trying a new format, the text is a bit hard to fit on the page,
but it might be easier than scrolling up to read the slide after reading the post.
P.S i don't necessarily have "Paecheon > Bangho" it's just for the tiering sake,
I don't rank Bangho besides above Kenjo.
Not necessarily saying "Vin Jin has black bones and UI!" but more that he might be related to like ancestral DNA similar to the Yamazaki whether it's like a Yamazaki ancestry, or that Mujin is like a distant cousin to Shingen, I think it is fundamentally true, that they resemble each other A LOT.
not only this but Vin Jin and Gitae have very similar behavior, similar depiction of like that "manic" Gun like energy (Which we know comes from Yamazaki Genes)
The fact that Mujin Jin seemingly has despair, based off the black smoke identical to Gitae's on his shoulder.
The fact that Vin Jin, Shingen, and Mujin, and Gitae all look identical in fact you may not of noticed, but on that picture, I actually put Vin Twice that isn't Gitae below the Shingen picture
and that Vin Jin and Gitae have almost a 95% level accuracy in jaw line, and overall facial structure, with Gitae differentiating from Vin Jin by mostly what could easily be chalked up to age.
Before we get the "Well it's just same face syndrome"
we can tell the difference between Sinu, Eli, and Daniel despite them looking very similar in many panels.
Gitae, Shingen, and Vin Jin have VERY unique faces, other characters with strong jaw lines do not resemble Shingen, Gitae or Vin Jin.
not only this but hairlines nearly line up
jawlines almost perfectly line up
the lips and nostrils are a 95% match
hair texture, and overall curl factor, also is a major match.
It also could make sense narratively, considering that
The Shaman and Mujin seemingly have a large connection from a young period of the Shaman's child hood, considering Mujin is connected to the Shaman's childhood crush.
Despite that the Shaman is somehow connected to the Yamazaki to such a point, that he can recruit the main Yamazaki faction.
Not only that but the Shaman knowing about the red paper, and Mujin having it.
Mujin having this weird strength level, that we know derives from bloodline for a majority of individuals, unless you're like Johan, and it's stated that Vin derives his strength from his bloodline.
so what is Mujin's bloodline? is he a pure yamazaki? No, not exactly my theory.
It is more likely that in the same way that the Magamis are related to the Yamazaki by distant blood, just not by direct blood. it's very likely that Mujin might be akin to that, in a similar manner, if not that Mujin's family are ancestors to the Yamazaki.
I think that the it would be likely that Mujin's bloodline has innate physical strength akin to the yamazaki, a more grip strength based genetic line, and that Mujin's bloodline comes with the sadism and violent nature as the yamazaki, without necessarily things like Reverse Eyes, or Black Bones, as those are mutations in the main line, and likely are the reason the "Yamazaki" are called the "Yamazaki" instead of "Magami" or such.
"Incheon Daniel vs HFW Daniel" seems to be a self explanatory topic
"HFW Daniel is stronger because he grows his path, therefore, we should just say Incheon Daniel is weaker" However there are many flaws to this.
the main flaw is Fatigue.
he takes major damage from numerous opponents, including Changyi Seo, Baekgun, and most importantly Gitae Kim before he uses his path against Gitae Kim, not only this but Changsu Oh stabbed his metacarpals with reebar, and then he makes it bleed profusely by pulling it out
not only this but Daniel tires himself by using Kishin Seiken, and fatigues himself from using Path against the Jeolla Kings.
the Metacarpals are very important because Jinyoung's thumb fatigued him massively due to bloodloss, but the metacarpal would be far more blood loss.
we see this specifically is stated that Path users experience fatigue,
Jinyoung says that he's fatigued when fighting Gitae Kim, his path allows him to fight strongly against Gitae, but he's fatigued and getting more fatigued as the fight goes on,
Johan is also fatigued when using his path when fighting Gun Park, and his conviction allows him to fight further but it doesn't fix his stamina.
Gun Park's injuries in HFG were so bad, that he weakened despite having no fatigue or pain.
But obviously, you may go "But Daniel's Path grew!" therefore he can't be weaker.
However...
He was stronger prior, we see that prior he could see 4 weak spots at a time on the Jeolla Kings, and can read their attacks and attack back, despite it fatiguing him.
However when starting his fight with Gitae Kim, he can see five of his weak spots, and then when he gets injured by Gitae Kim, he can't see any weak spots, and then his attacks don't even work anymore on him, and then when he grows he can only see one weak spot on Gitae Kim.
and despite attacking that weak spot, he doesn't get fatigued as much as he did against the Jeolla Kings.
The path doesn't increase your stamina
so every time he uses path, it decreases his stamina, making his path weaker.
(To briefly counter a point)
The Jeolla Kings are obviously not stronger than Gitae while both are just standing there, I think that it's obvious that the reason Daniel can see one weak spot for each Jeolla King is because of the amount of them, not because of their strength.
I think that if one Jeolla king at a time, he'd see more than one weak spot, because they'd logically have more weakspots or equal weakspots to Gitae Kim, who Daniel considers unbelievably strong.
So it makes more sense, that Daniel is able to see 4 to 5 weak spots, max, and that when he gets fatigued, he's unable to see more than one weak spot.
