u/Daffneigh

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The discourse about Taylor is always full of a “wall of voices” but I’ve been struck by how *much* of it seems to stem from this notion some fans have that, even on something like her wedding, they have the right to submit their opinion to a “suggestion box” and further that the (parasocial) fan relations grants fans any rights over the life of the person they supposedly admire.

Taylor’s willingness to share parts of her life with fans does not, and never has, meant that fans have any say in her personal life choices. So many people who seem disappointed that she didn’t choose the wedding venue or style *they think* she should have… it’s well past time to stop claiming that Taylor’s closeness with fans justifies this kind of demand.

Note bc this always is the rejoinder — this is NOT saying that fans or others have no right to criticize Taylor for anything, but specifically justifying their “disappointment” bc of their special fan relationship is NOT valid. And on something that truly does not involve fans at all — like a choice of wedding venue — fan investment in her music does NOT give them a stake in this matter.

(Caroline Polachek is a great musician and you should check out her music)

For fun this week, two polls!

This one is “happy” or positive songs about weddings or wedding-adjacent things. Specifically TS songs!

NOMINATE your fave in the comments

UPVOTE the ones you enjoy

DEBATE the true meaning of happiness if you want!

That’s it, that’s the poll, enjoy!

For fun this week, two polls!

This one is “sad” or negative songs about weddings or wedding-adjacent things. Specifically TS songs!

NOMINATE your fave in the comments

UPVOTE the ones you enjoy

DEBATE if a song is sad or not if you want!

That’s it, that’s the poll!

A huge undercurrent of current TS discourse is that Taylor wanting fame, awards, chart positions or even a big wedding at a famous location is somehow morally problematic.

In general, the internet moralizes the idea of “attention seeking” — in reality desiring attention is morally neutral, and in fact for people who enjoy attention becoming a performer is a great choice!

Some of this discourse is of course bc Taylor is more than just famous, but some of it is stemming from a philosophically suspect principle that a person who continues to have ambitions and desire recognition when they have already achieved it is doing something wrong.

Why do you think people try to make this a moral issue?

How does this discourse intersect with the anxiety some fans are feeling about it what married life will mean for Taylor’s future career?

Post your (serious or humorous) predictions for the weirdest thing the media is going to “report” this week here.

Today’s song is the title track and a single from the album Lover.

To be upfront — the word “lover” and I have never gotten along. I am on the record as someone who doesn’t believe in cringe, but the use of the word “lover” for a romantic partner sets my teeth on edge and there’s just nothing i can do about that. That fact means that this song was fighting an uphill battle with me from the start.

People love this song, and see it as very romantic! Taylor herself has said that she wrote it as a timeless wedding reception song. Of course, she also later put it on her “Denial” playlist, so…

I do not find most of this song to be romantic. The music is slow and waltzy and lacks interest to me. The lyrics… conceiving of this song as a wedding/marriage song is baffling to me, since at its central point it is deliberately subverting the wedding vows. That’s confusing to me!

Individual lines have sweet sentiments (sometimes verging on saccharine), but other lines seem (to me, a person who first heard the song post-2022) anxious and seeking reassurance. In the broader auto-fictional context of TS’ music work this (now) makes sense but at the time, I wonder how it was really viewed? I am the last person to mock Taylor for “trying too hard” but to me, the effort of crafting this song shows, and not in a positive way.

I will say that I appreciated the Live from Paris version much more musically, which goes to the fact that my number one problem with Lover songs is usually the production. However I just can’t get over the twee-ness combined with the anxiety and there’s only a few interesting lyric choices, which all together makes this song one of my very least favorite TS songs.

Favorite lyric: have I know you twenty seconds or twenty years?

Instrumental: 4/10 album 7/10 live from Paris

Rating: 3/10

A lot of the discourse about Showgirl takes it for granted that the lyrics are somehow different and/or less “poetic” than previous albums. So I thought it would be fun to havea Discussion about how almost every characteristic “Swiftian” poetic device is actually quite present in Showgirl’s lyrics.

Alliteration is just as present as ever! A few examples:

Be my NY whеn Hollywood hates me
You're only as hot as your last hit, baby (ET)

Friends / foes // failure/ freedom (Opalite)

Rise / reign // tricks / trade (Father Figure)

Wrote me a song saying it makes you sick to see my face
Some people… (hisssss)
(Actually Romantic)

There’s plenty more of course…

Assonance is also all over the place. A few examples

time lapse / lilacs (Eldest Daughter)

fat ass / baby face (Wish List)

took him back
And then stepped on a crack and the black cat laughed (rhyme —> assonance) (Wood)

It's easy to love you when you're popular
The optics click, everyone prospers
But one single drop, you're off the roster
"Tone-deaf and hot, let's fucking off her"
(A very extended example) (CANCELLED)

Consonance is less pervasive but still therr, for example in Opalite:

Strikes/ onyx

up up up up / temporary speed bump

Internal rhyme is one of my favorite Swiftian poetic moves:

I sat alone in my tower
You were just honing your powers (Ophelia)

Be my // NY
Number one // can’t have fun (ET)

dying/ trying to seem cool (Eldest Daughter)

Anaphora/ epiphora, thw repetition of the same phrase at the beginning or end of a line:

Everybody’s/ every (beginning of ED)

They want etc (the whole structure of WL)

If you want / one you want (Honey)

I wondered if there were any traditional
Swift poetics missing? The only thing I couldn’t find was her love to “Twist a common phrase” but I could have missed one.

