r/Socionics

Why is Trump typed confidently SEE over SLE? I don’t see much reasoning outside of the fact that he’s not a great businessman, showy and charismatic. I fail to see how a SLE can’t be any of these things. Seeing how he treats those closest to him, a lot of his behavior *does* scream FI polr, how would one confidently assert for instance that he is FI creative TI polr and not flipped.

Not to mention - he seems to incite a *lot* of beta like feelings within people, very divisive for instance.

Hello! I’m wondering, exactly how and when it is used? I read somewhere that it only ’reacts’, and isn’t necessarily sparked by an internal impulse, and hence only used to cover situations when one’s dual’s PoLR function is confronted.

Say, demonstrative Ne, for example. Stratiyevskaya said that the EIE never ’gets stuck in a web’ or ’caught in a corner’. That they always have a way to slither themselves out of a situation, easily coming up with unconvential solutions to unexpected problems, but that they don’t necessarily use it outside these kinds of ’snaring’ situations. Another example is that they allegedly seldom say anything that could potentially be turned against them, and cleverly rephrasing it if they did (not necessarily lying). So could you say that the demonstrative function only alleviates pressure and nothing else? That it’s unproductive, in that sense, and like I said, only reactive?

Thank you for reading! :)

Using their cult leader like influence, apocalyptic senses, would it be logical to assume that they would have an easy time creating a scapegoat?

If they did change, between which schools is this change likely to happen?

This story was told to me by a LSE family relative, I shared it because it matches Augusta's "When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the ability to plan his and others’ work, understand the logicalness and illogicalness of processes, and correct the work activities of other people in accordance with this understanding. And the ability to apply personally and convey to others the most rational ways of doing things." to the Te.

My relative works in the public procurment department of a company.

"A few days ago I went to work and my department manager told me to help a collegue, Mike, with a problem that arose with the procurment commitee he was in charge of. The president of the commitee, John, had gotten sick a week earlier and Mike replaced him with Dave. Requests of clarification entered the night before from bidders and the current day was the only day the committee could send the clarification responses without incurring penelties. The current president was complaining work overload and wanted to be removed from the commitee. Luckly the previous president had returned from the medical leave earlier so I drafted the documentation for the change of committee president.

Everything was going smooth but while drafting the final documentation that would give the committee green light to start preparing the clarification responses I noticed my collegue, Mike, made the mistake of removing John as a backup member from the committe list, this meant John could not be appointed as president again without a series of administrative operations that due to the usual delays in bureaucratic processing were imposible to complete in one day.

So I went back to Dave and exaplained the nature of the situation and why he needed to remain the president of the committe. When he still refused I reminded him that the penalties are paid by the members of the committe themselves, including him. After he ultimately accepted the situation I sent one of the best people, Emma, from my department to help the committe draft the clarification responses. When Emma finished helping with the drafting and came back I went to check how the committee was revising the documents. I found the comitee members going back and forth between stacks of papers with no clear direction. I helped them organize the workload, went through the entire documentation with them and assisted them in integrating eveything into the public procurment platform."

The story serves as a example of Augusta’s description of Te lead showing the ability to maintain the functioning of a process by aligning actions, people and procedures. He planned both his own work and the work of others by coordinating the committee, assigning personnel where they were needed, corrected the work of his colleagues by reorganizing responsibilities, restoring a workable sequence of actions and conveing the most rational way of completing the task by structuring the committee’s workload and guiding them through the documentation and procurement platform until the clarification responses were submitted.

Ps: While this behaviour may not be exclusive to any single type, the speed and clarity with which he navigated the situation and restored the workflow suggests a natural inclination twoards this Te like style.

That's the question! Is it reliable to type someone based on their behaviour or do you have to dig much deeper than that? Can someone have certain IMEs (so they come to their conclusions a certain way) but naturally behave very differently from what's expected?

I've been running a static onboarding questionnaire on Socion for a while, and the honest truth is a fixed set of questions can't adapt when someone's answers point somewhere unexpected. so i've replaced it with an AI typing chat that actually follows the thread.

how it works: it reasons through the function stack rather than pattern-matching to stereotypes. it asks follow-ups based on what you say, and where it's genuinely uncertain it'll show you a lean rather than forcing a confident answer it can't back up. the output is a probability lean across likely types, not a hard binary assignment.

it's open to existing users too, not just new signups: so if you onboarded ages ago, never finished the questionnaire, or are still sitting there unverified, you can run it and get a fresh read. it won't overwrite a human-specialist verification if you already have one.

the usual caveat applies: self-report is unreliable and no automated tool gets typing right every time. this isn't a replacement for working out your type properly in a community or with a specialist: it's a faster, more adaptive starting point that's honest about its own confidence.