Which to bring up this, that Daniel with Kishin Seiken gets tanked by Paecheon Jo, while his regular path attacks stagger Paecheon Jo badly.
During his battle with Paecheon Jo, we see he can do both dodge, and attack.
the usual interpretation of this is that Paecheon Jo is far less durable than Gitae, because Gitae can seemingly eat the exact same shots from Daniel, while Paecheon Jo seemingly takes major damage from these shots.
However I'm going to counter this by bringing up that
Daniel's physical condition is awful, and the only attack that impressed Gitae, prior to UI OG Daniel is Kishin Seiken, the only attack that actually impressed Gitae, and the only attack that Daniel says actually pierced Gitae's body.
while his path attacks seemingly did minimal damage, but we know that Path Attacks are FAR superior to Kishin Seiken or regular copies.
so how can it be that Daniel is hitting Gitae with path attacks, and not being nearly as impressive as Kishin Seiken. well here's the basic argument.
Daniel's attack on Gitae that hits his weak spot, can't be a crisis strike, because it'd fatigue him, as I said that his path doesn't increase his stamina, it lowers it, so if he used crisis strike on Gitae, he'd be fatigued. this point is to be made, that all he did was hit Gitae in the weak spot.
as you can see, because path doesn't increase stamina, the idea of Daniel being able to use his path constantly, after using crisis strike, would imply that path increases stamina ,but it can't even if Daniel had conviction, his physical limitations of his brain and such, would be affected.
so realistically, Daniel couldn't use a crisis strike without dropping to his knees, like he had fatigued himself using 3 weak spots at once against the Jeolla Kings, but he didn't use crisis strike.
(Again proof he can hit your weakspot without using crisis strike)
so because, Daniel is not massively fatigued, despite fatiguing himself constantly,
it can't be crisis strike.
because again...
this daniel is already super fatigued..
constantly fatiguing himself, and already used path
would he really be able to use a move FAR MORE FATIGUING than the 3 weakspots,
that he used against the Jeolla Kings.
but more importantly, due to the fatigue, he can't
read a weakspot and dodge an attack at the same time.
he can either read a weak spot and launch an attack
or
he can dodge an attack but not read the weak spot.
which makes it so this fatigued Daniel cannot actually attack Gitae for long,
because he consistently fatigues himself.
While Incheon Daniel, can both read attacks, and attack at the same time, which makes more sense to how he's able to dodge, and then combo Paecheon without getting caught himself, until Paecheon pulls out Dark Crocodile Strike and leads to Crisis strike.
Which Daniel can dodge and counter with just his vision against Paecheon because he's not massively fatigued yet, but when he uses his five senses, to use crisis strike, it fatigues Daniel massively, because he was using more than his vision.
While against Gitae, he was using his vision the entire time, or else he'd be exhausted instaneously.
so Daniel is using his vision to read Gitae's attacks, he can do that, however he cannot read Gitae's weak spots afterwards, which is why Gitae is completely unimpressed by him, because he can't read both at the same time which basically makes him just a dodge merchant or a once in a million chance, punch merchant if he can land it.
and when he punches Gitae here, if he was using his entire senses to land a crisis strike like he did against Paecheon, it'd knock him out or drop him to his knees immediately instead, he continues to spam dodge.
and again, we know that Daniel could dodge his attacks, EVEN if he was massively fatigued, and we see his eyes tracking the attack, again showing he's using just his vision against Gitae here.
he never uses any other sense, because he's too fatigued to do so, he only uses his vision and sees one weak spot.
while prior to fighting him, he could see 5 weak spots, and was able to dodge his attack, and land an attack.
Fatigue weakens his path. and every time he uses his path, he fatigues himself, so it's getting worse and worse.
so Incheon Daniel,
would be able to see his weakspots, read his attacks, and read his weakspots at the same time, allowing for dodging, and countering, without the need of crisis strike, and would be far superior to HFW Fatigued Daniel.
and there's a good way to prove this outside of what I've argued prior which is the UI OG Daniel thing
UI is a far lesser Amp than Path, narratively we see this because of things like Tom Lee saying the reason Gun is strong because he's got path, not because he's got UI, we see Gun stating that UI would grant Daniel the ability to beat a king, while saying he chose him for his ability for his path.
his path is basically UI but without the anti fatigue, and anti pain.
With gun even commenting that PB Daniel lost to a powerful opponent (Reminder Gun is not aware of how strong PB Daniel is because he doesn't know PB Daniel has gun training)
so when he says "who is this powerful opponent?" he's saying in response to UI Daniel because he doesn't really think Big Daniel is strong without UI, and he says that to Little Daniel.
therefore, when he says like "you must be getting impatient" or what you need is "path" he's saying Path is superior to UI, which makes a ton more narrative sense.
the only reason Path wasn't superior to UI is because UI removes fatigue, and pain, while Path doesn't as shown by all examples prior shown.
but Path can still push your body to it's limit, it can attack superior to UI, as shown by the weak spot shot that Gitae Kim got hit by, and it can predict the future perfectly, while UI cannot.
overall it's narratively consistent that Path is above UI, outside of this one situation, but we see that it's clarified due to fatigue ,and due to Daniel's Path being dysfunctional in the fight against Gitae Kim.
so the only real difference between Incheon Daniel and UI OG Daniel
is that UI OG Daniel wouldn't experience fatigue, nor pain.
however Path Daniel is far superior in precision, and dodge ability, would be able to read any attack, and hit Gitae in his weak spot instaneously, and would have zero gaps in their defense. however they'd fatigue quickly.
while UI OG Daniel wouldn't fatigue quickly, however
the UI OG Daniel that fought Gitae was injured,
and due to TUI Gun we know even in UI, biological injuries, still cause deterioration to one's strength. but
a full health incheon daniel, would essentially be a superior OG UI Daniel...
and that's clear from all the points i've made so far, but in case you didn't read this...
