u/Digibunny

Putting some numbers out there for those looking to get an Aero, and unsure about how much headroom it gives them.

Sample paramaters of the run:

• Rider weight 220 +/- with gear, and a backpack with groceries.
• Temperature a little over 90 degrees F
• Dry conditions, little to no wind, Sunny. Good visibility.
• Uphill, 30mph speed limit, wide suburban streets with intersections every so often. Wide enough to fit two cars comfortably side by side in the same lane. 4 way stops every few blocks.
• Sidewalks are wide, multi-use paths.
• Pilot Street 2 tire

Practically this means:

• 25 is probably the speed I feel safest going under good road conditions without ever tripping the 20% safety margin alarm, up to probably 60% battery.

• 28 is possible, but it's simultaneously "Not fast enough to be worthwhile" and "Too risky to keep doing for extended periods".

• 20 is it's happy cruising speed where I don't have to be concerned about PWM at all, regardless of terrain, until maybe bottom 20% battery, at which point I might occasionally trip the 20% safety margin.

• 20 miles of range minimum under these riding conditions.

• 25 miles on average if riding at a happy 20 most of the time.

• 30 miles is possible if one rides very slowly. ( 10 mph, gentle acceleration, seated. )

For US Suburbs, you end up needing something like a Lynx to be able to keep up on streets that don't have bike lanes or sidewalks, and not being concerned about overpowering the wheel. I specifically chose a time where traffic on this street was minimal before running the test.

By the same token, you could ABSOLUTELY get away with so much less than an Aero if you're committed to being a sidewalk/path rider and never sharing a space with cars.

Because I can't reply with videos to a thread that asked.

Aero being pushed up.

Have the tire make contact with the surface, then gently push forward on it as if you were accelerating.

I realize the video makes it look like I'm manually lifting it what with grabbing both handles, but that's just me making sure it doesn't veer off to a side. The wheel did all the actual lifting.

In the same style as this post. This post is intended to be useful information for someone looking in from either outside EUCs, or for anyone considering the V8 in particular.

This is the V8S, the EUC this post is about.

This is the Climber, the scooter.

Rider and Environment

• 220lbs +/- with gear and groceries.
• Up and down hills.
• Primarily sidewalks next to 40mph speed limit roads. Some 20mph residential streets.
• Tire pressure at 40psi

Price comparison

• They're about the same. 600$ at the time of posting, brand new. I'd go on to say the V8S will probably cost you more overall if you don't have the gear to ride safely at speed ( i.e. full face helmet, wrist guards, shin guards, elbow protection), and WANT to ride with that gear on.

Speed and Acceleration comparison

• Climber wins. It's much, much easier to just jam your thumb down and rocket from a dead stop to 20, then maintain that 20 on flat ground, without the V8S' constant fear in the back of your mind, that you can and will overpower it if you try to do the same.
• For the example run I did in this photo gallery, I tried to maintain what I felt was a safe, comfy speed on a wide sidewalk devoid of people. I did hit tiltback once through habit born from a more powerful wheel.
• EUCWorld would regularly update me during the ride, and I'd be anywhere form 12 - 14 mph depending on if I was accelerating from a stop checking for cars, to midway through the long straights.

Range Comparison

• Climber (500wh-ish) gets me maybe 18 miles before I feel like it's not worth going back out. By the 15 mile mark, my average speeds drop to 15mph, and it's time to limp home.
• V8S (700wh-ish) consumed about 30% of battery on a roughly 8 mile round trip. Could maybe do that ONE more time, but then I'd be worried about it being able to carry me safely on uphill portions faster than walking speed as the charge drops.

Portability comparison

• V8S. No contest.
• I imagine the photos will be more than sufficient for scale and comparison.
• It's 10lbs lighter than the scooter. All the mass is in one place, directly below the designated carrying handle, so you don't have to awkwardly fold and manhandle the whole mass looking for a comfortable grip.
• Even when the wheel is off, you can just tilt the trolley handle towards you, then push it along for greater control. It's a little more difficult, but at no point did it feel like the trolley would break or that I was being stressed to push or turn it with me.

Terrain traversal

• Again, surprisingly, V8S.
• On dry sidewalks, paths, and streets, minor imperfections are a complete non issue. In fact, it takes it SO much better than the scooter. Dips and undulations on a street, rougher patches of asphalt, even speed humps you'd find in shopping plaza parking lots, are all handled by the V8 with no drama.
• Sand or loose dirt however, I'd give to the scooter. Less tendency to feel like it's going to drift, if the patch of questionable terrain is larger than a quick patch.
• Mud ends the same way for both of them. It sucks to ride through, sucks to have to deal with after the fact to get home, and sucks to clean out. Avoid mud like the plague and assume patches of dirt are deeper than they appear, and are out to get you.