I would genuinely value people here running difficult or ambiguous cases through it and telling me where it goes wrong. that feedback loop is the whole point.

-Wary of new people but quickly warms up to them and seeks attention when they show they're friendly

-Jealous or annoyed by other cats & small dogs, scared to death of big dogs

-Velcro cat, can't do a single thing without her in my face

-Responsive to people 'hyping her up', she starts rolling from excitement

-For an elder cat, she's lively like stated and I believe she will live to 20 at the very least

-Passed the mirror test once

-Waits for me at the door

-Specific about how her food & water is prepared and where it's located it drives me insane

-Doesn't like being held

Another point which I think is important but didn't add in earlier:
-She stares at herself in selfies, whose pet does that?

Half-joke thread!

Can EII be strong willed, opinionated, very talkative and not particularly shy? Can EII come off as intimidating or mean to people who don't really know them (resting bitch face or smth)? Can EII be quite determined to fight for ethical reasons, argue about morality openly and try to confront people who do bad things (as long as it's not a risk to their physical safety)? What I mean by all that is can EII be generally a person with a strong emotional and mental presence but completely disconnected from their physical surroundings. Confident in their ability to judge people, actions and feelings, not scared to speak up, but clumsy as fuck in the physical sense, completely blind to the visual side of the environment, not able to take much action in their life as everything demands too much mobilising and fighting, but fine with intellectual and emotional confrontation (though will probably ruminate on that for weeks).

i’ve done many questionnaires but they’ve been no help. i’m mostly sure i’m an ethical type and likely extroverted but it’s really hard for me to figure out what my actual type is. i’d just appreciate help since im kind of new to socionics too. could someone like type me and question me? it’s a lot easier than doing a premade questionnaire haha

She constantly says that she's a realist and that she doesn't care nor think about emotions. She only cares about immediate environment and what's in front of her. She says that she doesn't have internal imagination nor world and only cares what is real and she can touch.

She hates to talk about hypothetical scenarios, logical consistency and emotions. She tends to just talk about what she will do or someone else should do in order to improve their life or fix their environment. She constantly wants to work in the yard or fix things around the house or even just clean.

She is quite tempered and loses patience real fast and only wants results now, she goes head through the wall and refuses to learn but just wants things done here and now.

She has low emotional intelligence and refuses to talk about her emotions and emotions of other people.

She likes to talk about facts that she read and how world works and is but refuses to discuss logical procedure or truth of something. She reads it and claims it in very dry and matter of fact way.

She's very assertive when it comes to cashiers and waiters. She has no problem asserting her needs and complain nor blame other people.

She seems to value Se and Te but she seems to have absolutely no Ti, Ne and Ni but relatively decent Si.

She's hardworking and will always show sign of love through action or and doing things for someone or gifts but never use words of affirmation.

She focuses a lot of guilt, shame and image but doesn't care for status.

She cares a lot about aesthetics but is very hypochondriac despite pushing through hard work.

She often talks about equality and socialism which she is in favor of because she values hard work and being humble.

She constantly criticizes people for being immoral or corrupted.

I'm among LSE, SEE and ESI for her.

What do you guys think?

based on the movies---can anyone do a writeup? im curious

I’m like 90% sure I’m an IEE but I love cooking and making up new recipes, and I’m pretty good at it lol. I also love going to the gym + playing sports for my mental and physical health, really makes me feel grounded

I’ve ruled out other ethical types, and even SEI because I don’t really struggle with Te, and anyway I think I’m likely to be an Ne base

So can Si seeking manifest itself as indulging in their Si because it gives them peace? Is the IEE / ILE unable to take care of themselves thing a stereotype lol

TLDR: I relate to ILI more than any other type, but don't fit the stereotype of being lazy and depressed, so can I still be ILI?

I was pretty sure my type was ILI but having done some quizzes I can't get past a couple of things that keep coming up:

- laziness, sluggishness, general lack of energy

- depression, low mood, feeling like a victim

- being ok with things like low-level lying and cheating.

And these are NOT how I see myself.

