For me I've had 3 -
Curious about your what your guys' recurring dreams are and if they correlate to type
TW: >!Self harm/death!<
Sadly, I cannot remember first meeting. I had grown up in a major city until 3^(rd) grade when my mother got a job in her home town – a large town about an hour away. I’d never had trouble making friends until we moved there, but I suddenly didn’t fit in. The popular kids were mean. The unpopular kids were maybe too tight knit and lowkey. Eventually, right before 5^(th) grade, I told my mom I wanted to change schools and go to a private school where a friend of mine I’d met at the local theater went.
That’s where we must have met. I can’t remember if she was in my class or not. But at this school 6^(th) grade was considered middle school, and by that time we were friends, though I hardly remember that year itself. Middle school at this place was a ton of fun because they had classes in all these different buildings in this big courtyard, so there was lots of walking around and it just felt independent.
I had gone on a road trip that summer before and I remember her texting me the whole time, and we fell into an easy close friendship after that.
Andy was a very spunky, energetic person. Bold and irreverent. Flirtatious. Had pretty much every guy wrapped around her finger (even our creepy Spanish teacher), though they also seemed a bit afraid of her. She and I were similar, in a way. She didn’t come from a lot of money like most of the kids there. And while I did, I never fit into the popular mold.
Middle school here was a treacherous place. Shifting allegiances were common, at least for the kids like us. Basically you had your main popular kids who had nothing to really worry about status wise, then the good kids no one really had issues with, then us - who never fully had a place except in passing or convenience.
I suppose what I most remember is 7^(th) grade. Personalities were starting to fully develop, and relationships were blooming. I remember all the girls in my grade having an obsession watching the drama of the 8^(th)graders unfold. Who was dating whom, who did what and when. There was one guy who was a player we were especially all obsessed with whispering about. She and I both tried our best to fit in.
I’d spent the summer going over to her house. She’d force me to walk to the grocery store with her, getting random snacks like popsicles and the like. She seemed to always have a plan. We met this guy in the neighborhood, and he clearly preferred to kiss her, but she set it up so that he would kiss me instead – my first time. This is one of the many times I told her I wanted something, and she bullied all parties into making it happen.
She basically dragged me from place to place. She knew many people in the neighborhood and would unabashedly inform me about the details of their lives. She seemed used to not having much money, having to be resourceful and do things on her own. I can’t speak for all the time since I was only around for sporadic visits, but her mother was often in bed or preoccupied.
What we most had in common was music. We shared love for a couple favorite bands and bonded deeply over the songs and lyrics. My mother even took us to see one of them at an outdoor concert, and we both seemed to have a blissful time.
Another thing I remember was her being good with children. She loved babies and she had a younger half-sister who lived with her dad she always adored and looked out for.
But in most ways, she seemed to be a troubled soul. Restless. I remember she told me about something really bad that happened to her, but I was too young to fully process it. Apparently she’d told some other people as well, who all thought she was lying about it. And the way she’d told me, so offhandedly… I thought maybe they were right. Looking back, I’m really not so sure.
It was difficult being friends with her in some ways. She seemed to have every relational door open to her. All the guys had crushes. She was bold and beautiful. There was one guy I really, really liked that she ended up dating for quite a while. Then another guy I also really liked that she had a short thing with. And another older guy I had a crush on paid me no time of day when she was around. It may have even happened more times than this, lol. I did not hold this against her, simply accepting it as reality. I was a pretty late bloomer. I was awkward, both in style and mannerisms. I hadn’t figured out how to play the game, or my place in the world.
But while that was painful, it caused no rift or resentment. What did eventually, however, was the way she treated me. She seemed to take opportunities to put me down in front of people. When it was just her and I she was still brusque, but when it came to being in front of others she would often position herself above me on purpose, minimizing me or embarrassing me in some way. Like I remember her popping one of my pimples without warning in front of everyone or saying dismissive things when I approached her in front of our other friends. And while she was experimenting socially, she would often go cold with me. I remember she became close friends with another girl, who I suspect was an LSE and was very popular, and I was suddenly out of the picture. But I was adaptive. Whatever closeness she wanted, I could fill the gap and when she didn’t seem to want me around, I went off to do my own thing and made my own friendships. Eventually all these people she’d traded me over for screwed her over in some way, and she’d come back.
One time was particularly painful though. She’d invited me and another friend of hers on a road trip with her dad to visit some of her out of state family. On the drive up, everything was good, but once we got there she suddenly formed a sort of closed group with the other girl, sharing secrets with her and making it very clear that she didn’t really want me around, so I kind of just hung out with her family instead.
But still, I adapted. Until the summer after 7^(th) grade. There was a girl I’d met through another friend of mine who had been very cruel and bullied me for absolutely no reason. And as a kid, I just didn’t understand why. She had this hatred for me I had done nothing within my knowledge to deserve. And one night someone texted me telling me Andy was with this girl and her friends and was laughing about me and talking all this trash about me. I believe I was told specifics about what was said. I can’t remember what it was, but it cut deep. I cried the entire night and resolved to not be friends with her after that.