Who is telling me this

• Hi. 2000 Miles on an Aero as my first wheel, 220lb rider, +/- when you account for gear.
• Hilly area. The kind that makes electric scooters start to bog down if they're not wound for torque, are single motor, or are just "Budget" scooters.
• I use "small" wheels ( These things are not "small" in an absolute sense if you're coming into this hobby as an outsider) because I want a minimal footprint that a scooter cannot give me when I arrive at my destination.
• I primarily ride on shared use paths, sidewalks, and only get onto the street when it's slow 20mph-ish residential areas, where I'm not holding people up.

So, what? Why don't I want it?

I'll take a stab at possible reasons you might want one, because I initially thought I'd want a V8 for probably similar reasons. Then tell you why that's probably not a good idea.

"It sounds super light! 35 lbs seems pretty good!"

• And it is. Except it's still a hefty, bulky thing to have at your side constantly. Dismiss any delusions you have of just intentionally holding it in your hand for prolonged periods, like a briefcase. You're trolleying it.
• You can DEFINITELY carry it easier than most PEVs ( Except I guess skateboards?) but if you're thinking of hucking it into overhead compartments, there's going to be some grunting, and you'll want a nice clear space around you.
• And if this is the case, a 55lber wheel isn't too different. You're still gonna grunt to lift it. Unless you physically cannot do lift it at all, just go for something with more gumption, for the reasons I'll list below.

" It's a 'small' wheel, but it's got 1000W! And it peaks at 2000W That's enough for me! Scooters have that and go pretty fast! 22mph top speed seems legit! "

• I'm sure you could, eventually, get very comfortable with the V8, and know exactly how far you can push it to approach 20s. But for the first 6 miles I rode it, the V8 made uncomfortable audible motor noises chugging along at less than 15 mph.
• The very thin bicycle sized tire diameter was also extremely sketchy to adapt to. It felt almost like it would "slip" sideways when trying to go straight, and when you actually try to turn, it would abruptly dip to the side. Imagine if you had an analog stick that had a a huge unresponsive deadzone, then suddenly snapped to a cardinal direction. It's that, but between your feet, holding you upright.
• Now imagine that, but you have to ride through loose gravel or sand. Or a mud patch.
• Compare this to the Aero, which, while it doesn't come with a PS2 Tire by default, still has a MUCH wider hybrid tire stock, and for the most part you'll only hear the tire making noise against pavement and the wind rushing past until you eventually hit beeps. I'm certain that if I had started on this, I'd have taken much longer than a week to learn from difficulty and fear of overpowering the wheel.

"46 miles range tho!"

• It's not getting that. I'm 220lbs, rode at less than 15 mph, on an up and downhill path for 6 miles. Battery went from 75% to like, 50%.
• And that battery performance will only get worse as the charge goes down. The Aero gets me a solid 15 miles in the first half of it's battery, but peters out at 10 more miles, giving me 25 miles on average traveling at mid-low 20s, before the battery gets too low to be practical to go out again, and I have to call it.
• The Aero has a little over 1000wh for battery capacity. The V8 has about 75% of that, and will likely get 20 miles or less of range, if you can comfortably cruise at 15.
• On top of this, it charges at 1.5A. In comparison the Aero charges at 5A, and fills up in 2 hours, balancing and all. Enjoy waiting...6 hours? Before you can go out at maximum range again on a V8.
• Oh, also no Smart BMS. I only know it's total voltage without ripping it open and checking each cell to see if something's going wrong, and if it's now a safety risk. Assuming I knew how to do that. Which I don't. Gonna bet you don't either.

"It's cheap. I don't want to drop a grand on an unknown. "

• Yeah, fair enough. But, consider:
• You're entrusting your safety to a self balancing, single wheeled device, that relies on having an excess of power to not have you fall on your face through trying to accelerate beyond it's means. Maybe don't go minimum viable product.
• You're new, so you're at the point where you have as little experience balancing on these things as can be. You'd be selecting super hard mode by picking the skinniest tire with an aggressively tippy shape.

"Fine, anything else you think I'm going to care about?"

