Brothers PLEEEASE at least let bro get better feats than Aramaki 1st...
Aramaki top 10 is fine. But LACKainu???? Naaaaaw
Manga announcement!!! Akainu only took down yc-12 tier guy with him
GOATbull took like 8 ... so
Now that we know Shanks really is built different and tiers above Roger
We can happily upscale Kidd and Greenbull into top 10 where they deserve to b
He called me a "donkey" said "I own you" and deleted is account lmfao
Where do these people come from?
0% research 1000% overconfidence
I picked Bogard agenda years ago because he's clearly HIM and extremely overlooked as he's the silent demon. Running Garp's SWORD from the background.
Garp saw how bad the World Government was, run by demons on God Valley. Bogard would have seen too or at least Garp would have told him. But Garp cannot actively go against the WG. So instead he and Bogard came up with this SWORD system where Bogard (swordsman) runs sword silently as an undercover marine group built of actual good moral Marines. This way the WG can keep an eye on Garp, but not find ANYTHING out about the SWORD group. Because Garp doesn't run it.
It's Bogards special ability to be undercover and thus even Oda forgets about him sometimes (on purpose). We clearly see Oda actually knows Bogards power as he is seen as Garp's right hand on God Valley. However Oda off screens Bogard to keep the reveal hidden. And to stick to Bogards theme.
Truely peak #1 most undercover of all time. Also Bogart is a cool actor IRL in stuff like Casa Blanca. Oda loves old movies and often incorporates ideas and actors into one piece. Star Wars with Vegapunk and light saber Kizaru. Marine Admirals as famous Japanese actors. Etc
Just let Oda cook
I get it some of you may not like him....
But he fought Fuji (not all out) in chapter ~730
Trained with Mera chapter 803
Confronted Imu chapter ~ 1080
And not it's chapter 1182...
So how is this guy not Admiral level? He is THE MOST clear example of an Admiral tier in the whole manga that's not a literal Admiral.
I mean I hate LOWflamingo and LOWden but I don't try to downplay them by 2 tiers
I had Garling down a tier, but it was too zoomed out lol. Also I think there some potential he's actually here as strongest Gorosei.
Not sure if I need a tier above Loki for Shanks but I'm betting on high diff fight & Loki got stronger since.
Blackbeard I'd be happy to move up but ik it's going to upset 50% of people due to onscreen vs offscreen Beard
Please don't cope about Sabo he's trained on panel, and survived Imu and it's bee. 400 chapter since he was weaker than Fujitora. He's on this tier by now at least.
Last 4 guys might end up anywhere it's very hard to scale them atm until we see some real fights from them.
God bless
I picked this matchup because both these guys must hate Shoonks
I also think it's a very interesting 1 vs 1 because of how the fruits interact. I don't believe Kidd's magnetic powers eouod help him AT ALL against Aramaki besides ofc his awakening
But what's funny is despite that, Kidd still has an extremely favorable matchup here against Greenbull because he is shown to damage Big Mom and tank her hits. Metal > Stone > Wood. So this is some Luffy vs Enel type advantage.
Now normally I would say Ryokugyu outclassed anyone in Kidd tier. But do to the severity of the hard counter I'd say Kid wins and is giving guy the Luffy vs Enel treatment.
Have a good day
Yamato vs g2 aCoC Luffy
Loki vs Roger
Old Big Mom vs Prime Garp
Zoro vs g2 aCoC Luffy
Fujitora vs Yamato
Law vs g4 aCoc Luffy
Zoro vs Greenbull
The two fights are actually very similar
- Luffy charges in and underestimates Kizaru / Katakuri
- base is not nearly enough Luffy goes g4
- Kizaru & Katkuri easily knock Luffy out of g4 form
- luffy isn't KO'd and returns
- luffy powers up and the fight is more even
- Kizaru / Kat get hit finally and for a bit it seems like a bog deal
- there's something up with both Kizaru and Kat though
- Luffy gets damaged from outside influence (Labostratum barrier indirectly and Flampe indirectly)
- Luffy big attack White Star Gun & Katakuri damage post merienda
- round 2 happens and Luffy seemingly powers up even more
- Luffy pulls out an even stronger move (Dawn Cymbal & Snakeman Finisher)
- both Kizaru & Katakuri are heavily damaged but still conscious
- we get a speech panel of Kizaru / Katakuri objectively proving mental confliction in addition to physical damage
- Kizaru & Katakuri both get up first BUT DONT ATTACK Luffy (Kizaru does after round 1 while Katakuri does after round 2)
- Kizaru / Katakuri stop chose to stay down and stop fighting rather than being damage KO'd by Luffy (Kizaru stays on the boat, Katakuri stays in the mirror world)
- Luffy leaves to focus on the main arc threat Gorosei & Big Mom
Ontop of this
- both Kizaru & Katakuri excel at speed
- Kizaru is just following orders from the WG, Katakuri is just following orders from his Mom
- it's left ambiguous if Kizaru & Katakuri are going to be enemies or allies
Oh yeah wait didn't FRANK also knock away Big Mom?