TLDR :
Daniel's massively fatigued, therefore his path isn't working properly, and is weakening as time goes on, the more he uses his path the more fatigued he is, his path doesn't add stamina, therefore he's not able to use crisis strike during the fight with Gitae or it'd fatigue him quickly as much or more as it did prior against the Jeolla Kings, Daniel's path at full power, could read attacks and dodge them and read weakspots at the same time,
while Daniel while Fatigued cannot, Kishin Seiken is superior to Daniel's fatigued path attacks that do not hit the weakspot, showcasing that likely when Daniel was fighting Paecheon the only reason he was doing damage, was because he was hitting weakspots.
and that against Gitae, he never used more than one sense, because it would of fatigued him massively.
concluding that Path is a far superior amp than UI for a combatant, therefore Daniel in Incheon with Path should be superior to UI OG Daniel from HFW.
however Full health Path Daniel from HFW,
and full health Path Daniel from Incheon would be in favor of HFW Daniel.
thanks for reading :3
(I could go more in-depth like how Path isn't a physicality amp, so Path Daniel wouldn't be amped physically by making his path stronger, he'd just be amped stat wise) but I think that's unnecessary to the point made, and I already wrote this once already, and it was too long and not concise enough.
The following post is about Lookism : Chapter 618
the post is about Rei Yamazaki's act on Gapyrong Kim and how it ties to the narrative of the story.
before we start, I want to put a trigger warning and a little brief statement.
Trigger Warning for Sexual Assault and other traumatic events such as Attempted Murder, and such.
If you are a sexual assault victim or you are triggered by that type of dialogue, just skip this post, I don't want to upset anybody, and I don't want to invalidate anybody's feelings.
If you are a sexual assault victim, no matter what type, you are valid in your emotions, and you are allowed to say how you feel about the chapter. If you think it's insensitive or it's traumatic for Gapyrong to be smiling during the scene or for PTJ to write this scene that is valid. You are valid, you are loved, and I never want you to feel invalidated.
But if you are not able to understand nuanced opinions about sexual assault or such, then I recommend skipping this post because you are worth a lot more than the head ache this post may cause you.
Now... if you are still reading, this is your last chance to click off.
About this act with Rei Yamazaki
There's kind of this misconception, that PTJ is using it as "fan service"
so no, just because Rei Yamazaki is attractive, and PTJ draws it in an attractive way,
doesn't mean it's not Sexual Assault...
There are numerous examples of very attractive people being sexual predators, one of the best examples is Ted Bundy who was a very attractive man for his time, according to numerous of his victims, who he would sexually assault, and attempted to murder.
There's many examples of beautiful women who have sexually assaulted children in their lives.
it being drawn in a way that makes Rei look attractive or makes it look "Sexy" doesn't mean it's not sexual assault.
Now onto the next part.
one of the biggest criticisms, is that Gapyrong Kim "smiles"
during the act...
I'm going to quickly preference why even if my next point isn't true, why him smiling is not proof of anything "nefarious" in PTJ's writing.
Victims react differently in many ways, especially in traumatic situations like this.
sometimes people give consent initially thinking that they're okay with the sexual assault because it's an attractive person and they want to have sex, but sometimes they revoke it. it doesn't change that it was originally done without consent. and even if they don't revoke it, the individual they were assaulted by is still a predator for doing it without their consent.
Gapyrong Kim is somebody who has a very different view of life, than anyone you know. Gapyrong Is the type of person to smile when dying at the hands of someone strong, i
He's also the type of person to try to get engaged and married with the first pretty woman he sees, and have her child immediately, it's just who he is. He's just like his son gitae, who sleeps around with multiple women at once.
That's been Gapyrong's one flaw in his character since day one, that he's a misogynistic man, who sleeps around with women, cheats on women, and is sex obsessed or addicted.
This could easily be a moment where we see Gapyrong's "dark side" affect his judgement where he thinks he wants to have sex with Rei Yamazaki because she's very pretty. however he might then realize wait "my entire fist gang is alone outside, what if they can't protect themselves from someone who might appear" "What if Shingen appears?" "I can't protect them!"
But here's my interpretation.
I do believe that Gapyrong thinks with his dick more than he thinks with his fists.
however, I also think that Gapyrong thinks with his conviction more than both.
what do I mean by this?
well PTJ has been consistently setting Gapyrong to have a direct parallel to the Yamazaki...
Off bat, him and Shingen have a direct parallel, and then he's the one who changes Elite's mind on what strength is. that if you're already working to the world's rules, then you're submitting to the world, and that the world should "Submit" to you.
in the same idea, Gapyrong shocks Jinyoung when says that "if his fists don't work, then he'll use his feet, and if his feet don't work, then he'll use his head, and if his head doesn't work he'll use his teeth to tear them apart.