I remember listening to a song by one of the bands we loved that was all about a best friend betraying the other.
“And I've got a twenty-dollar bill
That says you're up late night starting
Fist fights versus fences in your backyard
Wearing your black eye like a badge of honor
Soaking in sympathy
From friends who never loved you
Nearly half as much as me”
Not too long after, I transferred back to public school. (There’d been an incident where I posted a piece of writing online making fun of some of my teachers that hadn’t gone over too well.)
There I found my main group of friends that would last the rest of high school, including my high school best friend – an ESI named Hadley.
It was a year or so later when I started hanging out with a super trashy group of people. You see, I’d wanted to experiment with substances and took what opportunities I could. My friends had brought me over there to smoke. And one night, an LSI guy named Miles was there. He eventually made it clear he wanted to hook up, and we did. I can’t remember if I knew before or after that he’d been Andy’s boyfriend for a while. But I had no qualms because I had no allegiances. It’d been a long time since we’d been friends.
Eventually Andy found out. I’d heard through the grape vine she’d made some sort of statement along the lines of: “He went from ME to HER?”. Oh, and what made this situation even better (worse) was the fact that my newly divorced mother had started to date her mother’s ex. So somehow it must have seemed weirdly calculated or coordinated.
So she asked to hang out, and I accepted. She came over and asked me offhandedly about things with Miles. I kind of just answered her questions, and I think she saw that 1. Miles and I were no great love story and 2. That I hadn’t gotten with him out of some plot against her. She pretty much immediately softened, even encouraging me to be with him if I truly liked him. (I’m not sure if that was underhanded or performative or not, but the hostility was gone.)
We didn’t hang out again for another couple years. We were both around 18 when she reached out again out of the blue. She invited me over to her apartment she shared with her boyfriend, and her demeanor was entirely different. She was kind and accommodating. Overly so. I’m not sure what drove her, but we started hanging out again, casually and one on one. She would tell me about her boyfriend, her health problems, plans she made for her apartment and things about her family, and we’d just smoke, and it was peaceful. No apologies were had for past experiences, and none were needed. We had been kids, and now we were fully formed people.
There's a part of me that thinks maybe she wanted to show me she had changed, that she was safe now.
Not too long later, though, I moved to a college town thirty minutes away, and things sort of naturally discontinued. Then I got the news that she’d passed away in very tragic circumstances, in a way no one expected. I won’t spell it out, but perhaps you can surmise what happened. I felt immense surprise. I wondered if those things she’d told me long ago weren’t lies after all. I wondered if the intense mystery stomach pain she’d complained about to me during our hang out sessions had become too much to handle. I couldn’t imagine what pain could have driven her to such a place.
It wasn’t until a few years later it really hit me that she was gone, and how much pain she must have been in. She was a very, very lively person. Full of life and passions and many people who adored her. So yes.. it was a perplexing shock. I don’t want to reduce her to simple typology, but I can’t help but wonder the role Fi Polr played in her struggles. Did she not truly feel loved, regardless of how desirable she was? I really don’t know.
I’m just glad we got to reunite in the end, and that the final memory of our friendship is a kind one.
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Hopefully you guys enjoy these stories. I just like providing real life experiences of things that are described in the theory.
(Names have been changed for privacy purposes)
Just want to reflect on my process and relationship to goal setting as an IEI.
So whenever I was trying to accomplish goals in the past I would rely on raw motivation and a big push combined with extreme and inflexible routines. That worked when I was younger and inexperienced. But once you fail a few times, raw motivation can be difficult. I also realized that rigid routines were extremely stressful and incongruent to who I actually was. They felt like overriding a flow state in favor of control and rigid adherence.
Lately what I've been doing instead is focusing on psychological safety combined with gentle structure. (So no more jumping from 0 to 100, resenting the process, and burning out.) I've been setting short term goals, with doable, small adjustments. When I used to set big goals and try to do it all right away I'd get overwhelmed and disconcerted, especially if something went wrong. This way, there are levels. So if I take a step and it doesn't work out, I can simply return to the previous level.
For example, right now I'm trying to adjust my diet. Instead of going from where I am to where I want to be, I make one small change and stick with it for a couple weeks. It's been very calming to my psyche. It helps me feel more in touch with linear time and having a concrete check/adjustment point keeps me centered in the current step instead of the massive overwhelming picture. This way, I know what I need to accomplish in the day. I do those things first thing and then I'm allowed to spend the rest of my day in my timeless flow.
Oh and another way I've added gentle structure is by setting up with environment with boundaries I don't have to think about or second guess. For example, I use the brick phone locking thing for my phone and the cold turkey app for my computer to set blocks of time where I can't be online and am kind of left with nothing to do but do physical, real world tasks. (Don't get me wrong I can stare at a wall and be more entertained than I am when doing the dishes but at least it keeps me from spending hours in rabbit holes.)
Another principle, which again is about psychological safety, is when I'm feeling overwhelmed taking just the next action. So lately I've been thinking about getting a roomate and it really freaks me out because it's an unpredictable and intrusive thing in the environment and relationally. So I'm like okay... first I will draft a post to post in roommate groups. Then when I'm feeling brave again I'll post it. Then I will meet with one person. and so on. And I reinforce safety with levels again. Like if the next step feels unsafe, I can go back or pause. There's no pressure.