Oh yeah wait didn't Marco.... 😎
Sometimes people tend to scale characters like Crocodile or Sabo or Koby or Zoro based on feats from hundreds of chapters ago.
Remeber we are nearing chapter 1200!!!
These important end game characters are only getting stronger as we head into the final arc. Maybe even Akainu will get a power up towards the end who knows.
Many characters train and grow stronger each arc. Keep in mind
😁🫡 o7
Should be self explanatory
Fuji stops holding back VERBATIM
Also Zoro would low diff injured no df King & Queen and also get low diffed by WiFi just like Greenbull! 😍 Admiral tier Woro W
Katakuri is objectively > Fujitora from both feats and statements. No way Karasu or Morley are stalling a dude with FS. We already saw him neg diff g3 which Fujitora got damaged by. Ray stated only a select few of the top of the verse have Future Sight. Katakuri was stilling stronger than Act 2 Luffy.
Beckman isn't in Kidd's tier. There's no chance Shanks' vice captain is getting DD diffed. Beckman is going to be on par with Rayleigh.
Marco yall already know has feats to show he's Admiral tier. I already made a whole post about this. Imagine Kizaru in seastone vs Marco & Curiel. Admiral agenda would have died at chapter 550. Rather than 1050.
Yamato is not weak. She 1 vs 1 Kaido and pushed to mid diff. She's 1 or 2 tiers below Kaido by Manga feats.
Beckman > marineford Marco > Kizaru > Yamato > Katakuri > Fujitora > Zoro > retired Marco
Imu literally acknowledges GOAT
Oda "check out my new OC, Ragnir! 🐿"
Ragnir > Base Harald > Admiral
We understand this to be true because of Xebec and Haralds feats ofc. And Ragnir was successfully able to guard Nidhogg from Harald.
So can Ragnir solo all 3 OGs? My opinion? Well... I can't even image Ragnir losing.
There are a couple facts we need to get off the bat.
*Objective manga panels*
Gorosei state after Marineford, after watching the War and getting Sengoku's report "only Yonko and possibly Marco the Phoenix could stop Blackbeard"
Big Mom states in Wano "I don't have the soul power to waste fighting you"
Marco fought Akainu several times and was uninjured
Now that we have gotten some things out of the way. How is Marco downplayed? After all he is just a "regen merchant" with low Attack Power and thus weak. Not top tier.
*NOT A TOP TIER = TRUE*
Well, correct, he is not a Top Tier. Because Marco is the canonical threshold for Top Tier. Marco is downplayed to being BELOW the admirals. Generally by 1 to 2 tiers on EVERYONES tier list. But there is no evidence he is 1 or even 2 tiers below them. Not one panel of evidence.
You see around 2011, people argued the Admirals could each defeat 1 Yonko due to Old Beard's performance at Marineford. WB is Marco's captain so surely Marco must be below Admirals in order for the logic to hold. And so the term "Yc1' was invented to place Marco 1 tier below Admirals! Wa-la!
But this is missing key details. And leaving out a lot of evidence pointing to the contrary.
- Marco never lost to an Admiral despite fighting all 3 of them.
- in fact Seastone cuffs were needed to give Kizaru the edge against Marco ontop of the distraction (same heart attack distraction that Aokiji one shot Jozu with btw)
- Old Beard had heart attacks and cancer no Conquerors haki. So it's incorrect to assume or state now with hindsight that he was equal to Shanks, Kaido and Linlin.
Meaning ofc the Admirals can do well against Cancer Beard.... that doesn't mean they are equal the other Yonko nor a tier above Marco. It's a fallacy to say "Akainu took off WB's head so he defeats Marco! 1 tier above!"
The fact is on panel, Akainu did fight Marco several times in different scene and never did anything notable to Marco. Contrast with Garp who did!!!
*REGEN MERCHANT = COPE*
The next obvious piece of argumentation is simple. If Marco is a "regen merchant" who relies on his devil fruit, then by the same standard Kizaru is a "light merchant" who relies on his devil fruit. And the the same with Greenbull, Aokiji, etc
*POOR STAMINA = FALSE*
Another common downplay is "Marco lost to King! He had bad stamina!". This is used to put Greenbull 2 tiers above Marco.
What is the main issue here? Well against simple. Marco was NOT out of stamina nor KO'd. After the fodder beast pirate stated "Marco is down!", we see Sanji and Zoro attacked by King. And who saves the cast Zoro? It's Marco! He was injured by King but clearly still in fighting shape.
