaro somewhat while injured ofc gyutaro is poisoned but tanjiro is injured too) < Base Tanjiro in the village (by a mark-level amp and precog) < One tree dragon head < Zohakuten’s BDAs, which are implied to be faster.

So Tanjiro, who can combat Gyutaro to some extent, then gets a mark-level amp and precog, struggles and gets low-diffed by one dragon head, which isn't even one of the faster attacks of Zohakuten.

I think it's pretty clear that Zohakuten should be at least faster than Gyutaro to a point we can say base Mitsuri easily dodging him allows us to conclude she isn't getting tagged by Gyutaro.

This is ignoring the fact that, if we use hantengus statement, it would imply Zohakuten is an outpace above the clones(as he's superior to marked tanjiro) who are stronger than Gyutaro, meaning he's an outpace or more above Gyutaro. Or the fact that Tanjiro says As long as shes alive they can win (which implies he thinks shes stronger at least imo and its clear through feats), when he can outpace the clones who are supposedly superior to Gyutaro, meaning base Mitsuri is an outpace or more above Gyutaro as well if we do use this route.

Obanai

His narrative is also that he should be stronger than Mitsuri, since she wants to marry someone stronger than she is, so he should just upscale from her.

He also outperforms her, as she can't see Muzan's attacks, but Obanai doesn't really struggle at all with this, or at least he doesn't mention Muzan's attacks being too fast, which means he should just leech from Mitsuri.

Rengoku

Assuming the character books are canon , he should just outscale Tengen blatantly, as he's stated to be evenly matched to Akaza.

Even if we don't see this as canon, considering Rengoku's performance vs Akaza (who shouldn't be any different from suppressed Akaza vs Tanjiro or base Giyu) is very similar to Tanjiro's or base Giyu's, who we know should be superior to Tengen.

He also compliments him for his speed, which I don't think he does for Giyu or Tanjiro.

Shinobu

I can't say she's inferior to Tengen, Upper 6, or even Daki level 💀, as she still outpaces Doma even if we say hes talking and not expecting it. This is something that can't be done if you are Gyutaro level. (As we see Inosuke, who has the speed to dodge white-hair Muzan attacks —which Mitsuri cannot— and who can combat him(he is invisiblebut muzan can still feel them out and he also has nigh omnidirectional attacks you still need some speed to dodge them), still can't move fast enough to interrupt Doma speaking, meanwhile Shinobu can do that.)

you could also say since Doma also says Kanao MIGHT be more skillful, which could imply relativity between her and Kanao, and since Kanao and Inosuke are relative, she should be capable of dodging Muzan's attacks just like Inosuke, meaning she's superior to base Mitsuri at the very least.

Also, if we assume all Kamaboko Squad members are relative, she should be a perception blitz above Gyutaro and Tengen either way via upscaling from Zenitsu.

I do find it ridiculous that even if you don't believe she's as fast or faster than Doma, she's automatically considered the weakest Hashira, even though every main slayer in the castle has better feats than Tengen via power creep.

Muichiro

Probably the only one you could argue is below Tengen considering his lack of no-amnesia base feats and the fact his amnesia form is probably inferior to Tengen. (Although you COULD argue that if the clones are stronger than Gyutaro and Tanjiro is relative to them and Muichiro is superior, then amnesia Muichiro is superior to Upper 6 or relative, then gets stronger.)

But even then, he gets his memories back, which makes him stronger, and gets the training, so he should have probably surpassed him either way, and at worst they are relative.

There is something I think is interesting, which is you could say since Mitsuri couldn't maintain the mark (as we don't see her unlock it in the castle), and the fact that Muichiro could maintain and use the mark on demand means he's superior to base Mitsuri. But this is just me I'm not sure if that's how it works since it could just be potential or compatibility.

Pre-Hashira Training

As for pre-Hashira Training, Tengen still won't be 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th if we say feats only. Shinobu, Rengoku, Gyomei, and Mitsuri are all stronger than him since their showings are pre-Hashira-Training levels of strength. (Shinobu didn't participate, Rengoku died, Mitsuri has shown feats before it, and Gyomei is stated to be the strongest even before training in the segment where the Hashira are asked about their opinions of each other and this is pre-training, as Rengoku is alive.)

So I'd say he is the weakest hashira in general and in base he's 8th or 9th, if you wanted you COULD like downplay Shinobu to oblivion and say she's like daki lvl and doma was afk, and that'd get him to 7th hashira in base and 4th strongest hashira pre hashira training after downplaying the 14 year old kid and the 4'11 part time doctor so that's cool. Can't see him being argued above the others in any capacity tho.

Also why does this guy have so many weird moments,he slaps 16 year old Aoi's butt, he wanted to kidnap like 8 year old to act as prostitutes to solve his mistake, he has to mention hips when talking about female hashiras, he marry suma's younger sister when he was 15, suma is 11.(most of these aren't actually perverted its just funny to take them out of context)

Akaza seemingly perception blitzes tanjiro but then afterwards he's capable of combating akaza

I don't want to get called an NPC so this is the tierlist for being sentient right?

Seems interesting

also he's healthy

Both base and also amped

Upper and Lower

Why do people say this I dont get it

Like how valid is it for scaling

Also this seems to be the cookie cutter "npc" common consensus tierlist

Why or why not

What do I change don't be too harsh tho I'm mediocre

Also the template has no TW so assume the DSM forms as peak forms for Muichiro not obanai tho since I don't think he uses it extensively although if you think muichiro can't either then he should be lower like about low upper 3

Other than "I have tengen's balls in my mouth"

Is this a perception blitz?

Gyutaro vs every hashira(individually) both base forms and amped forms

Ubuyashiki said her poison isn't guaranteed to work on upper moons and Doma didn't die from 700x dose so can she?

Where did this come from?????