People say the writing on Showgirl is direct and overly simple but it is simply less dense and with fewer metaphors (tho by no means none), she is still using her same toolbox of poetic devices in abundance. I also didn’t even highlight her choices of slant rhyme bc there are so many!

Nor did I dive into the use of imagery, which has also been oddly ignored in discussions. feel free to mention any imagery that sticks with you.

What do you think? Are the lyrics on Showgirl actually any less “poetic” than other albums?

What’s your favorite poetic line/device on Showgirl?

A really impressive lineup!

What do you think? Will you try to get tickets?

Today’s song is from Red and has the honor and distinction of being my very favorite Taylor Swift song! It is a self-written song with production by Jeff Bhasker (who worked with Fun. as well as producing some of Kanye’s well-known songs). The production is upbeat and unusually drum-forward, indeed it’s fair to call it pop-rock imo. There was even a drum solo during Red Tour!

Why is this song my favorite? I can’t point to any specific reason, but everything about it just works for me. The lyrics are great (some of her best on Red), the beat is strong, and the energy is quintessentially TS, reflecting somewhat ambiguously on a past relationship. I was interested to read that the song was singled out for being “reflective” and “mature” by critics at the time — for, apparently, its lack of bitterness.

For those who enjoy (or lament) Taylor’s penchant for “wordiness” this song is an early example of her ability to fit a lot of syllables in a lyrical line without it seeming awkward. The imagery is vivid in that TS “illusion of specificity” way. And together with the production, it makes me want to dance and spin around like a girl in a brand new dress. Ultimately, I find this song one of the best examples for how TS “makes us feel things” without doing *too much*.

A magnificent song!

Favorite lyric: Back to a first glance feeling on New York time //
Back when you fit my poems like a perfect rhyme
(Which is, of course, a perfect rhyme)

Instrumental: 10/10

Rating: 13/10 ♥️

20 years ago, Taylor’s first-ever single, Tim McGraw, was released (ahead of the release of her Self-Titled album). And now Taylor Swift is the one being namedropped in songs to connect generations…

Did you hear this song on the radio and immediately become a fan?

As someone who never heard this song until two years ago, and who became a TS fan only 2.5 years ago, I’m so curious what it was like being a fan in the “debut” era. Share your stories here!

Are you excited for the speculated arrival of “Taylor Swift, 20th Anniversary Edition”? Do you hope Taylor goes old school and releases some TV “lead singles”? Do you hope for Tim McGraw TV feat. Tim McGraw?

It has become clear that the alt-right movement is using hate for female celebrities like Taylor, Megan Markle and others as a pipeline to funnel women to them and radicalize them. They work in the same way as the “redpill” movement in “meeting people where they are”, in this case mocking/“critiquing” female celebs who have a long history of “organic” hate against them to draw people to their content through the algorithm.

We see this with people like Candance Owens (the origin of “girlboss too close to the sun”) and also the tweeter in the image above. Her many other tweets (now deleted from what I can find) are straight-up MAGA propaganda.

This isn’t at all the only way women are or can be radicalized online, but it is much more effective than people realize. Every time one of these “haters” interacts with tweets like the above, they help bring more and more alt-right content in their algorithm.

People are invested in their absolute right to be nasty about celebrities online, but the thing is, it’s mostly not the celebrity themselves who is damaged by this, but normal people.

What do you think?

I Knew It, I Knew You Were Trouble mashup when?

Today’s song was the third single from Red, which peaked at 2 on the BB Hot 100. It was a radically different sound for TS, with dubstep influences on the Martin/Shellback production. This may have turned off some fans at the time, and/confused them, but that didn’t prevent the song’s success.

There’s not a ton to analyze here, but I like this song a lot! It’s a beat, it’s catchy, it’s a dancey track, it’s an interesting concept and, as we now seem to be talking about lyrics, a “mature” one as the singer blames herself for not realizing this dude was a total loser! (As you might guess, I have real issues with this new little discourse talking point).

Maybe the legacy of this song is the viral “screaming goat” video, which is just another example of that supposedly non-existent “cultural impact” of TS. Even 14 years ago in the olden days pre-Toktok people were memeing on TS MVs. (The video of Taylor good-humoredly reacting to the goat video is very cute). The MV itself is… not among her best and the hilariously serious and lengthy intro is best fast-forwarded thru.

The performance of this song on the Eras tour has the honor of being my least favorite choreo of the whole show. Just boring! Should have been mashed up with WANEGBT or something.

Imo this song is over-hated by its haters. Not her deepest or indeed her most fun song, but it’s good!

Favorite lyrics: And the saddest fear
Comes creepin' in
That you never loved me
Or her
Or anyone
Or anything

Instrumentals: 6/10

Rating: 7/10

Hello Nuancing! Please comment below with any questions you have for Angela about the podcast, Taylor Swift or other related topics. Angela will be able to check in variously throughout the day and respond so don’t worry if your question isn’t answered immediately.

If you have a comment that’s not related to a question or response, please keep it under the Mod “Off topic” comment below.

(It goes without saying but any comment that violates Reddit or sub rules will be immediately removed.)

Thank you so much, Angela, for joining us today!

What song does this image represent for you? Or Eras tour mashup, if you prefer?

Taylor’s family was in the audience. The belief her parents had in her at 13yo is such an important part of her success and an inspiration to me, at least, as a parent.