Which is a direct parallel to a famous quote about Kyokushin Spirit - Conviction
If your right hand doesn't work, use your left. if your left hand doesn't work, then use your legs, if your legs don't work, then use your head. and if nothing else works... Then CURSE your opponent, go to any length to win no matter what, just prove that you gave it your all,
"That is what's required to be the strongest"
This is also important because Yamazaki are known for practicing Kyokushin specifically.
and the reason is because Yamazaki live by the same code of Kyokushin
the idea that "The strongest don't give up until the very last breath"
and that Gapyrong and the Yamazaki both have the idea that "The world should submit to me"
let's actually go into what it means to be "Submitted" In the Yamazaki culture.
Gun can be basically weaker than an opponent but unless there's zero way to win, he won't give up in a fight, he'll fight even with a broken body, if there's even a chance at winning and this is the mentality of the strongest man, the mentality of Kyokushin.
So the point being made is that Gapyrong's conviction is a Yamazaki's conviction.
he has the same spirit of kyokushin
he has the same desire to make the entire world submit to him.
it's very similar, and Gapyrong himself is the type to be reckless and do things to prove he's capable of what he wants to do.
for example, Gapyrong has no reason to believe he's going to survive drinking a poison, but he purposely drinks poison to say "if I am not the savior of the world, then I would die here..." So I will test fate by drinking this poison without a doubt in my mind that i'll be fine.
he has an unbelievable self belief, in making even fate itself submit to him, that's what Gapyrong Kim is, that's his "manly" conviction, that's the same type of conviction the Yamazaki have.
This also why Rei Yamazaki, then says what she says.
Rei says "My father passed away smiling." So it's okay, he wasn't disgraced.
Yamazakis rule through strengths, and SUBMIT to strengths, they're happy to be submitted, when submitted, but rule until then.
A Woman in the yamazaki don't have to be submissive to the men, because they themselves have ways to submit the men in the yamazaki, for example she says she didn't acknowledge any man in the yamazaki, meaning she never felt that desire to conquer someone in the yamazaki, she never felt like ruling over them. But Gapyrong was so strong, she felt the desire to make Gapyrong Kim submit.
This is no different than Kenzo or Shingen trampling over civilizations to make others submit, or Gitae grabbing Jinrang by the throat and saying "Submit to me" Yamazakis commit violence to make others submit, because they believe the world should submit to them.
Takuya makes Koreans submit, by making them feel inferior despite being stronger, due to his status as a japanese man in the japanese culture.
Kenzo makes people submit, by trampling on them
Shingen literally devours the world because he desires to make the world submit to him
It's a yamazaki's desire to make things they think should submit to them, submit to them.
but they don't just go out crushing tiny butterflies, because they can, they crush what they want to crush.
Someone like Takuya doesn't desire to trample civilizations but desires to make Elite submit, by not pouring him a drink.
someone like Gapyrong doesn't desire to trample civilizations, but makes the world submit to him, by defying the traditions of everything he's in.
from Japan's drinking culture, where he gets Takuya to pour him a drink
when he gets Tom lee to believe in himself, when he tells Elite that he's submitting to the world, and that he can stay that way or grow.
so just like Kenzo, Gapyrong Kim is one who submits to strength, and submits through strengths.
Strength isn't just "physicality" or combat ability, Rei's poison is considered strength, Gun's strategy to exploit the UI weakness is strength, etc.
Gapyrong is being submitted by Rei, she in her mind is making Gapyrong submit by forcing him to have her child, whether he wants to or not. she's conquering this man.
I believe Gapyrong Kim could be smiling because he himself is admitting he's been submitted by a strong woman, and that he acknowledges her due to his "Yamazaki" esque nature.
or Gapyrong is smiling because he's actually defying her submission, if he enjoys it, then she hasn't actually dominated him because she's trying to conquer him, and prove to be the victor.
This depends on the next chapter, on if Gapyrong admits his only loss. which I think is very possible.
or
Gapyrong retorts that "How could this submission, could you consider an opponent who wilingly lets you beat him, really be beaten?"
and then Rei will retort "You couldn't move even if you wanted to..."
and then Gapyrong uses overcoming, and somehow overcomes the poison (Not too crazy Hansu can do that with his conviction)
and we see Gapyrong prove he's actually perfectly capable of stopping Rei but is letting her try, because he wants to prove he's actually not submitted to essentially make her admit "Even though you killed my father, even though I poisoned you" you let me do it... you not only drank the poison willingly, but when poisoned, you let me do it... I didn't conquer you...
"you conquered me..."
So my point is, that Gapyrong smiling isn't meant to be "Gapyrong is lucky" it's meant to be a moment of seemingly two "yamazaki" like conviction clashing against each other, this isn't really about sex for Rei Yamazaki, and it's not really about sex for Gapyrong either, sure Rei is pretty.
but don't you think if Gapyrong wanted to have her child, he would of just done it like he did numerous times prior, where he just suddenly drops to his knee and proposes and says he will name their child "Kitae Kim"
he had an entire conversation, and time to do so, he would of if he wanted to do it.
he didn't because he didn't want to.
but onto the final point I will make
Sexual Assault in many cases isn't about how a predator found his or her victim "attractive" but it's many times about dominance, it's many times about power.