Marco is actually doubly proven to NOT be out of stamina because... Marco fights Kaido!!!! After this scene. And in the end of the War Marco is up and appears fine. Unlike Sanji, Zoro, and Luffy all who are not.
We see the same thing in Marineford! Despite fighting 3 Admirals, despite being shackled in Seastone and shot up by Kizaru... in the end of the war is Marco out of stamina? NO! Marco appears to be fine. Still leading the WBPs.
*MARCO HAS POOR AP = FALSE*
While Marco lacks any conquerors haki or an offensive fruit, his attack power is not poor. His AP is just NOT top tier.
But why would Marco need to have top tier attack power if he is not even top tier? Just the threshold for top tier. It makes no sense...
Marco has other top tier stats like IQ, Speed, strength and endurance.
Next, if we compare his Attack Power to others with HIGH attack power, Luffy and Zoro we see it is directly compared.
Zoro pre Enma aCoC cannot damage King. Yet Marco without any aCoC can damage both King and Queen. Two who have been shown to excell at durability and defenses.
Luffy in g5 cannot damage or knock away a blocking Kizaru with nameless attacks. Yet Marco DOES knock away a blocking Kizaru with a nameless kick.
Now ofc Luffy and Zoro with aCoC scale above Marco for Attack Power. Because they have aCoC boosting their AP. But we objectively see without aCoC... Marco has BETTER AP then Luffy and Zoro. His base strength and haki stat is STRONGER
*GREENBULL LOW DIFFED KING, WHILE MARCO DID NOT = IGNORING FACTS*
Greenbull DID low diff King and Queen. He low diffed a King using no DF, lunarian defensive hacks, and who was injured.
Marco was shown to be able to fight 1 vs 2 against King and Queen who were at FULL STRENGTH until he started helping Chopper. And he successfully held them back until Sanji and Zoro were ready to fight!
We don't know how Greenbull would fair against King and Queen 1 vs 2 when they are at FULL STRENGTH. We just know Morley was able to hold off Greenbull's Tree form.
*BIG MOM LOW DIFFED MARCO = HEADCANON*
Big Mom grabbed Marco. She instructed Perospero (so it was actually 2 vs 1 again) to attack Marco. But she also LEFT! She admitted Marco would require too much soul power to fight. She couldn't just mid diff Marco like she might possibly do to Kidd or Law in a 1 vs 1. In fact even with 2 vs 1 Big Mom admitted she didn't want to deal with him!
Marco's raw strength also evenly matched Big Mom! In their clash. Linlin was likely not using her aCoC here. But she still has consistently been shown to have top top top tier raw strength. Marco's devil fruit Phoenix gives him comparable strength to Linlin.
*CONCLUSION*
Marco is not 2 tiers below Greenbull. That would make him 3 or 4 tiers below Kaido which is confirmed WRONG as Kaido never low diffed Marco.
Marco is not 2 tiers below Kizaru. If he were then Kizaru would NEVER need to use Seastone & distraction to deal with Marco.
Marco is the threshold for Top Tier. Consistently been shown and used to Hype up Yonko like Linlin, Blackbeard and Kaido.
No Admiral has ever been shown to be far above Marco. On the other hand Marco has had to fight 3 Admirals and did well!
Top Tiers are those who stand above everyone else at the "Top" of the verse. Characters who rule sections of the sea.
Marco is 1 tier below these rulers and on par with Admirals
Marco is downplayed because he is the Threshold. If he is NOT downplayed it means these Admirals are not Top Tier. This is too much for Admiral agenda stans to cope with. So they push down Marco. In hopes to sneak Admirals into WB's and Shanks' tier.
We all know now this is cope. Xebec feats, Loki feats, Shanks feats. It's been shown time and time again the Admirals are not in that tier either.
Marco = Admiral tier
Marco being "Yc1" was debunked by Oda in an SBS many many many years ago stating the division number did NOT correspond to power. "Yc1" isn't even a title from One Piece. While it works in some cases like King. It is still made up and shouldn't be used to downplay other chatacters.
It's shown and stated in the manga
Yet I've been seeing fools put characters above Kaido who don't even have basic conquerors haki....
Even characters with adv Conqueros like Yamato, Zoro and g4 Luffy still lose to Kaido
You need to have advanced conquerors haki and have overall haki greater than Kaido to defeat him.
You can damage Kaido with adv armament emission / internal destruction, but it will not be enough. It's only superficial.
We see a direct point plant 4 man combo attack of Ryuuo with Paradise Totsuga not do enough damage to seriously effect Kaido.
Heck we even see aCoC attacks from Yamato and Zoro that damage Kaido but aren't putting him down.
Advanced Conqueors is the minimum needed to fight Kaido 1 vs 1, not even win.