Here's some info about me that might be useful in showing why I am so confused.

Why I thought I was ILI: The things I find easy are understanding new concepts and frameworks, working out who is important, and translating complex ideas into plain english with practical examples. I find it easy to come up with probabilities around scenarios, and I do this automatically all the time. Inside my brain is a bit like a map, and all the different data points are arranged across it according to time, and I mentally move them around as things change in the real world. I thought this would fit as an ILI brain.

Other things about me:

I have started and got bored with a number of university degrees across humanities, law, business and science. I did complete a bachelor and masters degree though, and I do dream of studying for a doctorate.

I'm independent, competitive, curious and energetic. I have worked in pretty competitive industries and I pushed my way into all of them (that is, i took the initiative to go and get myself in there in any way I could rather than applying for a job).

I've lived in about 15 countries for periods of 6 months or more, and spent shorter periods in dozens of others. This was mostly places with ongoing wars or political crises or other upheavals. Some of this was for work, some was independent. Some was alone, sometimes I hooked up with someone fun and made them come with me to wherever I decided to go. Sometimes I found someone interesting who was going somewhere cool and I would just go with them.

I have friends all over the world and love to visit them and go out and have fun in different cities. I can also have fun on my own and am happy to just head out to a club or bar on my own in a new city. I always make new friends who I sometimes hang onto for life, or sometimes just abandon that night. I have no trouble talking to people and making friends in any country or culture even if there is a language barrier. I believe I have friends who I talk to and friends who I party with and they are quite separate.

I have no desire to work my way up to the top of an organisation - this would be a waste of a life. I cannot stand people who use personal connections to get a promotion or whatever and then expect people to respect them. I look with pity upon people who are susceptible to honey traps, I just feel sorry for them but also a bit grossed out.

I spend a lot of time analysing individuals and working out what motivates them. I like to help people develop their skills, and if I had children I would have high standards for their academic, sports and musical achievements. I don't have children because I value my freedom and independence too much, and even though I feel pressure from outside I'm quite good at ignoring it. I know I would sacrifice everything for that kid if they were ever born though.

I care a lot about my family and friends and would do anything for them. I believe that it's better to help one individual in front of you than to try and improve things at the system level. I always carry cash in case I encounter someone who needs it.

I'm not impressed by position or rank - I treat everyone the same, and if someone powerful pisses me off I will not show them any respect. I do not think I have ever really felt fear, and I have high levels of confidence in my ability to get myself out of threatening situations.

In the past I have felt disappointed when things didn't happen the way I had expected they would - university was way more boring than movies had made me think it would be, and it made me really sad!

I love high quality aesthetic things - fashion, food, music, architecture and I have strong opinions about what is good and what is not. Across these, I prefer things that push boundaries but still respect the tradition.

I get irritated by randomness and inconsistency.

Random combinations of foods irritate me - I want to understand how you came up with a new creation, not just that you threw things together and hoped for the best. When I cook, I love to experiment using small changes rather than dramatically overhauling the system. I prefer meals that show high levels of skill and refinement in making cheap ingredients taste amazing, rather than having a plate with expensive ingredients that will taste good no matter what you do to them.

I like music that is boundary pushing and clever, even if it is hard to listen to, but I also love blues and electronica and techno that is simple but refined. My instagram feed is mostly genius drummers doing wacky rhythms. I react very badly to songs that are boring, way more than a reasonable person would. I do not listen to song lyrics at all.

As a child I was competitive about music but I didn't like doing what I was told. To pass my exams I would do things like choose a piece that was much harder and more obscure than what the others were playing so that the examiner was thrown off, gave me points for ambition and originality, and focused less on the technical faults. I preferred to be memorable or unique rather than perfect.

Adrenaline stuff - love it all, I have a strong risk appetite, but I wouldn't design my life around things like extreme hiking or survival skills or whatever. I've done plenty of daring things but I would not say it is what makes me who I am.

Here are reasons why I don't think I fit other types:

ESI: I do relate a lot to the ethical elements of this type - I am judgmental and exacting and have very high standards for people. BUT I feel like Ni and Te are my strengths because compared to other people I am much faster at calculations, predictions, probability, that sort of thing, and I have no dreams of a stable family life with loved ones I care for.

LIE: Again, I'm very judgmental and critical of a lot of people, and LIE seems to be quite jovial, trusting and naive at times. I don't share the LIE focus on achievement, I'm more interested in experience. I'm not a workaholic and I love eating. I never lose my cool or get aggressive without controlling it.