This is perfectly reflected in Rei Yamazaki's mentality, and how the Yamazakis act.
and it's also perfectly demonstrated that Gapyrong Kim is either
admitting her power, which is what a Yamazaki does when defeated, although I want to push back and say "Really? would gapyrong actually submit without even trying to break out?"
or
He's testing her dominance and saying "Yeah you tried to dominate me, but now you look like a fool, who just wants to have sex with me, and for Rei, once it's no longer about her winning over the only man she acknowledges..." It's no longer worth it.
the same way Gun will fight to enjoy his fight against the 2nd generation, but the moment they make it clear they're not there to fight him, and they're there to get the red paper safe. He lost all interest in the fight...
p.s I do not condone any sexual acts, and Gapyrong Kim being a weirdo who's trying to conquerors haki clash with a sexual assaulter, isn't something all victims should do to prove their strong. you're not weak if something like that happens to you.
Gapyrong just has an insane mentality, that he thinks you're not strong if you can't do this, this and that. That's his entire character.
No one is wrong for smiling during a situation like that, no one is wrong for wanting it briefly but then revoking it, and even if you were to enjoy it, and then condemn it later, that's also not wrong.
Don't blame victims for how they react to the assault.
If there is no consent, and there is no way to stop the act, then it is sexual assault...
to be clear
Gapyrong saying he wants his kid to be named Gitae Kim is not proof of consent, nor would it make it not sexual assault.
the reason it is sexual assault is because she didn't ask before starting the act.
meaning there was no consent.
not only this but she would do it even if Gapyrong said no.
not only this but Gapyrong Kim is drugged and unable to stop the act if he wanted to.
(at least until he uses overcoming to break out of the poison possibly after the act)
it's only consent if asked before hand, only consent if you are able to revoke the consent. if you handcuff somebody, and don't agree to unlock it, if they say "I don't want to do this anymore"
you are a predator, you have committed that crime...
So no, it's not "Gapyrong was lucky"
and it's not "oh it's not sexual assault"
it is sexual assault
Gapyrong didn't consent
it's just that Gapyrong is paralleling the Yamazaki and
trying to challenge Rei at the same level of her battle spirit,
and desire to make Gapyrong submit.
I will not be arguing in the comments about this much. I don't care to engage with anything that resembles anyone trying to defend this as if it's not Sexual assault...
Thank you for reading, and I really hope that I kept it digestible.
I'm going to be fully honest with you...
The 10k Commanders... individually solo the Trio...
Let's first scale each of the Trio...
we'll talk about the Swordsman - Kenji Goda
He does a big slash, destroy weak old house with slash.
Now I'm gonna quickly just kill this argument before it gets big
"destructive capacity does not apply to inverse scaling"
Vasco's wrecking ball feat is canonically close to the same level of tons of tnt.
Uh so onto the inverse scaling.
I'll be honest on FIRST GLANCE, that Elite dodge is NASTY the guy turned into Mist and appeared behind ELITE?! that's CRAZY right? that's how it should be read...
Except... is this random executive from Gen 0, so fast, that he can see IA? or even possibly faster than base OVC Gapyrong?
because if you think he actually was able to after image blitz Elite, then like he's massively faster than Gapyrong and wields a blade that can slash with small building lvl with air pressure.
So? I guess he just beats Gapyrong? (I'm joking I'm showing how silly the argument is)
Now onto the other parts, he kind of gets 1 shot by Elite from like across the map... like the guy's standing a good 20 feet away, and "BOOM" 1 shotted.
So I think you can just admit, that this guy would never be considered an "Elite" in any context, especially in context of Gen 0 strength. since he got you know across the map tomahawk by Elite holding back with one kick.
cool dodge though I Respect it for a weaker gen 0 character.
So most you can argue is that like
he can dodge a massively holding back Elite punch and has like HFBD Vasco tier AP, and might get upscaled if we see current musashi against somebody besides Elite. but honestly he's just kind of a lost case with no real good scaling..
Onto the next
Magami Kyokushin - Takeshi Saejima
(I'm biased for THIS GUY because he's a magami kyokushin practicioneer and I like kenta)
Jinyoung while holding back massively, just kind of punches the guy once, pushes him and then kicks him. and the guy goes "RAH! I blocked it!"
and then he uses his big unique skill combo, and Jinyoung goes "RAH! I blocked it!"
and then Jinyoung uses the same exact unique skill and like murders the guy...
So uhh not much relativity here... the most you can argue is like above basement hulk? I think? probably...
(I'm gonna be honest using his kyokushin to tank some unknown level of Jinyoung) and then getting one shot is very unscaleable, but it shows that he has zero scaling to any gen 0 top tier. probably above basement hulk? (Phase 1 tho)
Now onto the third.
Reiji Madarame - The Iron Wall (Yeah bitch I'm using his epic title that totally wasn't taken by a Kojima brother like 3 months later)
ahem.
Yeah, I won't lie Reiji kind of put hands on Tom Lee, HOWEVER let's be fair with the story...
Tom Lee is canonically distracted by the love letter, and if we've read Lookism we know how difference distractions make your scaling, even down to your durability.
a perfect example is when Jerry Kwon fought Huseong Ha
So with this information, I want to then apply this to the Tom Lee fight basically saying yeah it's cool, I think once again it shows that Reiji scales above Basement Hulk (phase 1) but would never be compared to any gen zero top tier.