One more thing - I spent long periods of time not trying because my Ni was telling me that because something had happened a certain way a few times before it was always going to happen the same way. Learning about socionics helped me see that you always have power to change things in the present moment. You do have the power to affect reality. It's important for Ni leads to step into the arena and risk getting hurt. It's the only way to feel truly alive. It's scary as hell to take part in the messy world, but it's better than feeling nothing from the sidelines.
Edit: Also wanted to add that instead of raw motivation I use anchors. Why I want to accomplish something. Why it is important. Remind myself of the alternative. I keep these simple and write them down.
Been obsessed with this song for a while as an achingly poignant illustration of how the SLE x IEI duality can manifest. Wanted to share my interpretation. I imagine it from the SLE's POV
___________________
Oh, when my weight left the room, did you take a deep breath? Se atmospheric pressure on the IEI's suggestive
I stole a beer, drove home, there was only one left SLE acting out in a petty physical way because they cannot force the IEI to engage
And I wrestle the feeling you're still thinking about that Fi Polr paranoia
Wide awake in your room, just seethin' about that Knows the IEI's tendency to ruminate
When I make my flight, I'm the devil SLE defensive about how the IEI takes their harshness
But when I stay the night, then we drink Remembers times were they did connect purely, when guards were down
And we stay up and fight 'bout the childhood lie
That we both had the courage to leave SLE even values arguing because at least it's honest and present engagement
I'm willing and able SLE's purest essence
If you wanna kick this rock around Stubbornness to match the IEI's
If you've got a bone to pick with me Not afraid of the IEI's psychological testing/provocation
If you've got a flag, plant it in the ground Dares the IEI to say directly what they really feel/need
Oh, I'll stay here 'til morning The SLE does not quit easily, they hold the line, they are committed
Oh, we can fight like we used to fight
Bony-limbed, red-faced, and teary-eyed
Under the glow of the TV light
I'd be willing and able
Look at you leaving again, it's all you know how to do Resentment for the IEI's retreat
Go ahead, take the last of the drinks, the world belongs to you Resentment that the IEI holds the cards
They all say you're a light, all I see is a shadow The world sees the Fe mask, the SLE is attuned to the dark and murky Ni
And I'll see you again in six months when you need your next song Resentment for having to yield to the IEI's timing, and for their inconsistency
'Cause if I call you out, I'm an asshole Defensiveness about their tone
But I tell the truth when I drink Owning their honesty, not apologizing for it
So come home, let's fight 'bout the childhood lie
We don't care what the other one thinks They cannot help but be reluctantly honest with each other
Oh, I wish you could know me SLE's true ache, to be close, to be known
And I wish I could know you much more sometimes Se x Ni trying to bridge the gap between two different ways of seeing the world, the elusiveness of Ni and how it can never fully be captured/owned
Wish I could do nothin' with you Just wants them to be secure with each other, at peace
Sit in the yard while the day dies, leave it all on the table No more games, Ni surrenders to the sensory present
And I'll say, "I love you, " and mean it this time </3
Say, "I'm sorry for everything else" Does apologize for bluntness/resentment
If we found a way to the other side
I'd be willing and able
I'd be willing and able
If you're willing, I'm able They just need the green light from the IEI, then they are all in
___________________
(Side note rant: I've typed Noah as an ESI, so makes sense that Se would show up in his music. I've seen people type him as EII and I'm like bro... his lyrics are incredibly grounded in real, sensory life. and songs like Dial Drunk? Northern Attitude? No. That's just my take lol)
Does anyone else ever watch Cam2r on YouTube or other social media?
I think he is ILE and his fiancé Sierra is an SEI and they’re adorable.
He’s all wacky and she’s super even keeled, yet emotive.
Anyway, they’re cute. Just wanted to share and see if anyone else had noticed them too.
Idk if it’s 2D Ti mobilizing but istg the more into typology I get the more unsure of my type I become. The rigidity and constant debates (which Tbf I do seek out myself) and feeling like if you deviate at all from an archetype you are invalid.
I’m just not good at pushing back against that stuff. Like for me I feel very certain that I am IEI-Fe subtype because when I first discovered socionics I actually wanted to be an EII because IEI felt pathetic and floaty but when I read the Fe subtype description by Meged and Ovcharov I was like… this 1000% me to the point where I had a bit of a crisis seeing myself so objectively for the first time.
But I thought I was an E1 sp145. I realize now I’m most likely a sp6w5. But then I read that an IEI-Fe cannot be a sp6 even though it fits me very well. And I just feel at my wits end. Like the minute I figure something out, something else contradicts it.
Can someone help me with anxiety around this? Just hardcore struggling and it makes me want to just say fuck it and stop trying.
(Also istg if someone comes on here and tries to retype me I’m going to LOSE IT 👹👹👹👹 lol)
And yes I know I should touch grass. I’ll get to that after I figure this out.