EIE: I can be a bit dramatic to entertain my friends, but Si PoLR doesn't fit, I have great recall of details, notice changes in the environment, look after my health blah blah blah etc. I don't value Fe stuff - I hate public speaking, I hate having to say things in meetings, I'd rather just get on with doing the thing. The idea of 'controlling the mood of a room' makes me feel really icky for some reason (maybe it's my PoLR).

SEE: I can appear impulsive but I'm good at budgeting and planning and I always know how much money I have available etc. When I argue I use Ti arguments not Fi, and I love theoretical discussions, definitions and categories whereas I think SEEs run away from that.

Si types: I just don't really relate, I'm not very into physical systems, I'm more into projections and probabilities. I like refined things but I don't really care about comfort and cosiness. I would take adventure over comfort any day. I hate routine.

Ne types: I just don't find myself doing a lot of Ne stuff tbh. I don't quite get it and I find Ne types quite difficult to relate to, it's not a relaxing time and I feel like I have to be on guard with them, maybe I find them a bit unpredictable. LIIs are probably the type I find the most able to relate to.

Beta in general: I think I'm too independent and individualistic, and I find things like politics a fun game but in the end pretty pointless and a waste of time.

I totally expect people to say 'that's not x, that's not y' and please go ahead because this is a topic where standardised definitions are not a thing. Any definitions have been absorbed from wikisocion, youtube and reddit, don't blame me!

Thank you for your help, I am open to any suggestions and ideas!

On socionics tests I consistency score SEI. However, every Quadra analysis/test leads me to gamma every single time. I generally consider ESI to be my type.

Is there a reason why I score SEI, but don’t consider Alpha a possibility?

I know ESI SEI quite similar. I’m new to socionics and just trying to figure this out

I have known many SLE types and we can get in a knockdown drag out fight just hours before where it's really brutal, and then just a couple of hours later they forget about it and all is well. Someone please explain this to me.

This isn’t going to be a long post, but I think that descriptions of the demonstrative function paint it as being very strong, 4D, as if it is an actual strength.

I’m not seeing this reflected in reality. It’s almost as if there is something lacking. There is a resistance, dismissiveness, and critical view of this function by the user, both internally, and projected onto others.

What I don’t get is that it apparently can be skillfully used, but that is short lived and quite rare imho, with it mostly being dismissed, ignored, and not utilized, both internally oneself and for others. It just seems kind of lacking in reality compared to how it is described in theory.

What are your thoughts on all of this?

Thanks in advance!

Hi everyone. I've been thinking lately replaying in my head the personal traits that came to light after some analysis. I wanted to ask does this even matter? Please don't take this as silly. It's nighttime right now, so there might be mistakes or weird phrasing, sorry in advance.

I'm curious does the fact that a person barely understands themselves, not realizing how different their self-image is from how they actually come across in reality, say anything about their type? They might adopt traits from others if they like them. I've been watching a YouTuber for like 7–8 years, and I've been told by people who know both of us that I have similarities with him. I catch interests from others, I can build my style around something or someone like "oh, I like this girl from that movie, she wears this kind of outfit, so that means it goes together and it's fine, I want to wear more of that. Overall, it feels like copying often unconscious, only noticeable with explicit analysis and time. No internal sense of what's okay or not with people, how to express yourself. Social anxiety. For example, I had to give a presentation for the first time in a class with a professor who was unpredictable, whose behavior patterns I hadn't studied yet. The girl in front of me went with jokes and smiles without overdoing it. Then I went next, mimicking her or at least making my delivery similar to hers, but it came out awkward and stupid, to the point where I felt sick of myself afterwards. If she did it then it's allowed, I'm permitted. I'll try. I don't like my facial expressions sometimes they feel exaggerated, maybe because I subconsciously think that charismatic people do that, so maybe I'll look like that too. Though I rarely do it, you'd have to get close to me to see that side. I actively try not to show my emotions thinking I look stupid and exposed. No clear understanding of my own personality, so in search of it, to fill the void inside, I take tests and look for kin characters. A craving for labels, so I can give myself a personality and understand it.

Maybe there's a connection here with my Enneagram type 9, which is also known for often having issues with self-understanding. But no harm in trying, right? Hoping for some feedback. Honestly, I think I might have Fe PolR, but hell if I know