(also this guy got his title snatched by Shigeaki Kojima)
So with feats alone, these guys are essentially at best some unknown level above Basement Hulk (phase 1)
and really I don't think you can say they're above High tiers in Gen 0, let alone top tiers or elites.
So here's why this matters...
James Lee (Who might actually be elite?) (idk jury's still out on that)
says to Gitae Kim that the Dark Crocodile Commanders specifically the 1k Commanders and the 10k commanders are quite strong. saying that the 1k Commanders are strong because they are equal to a thousand individual fighters. while 10k commanders are capable of taking down an entire mansion of first gen kings.
But let's really dig into the dialogue that James Lee has.
Gitae Kim's goal in building this army is to create an army strong enough befitting of the "Underworld King" referring to the same idea of the Yamazaki / what Gapyrong's fist gang could have been.
here's the scans for this
the entire goal is to bring the world back into the gen 0, (Not just the chaos) but literally his desire is to bring back the same conditions that created the monsters in Gen 0 and that's why it's mentioned he's recruiting people for his underworld organization. and this is further elaborated by James Lee telling Goo that he chose Gitae because he's a monster that can be a king of the underworld.
Contextually - James Lee knows of Gitae's goal to bring Gen 2 into Chaos so it becomes like Gen 0, but I think there's also the context that James Lee would bring into consideration, that
Gen 2 is massively talented, so if they suddenly fell into a Gen 0 condition, would probably lead to monsters, which is why James says that Goo is too weak to be the king of the underworld.
(Even though Goo is overall stronger than 99% of The Generation at this time)
James Lee sits down in front of Gitae and essentially says "for your goal, for your forces"
These guys are a MUST HAVE referring to Mugak Wang and Ryu Jaun
one the word "must have" directly imply that for Gitae's goal, they are so capable, that they'd be considered a desire in James Lee's eye rather than a "possible help"
specifically James Lee says that in reference to Gitae's goal, Mugak and Ryu are not only just STRONG, but they're OVERALL elites, which is a word DIRECTLY used to SCALE in Gen 0, and James Lee out of people who directly learned under Elite's care, and MIGHT BE THE GUY.
should be an extremely strong word, in reference to a goal about bringing back Gen Zero.
now... the word is "overall elites" in reference to Gitae's goal + must have + they're Paecheon's "Direct Subordinaes" and Paecheon's "Dark Crocodile" society is STATED by Shintaro to be capable of giving problems to the Yamazaki, and require proper strategy.
Specifically what is said is that
"Korea is weak, it won't take long for us to conquor such a tiny country"
"However we'd rather you not intervene in the war, because we have no harm towards you"
Paecheon says "you're a coward, and the fact you're strategizing so hard against a tiny country such a korea shows how scared of the dark crocodile that you are."
and then
we cut to Shintaro's private conversation and Shintaro says
"I acted submissively because of two reasons 1. I don't want Paecheon to intervene ,so we can easily take down Korea, and then take on China before Paecheon realizes he's been tricked" and 2. "Paecheon is not an easy opponent and he's strong, and his dark crocodile society is strong by correlation"
so Dark Crocodile Society is considered "Top Tier" in terms of pure army power
Shingen and Paecheon are both considered "Gen 0 Kings or Legends"
Ryu and Mugak are both considered "All around elites" In that context to Gen 0
by James Lee and by Paecheon Jo
(also that Paecheon says that Ryu is impressive for dragging out 100% of his base level) which it's impossible to argue any of these yamazaki execs can drag out 100% of Paecheon's base lvl
so yes...
Ryu and Mugak both massively scale above these Lower Tier Yamazaki executives, who only have argumentation to have like essentially 0.10% relativity to unknown levels of holding back Gen 0s, and we see the gap between them based off
Kenzo who is massively stronger, and every single person they "scale" to scale to Gapyrong who scales to Kenzo...
So either they scale to Kenzo, but it was just that they were underestimating the Gen 0 fist members. or they don't scale that high, and Ryu and Mugak both have way higher scaling...
I also want to clarify, that calling them "Overall elites" doesn't MEAN that Ryu and Mugak are on "elite" tier, it just means they're FAR CLOSER to that tier, than any of these executives, James Lee would absolutely never put these guy in the same convo, Paecheon would never go all out against these guys, and they'd never be a "must have" for Gitae's goal...
Gitae's goal is to be SUPERIOR to the yamazaki faction, to do what Gapyrong didn't and conquer what he couldn't (as the yamazaki faction was not disbanded after the fist gang beat Shingen)
Let's talk about it
So Kenzo is of course a new character so of course he's being put in conversations.
Now I don't necessarily blame y'all for putting Kenzo in this conversation, but we got to drop it.
Let's debunk it all
"Paecheon can't cut black bones, he couldn't even cut goo!"
Paecheon is trying to tell Goo to show his full power or else he will be cut down by Paecheon's blade.
Goo then pulls out moonlight
after countering moonlight, and slashing Goo up
he says this
In this context.
Paecheon tells goo to go full power or else he'll get cut up by the sword
Goo then uses moonlight and Paecheon says
it's embarassing and that he thinks that Goo's prior showings were his full power.
Despite this prior to slashing Goo he says this...
Muramasa is KNOWN for cutting black bone.
Paecheon knows this
so when he slashes Goo, he calls him weak
instead of going "WHAT?! MY HWARANG COULDN'T CUT THROUGH HIM?"
"IS HE MORE DURABLE THAN THE BLACK BONES?!"
instead he calls him weak...
like that's simple
so let's stop arguing that... Paecheon was just holding back because he considered Goo weak, and then after that he couldn't land a strike on Goo with 50s
in which Goo with 50s isn't an anti-feat outside of "Gun" (If you can prove Kenzo is above FP Gun) then you might have an argument
but outside of that...
"Paecheon isn't compared to Shingen in strength, only in durability!"
(1. if he's compared to durability, then he has the same scaling as Kenzo's durability)
in which that's the only thing Kenzo has that can be considered impressive, since Kenzo's feat against Gapyrong Kim isn't better than Paecheon's feat against Goo
to clarify on that
One Sword - Holding Back Goo
scales to Prime Tom Lee, according to Prime Tom Lee who says
he wouldn't of been able to dodge the slash from Goo
and that it's not because Tom Lee is old, but because Goo is strong.
specifically the words used are
"if I COULD'VE dodged it i WOULD'VE"
means "if it was probable for me to dodge the attack, I would've"
He then says "if he was in his prime" he's not sure he
"Could've" meaning it's not even considered Probable for Tom Lee to dodge 1 sword Goo in his prime.
Manager Kim then asks if it's because Tom Lee is old and just doesn't remember his prime
and then Tom Lee clarifies, no it's because Goo is just stronger because he's grown up.
so with any form of reading comprehension 1 sword goo is implied to be capable of slashing Prime Tom Lee, and that prime tom lee couldn't dodge it.
bare minimum putting 1A Goo on the same tier as Prime Tom Lee
a one sword goo who was holding back
is likely on the same tier as prime tom lee.
so a HFG Goo with moonlight which speeds up after everystroke by blitz tiers...
would absolutely be above 1A Goo by a massive margin.
Here's a good level of difference.
Just one stroke speeds up
so moonlight goo should be massively above 1A Goo who is directly put in the same tier as prime tom lee.
with prime tom lee saying in his prime, he likely would've been unable to dodge the slash
(Which implies even if prime tom lee popped a unique skill or used his masteries he still wouldn't be able to dodge the 1A Goo slash)
meanwhile
Base OVC Gapyrong scales to Prime Tom Lee directly outside of AP
he's shown to be dripping sweat, and bleeding from his forehead.
Tom Lee hits Gapyrong with two Unique Skills
One headbutt to the face
and four attacks to Gapyrong's legs.
they then clash and then Tom Lee never lands Ultimate King
while Kenzo
hits gapyrong with an uppercut
they clash
another uppercut
another uppercut
another uppercut
a right hook
a left hook
another left hook
an elbow?
a giant barrage (Although Gapyrong is guarding)
but then we see "9" blows hit Gapyrong before he hits the ground.
So Kenzo hits Gapyrong more than Tom Lee does, yet does similar damage.
therefore
Kenzo is not massively stronger than Tom Lee in pure AP
(Now to be fair with Kenzo) this could be a holding back Kenzo, he might have unique skills under his belt, as Tom Lee did use Unique Skills to do a majority of this damage.
Kenzo is also attributed to reading Gapyrong Kim's attacks rather than blitzing him, or being massively faster than him, and instead implied to be relative in speed, but Kenzo has experience who can just read all of Gapyrong's attacks.
Kenzo himself says "Wow Gapyrong for someone who has an impossible to obtain body, without yamazaki blood, you are strong" "but you still don't stand a chance, I have triumphed over tens of million fists" "I can see through all of your damn childish punches"
with Gapyrong, Tom Lee, and Jinyoung all saying that Kenzo is reading his attacks and countering them.
So Kenzo's only attributed to reading Gapyrong's moves.
not once implied to be MASSIVELY faster than Gapyrong.
(it's fine if you think he is faster than Gapyrong) but there's no proof it'd be a massive gap like one sword goo to moonlight goo level difference.
so
Kenzo is not a blitz tier above Gapyrong Kim (as of current feats)
Kenzo is not massively stronger than Tom Lee in AP
so then we gotta talk about durability? Kenzo can no sell, Gapyrong's punches, so even if he's relative in speed, and relative in AP to Tom Lee, then he still has a massive level of durability, that would still put him in the race against someone like Moolight Goo right?
so here's your top issue with this.
Kenzo is durable, I agree.
but it is only attributed to Kenzo's black bones, and nothing else.
it's not implied that Kenzo's black bone is superior to anyone else's, and the way Shintaro says it, is that Paecheon's body is comparable to Shingen's black bones, SO EVEN if Kenzo's bones were special, Shingen's are OBVIOUSLY more special.
not only this ,but Paecheon's indestructible body, was just how he became the 7 continental stars (We see knives unable to pierce his muscles in the panel of his base self that is shown when Shintaro talks about him)
and Paecheon says that since he's become a 7 continental star, he's surpassed even that level of endurance with Dark Blood Technique, which happens because his endurance has reached it's peak.
So Paecheon has higher durability in the narrative than Kenzo, however I know the argument you're going to give.
"But Shintaro doesn't know Paecheon, so how would he know?"
it's PTJ's writing, the same way Gongseop provided the first piece of argumentation for Gitae = James Lee, despite Gongseop NEVER meeting Gitae, while Shintaro at least has met Paecheon.
so
Kenzo is not massively stronger than prime tom lee in attack potency
Kenzo is not massively faster than Base OVC Gapyrong (Slower than Moonlight Goo)
Kenzo is not massively more durable than Paecheon
So what is Kenzo? Experienced right? well... No.
He is experienced, but not more experienced than Paecheon Jo.
Let's explain that
beating Paecheon Jo even if not fully doing it by yourself is enough to put you in the same conversation as having a path to pinnacle, specifically referencing the same path to pinnacle, that the pinnacle of generations have, specifically the same path to pinnacle, that requires a massive amount of experience.
so not only is Paecheon experienced enough to require Path To Pinnacle to typically defeat.
but also that he's strong enough, that beating him implies you might be on path.
Also Paecheon has shown a solid feat of using Dark Crocodile Pierce against Daniel's eyesight (What he was using to dodge the attacks) and triggered the rest of the senses to use critical strike because Daniel couldn't see the attack (Meaning a path user can get hurt by Paecheon if they only have the eye sight path)
So
Kenzo is not massively faster than OVC Gapyrong
Kenzo is not massively stronger than Prime Tom Lee
Kenzo is not massively more durable than Paecheon
Kenzo is not massively experienced to Paecheon
Here's why that is.
Kenzo has ZERO implication that he can break black bone with his attacks yet.
Now if a TUI Kenzo exists who says "my punches can break even black bones"
then still (Break) would only apply to a fracture, but if there was some future feat this could change
but as of now, Kenzo has zero implication that he can break black bone with his attacks at all.
meaning he can't severely damage Paecheon outside of bruising
(Which Paecheon can just regenerate)
while Lethargic Shingen using TUI can shatter Black Bones.
I mean, you can do whatever you want but I'd say it'd be hard to prove this Lethargic Shingen is comparable to a path user considering Path users are always put in the same convo as Prime Shingen and Prime Gapyrong (Even if you wanna say they're stronger)
while this Lethargic Shingen is directly put out of that conversation by Shintaro who says he's not equal to his prime level
while Path users are directly compared to Base Shingen and Base Gapyrong
(in which Paecheon is directly compared to Base Shingen by Shintaro)
and Paecheon is compared to path users.
So it's actually pretty solid that
Paecheon scales to at least a base shingen (Not TUI Shingen) (Not TC Gapyrong)
it's also not necessarily the case that Paecheon is equal to Base Shingen, just that there in a similar conversation to path users, and each other.
While Kenzo has none of that.
Kenzo is arguably a Moonlight Goo victim considering
He's faster than Kenzo.
He's got a blade, while it cannot cut through Kenzo ,he can just cut parts that aren't black bone. such as his stomach and disembowel him.
He's durable enough to take numerous blows from TUI Gun without getting knocked out.
and why is that important?
because Paecheon is just superior to moonlight goo as shown here.
(Which is why Goo uses his new style, because Goo was struggling to defeat Paecheon without it) and was getting injured due to it.
and even after Goo started to use past the four strokes, Paecheon still had unique skills that even slightly could throw Goo off his game. (Which Kenzo could never do based off any scaling he has right now)
So to open the coffin we have the fact that
Kenzo isn't massively faster than Base OVC Gapyrong (not full body)
Kenzo isn't comparable to any version of Shingen, let alone a path user
Kenzo isn't more experienced than Paecheon in any way that's meaningful
Kenzo isn't more durable than Paecheon
Kenzo has no narrative on Paecheon's level
and to put this final nail in the coffin
Nobody who's talking about Paecheon Jo
from Shintaro who compares 7CS Paecheon to Shingen
to Changsu and others who compare Paecheon to Path Users
to Tom Lee who discusses how strong Paecheon was.
nobody even knew that Paecheon Jo was secretly a swordsman... who wields a blade that rivals Muramasa...
meaning...
that even though all you need to beat Kenzo is a base paecheon who uses Dark crocodile pierce which Kenzo has zero way to dodge and just disembowel him.
if we took full power hwarang paecheon...
Hwarang would just slice through his black bones like butter.
and Paecheon would just blitz him horrifically.
now.
I'm going to quickly clarify something...
Kenzo COULD be above Paecheon, if the following is proven.
Kenzo has TUI and it's implied to be on tier with path.
if Kenzo has any feat comparable to the dark crocodile pierce
or if Kenzo gets a direct comparison above a path user
for example if kenzo goes TUI
and it's shown or said by Shinji like
"Even a perfect Path user would have trouble with my brother in his TUI state"
outside of that?
nothing he can do in the next chapter is going to put him above Paecheon Jo.
Why are people arguing Kenzo is above Paecheon Jo?
there's no reason to think this... like at all?
Kenzo has no feats above Paecheon Jo...
and please don't come to me with "Jake Kim punch go brrrr"
Jake hits hard... the guy nearly put a hole into Gun's abdomen
when Gun was using endurance mastery and bracing for the attack...
and this version of Gapyrong has no good "AP scaling" that's
provably above Jake Kim's full power punch that hit Paecheon Jo...