• There's no Kickstand. There's no "Hold on, park for a second, I gotta do something real quick" button. You're either standing there with it on, or turning it off and resting it against a wall whenever you have to do something that isn't ride.
• EUCWorld ( An app that you can connect EUCs to that shows things like speed, battery, temperature, etc) doesn't show me a tangible PWM, or Safety margin. So, I have zero indication of how hard I'm pushing it on average, until it starts tilting me back. I don't know how close I am to the edge at any given time, especially when the battery level drops and this safety margin decreases. So I have to baby it and watch my speed, guessing how much headroom I have left. If a headwind hits me, or I suddenly have to go uphill, you bet I'm slowing down immediately.
• I'm not confident you can actually sit on this thing at my weight. There's naught but an arch of plastic supporting your ass's mass. That's still the same bit of material supporting you if you put a seat on it so it doesn't press hard against your nethers. Gods help you if you hear it *crack*, because now your main carrying handle is compromised. This makes extended rides sore on your feet.
• Hey speaking of plastic? You're almost CERTAINLY dropping this thing. Multiple times. Especially if it's your first wheel. I wouldn't be surprised if you total the exterior shell from accumulated blunt force impacts without padding it up.
• Trolley's wobbly. Minor gripe, but it's a thing.
• Stock pedal is kind of slippery. And I'm saying this when it's dry, and I'm wearing these shoes. I don't envy you when it's wet, or your feet are wet, or you stepped in mud. Not the most confidence inspiring thing.
• You'd think because it's slower, you can get away with less gear. Nah fam. I was more nervous on it than I was gearless on the Aero moving at 6mph.
• Just generally, even if the Aero costs like 4x as much, I do genuinely believe it's also 4x the wheel in terms of safety margin, confidence, comfort, and ergonomics. Cruising at 20s instead of 10s doesn't SOUND like a huge difference, until you try it and are constantly on edge on the V8, while you can lazily wiggle around on the Aero and feel very in control regardless of speed.

Okay but I still want the V8 tho

• If you can get it second hand, for below 400? 300? Sure, I guess? You can do what Fromsoft masochists do and git gud eventually. I can't say it's going to be a pleasant experience in good faith.
• If you're buying it NEW? Even at the "Discount" sale price it seems to always be at? Yeah probably not. This would be an awful first impression for EUCs if you want it as a practical thing
• If it's just a toy and you have money to blow? I'm not your dad, you can make big boy/girl/they/them decisions
• To it's credit, The non suspension nature of the V8 IS legitimately capable of handling things like rough ground, sidewalk lips that connect roads to driveways, the gaps between squares of sidewalk paths, and slightly uneven raised sections of sidewalks. You have to keep your knees loose and relaxed, and you can't BONK into it or you WILL feel it contact the rim, but you can roll over what would otherwise be a jarring bump on a non suspension 10 inch wheel electric scooter.

* Formatting edited to be more readable.

No this is not meant to be practical.

Yes this is very niche.

Premise:

• Do the same thing as this (https://razor.com/powerwing/), but with two wheels, and sized for an adult.
• But with the rear powered, like this (https://www.battleaero.com/collections/drift-kart)
• And not like this (https://razor.com/crazy-cart/), you want to swing the rear, not drag it while you pull the front.
• All of this being done on concrete/asphalt, instead of the 5 second bits of footage where people will hold the wheel in loose sand/dirt and spin it, while not standing on it. ( It's obviously going to skid when there's no weight to push it down, with a terrible surface to grip on. )

Okay but how?

• Solids apparently have comparatively bad grip. I don't know HOW bad is "bad", because people don't do tests in the way this project cares about. They've slipped, but the conditions under which they slip are unclear.
• High torque motors exist for people who don't need speed, but need to GET to that speed quickly. See: Inmotion Climber.
• Said high torque motors can chirp pneumatic tires on takeoff from a standstill. It stands to reason if you accelerate hard enough leaning, AND use a less grippy rear tire, you can get a controlled slide going for a bit, in the same way you can lock the rear wheel and stay on as it skids under the same conditions.
• Most scooters that would have the torque for this grip to matter under acceleration, tend to come with pneumatics by default. So you'd need to either get a typical solid, low power, rear drive commuter and ramp up the power to start a slide, or take a higher performance machine and kneecap it with a rear solid.

So what? what do you want to know?

• Can you put solids on a rim that's made specifically for air? Tubed or otherwise? Or will the rims just not like each other, refuse to stay on, and you'll need to fabricate a rim?
• Are there other specifically torquey single rear motor scooters under 1000$ that may be ideal for this project? The kind of scooter that will lift the front wheel if you gun it without pushing down on the steering column to keep it planted.

But why not just get an actual drift kart / emoto / ebike an drift that around

• Going fast on a slow thing is more fun, and costs less. That's it.

Context:

• Been riding padless for a while ever since my velcro came off. Got used to it, but always felt slightly uneasy about foot placement and lack of brake pads, making me extra cautious about stopping distance, bumps, etc.
• Before velcro failed, was using JUST the brake pads + the generic Beidou pad for the Patton ( Only the toe hook part.) Most comfortable setup I've had to date.
• Before ALL of this, I had a lot of trouble transitioning from Standing -> Seated with the Beidou Aero pads, and Grizzla Flows because they blocked my shins.
• I have tried Powerknobs. They're ALMOST what I want, but they're too wide for locker storage, and I REALLY DO NOT want to keep ripping them on and off my wheel whenever I store it/take it back out, constantly having to futz with realigning them.

Expectations / Goals for these:

• Front ankle stopper to keep me confident that I'm not going to accidentally step off.
• Non-shin blocking structure, so I can squat and stand without needing to open my legs wide.
• Some forward bias, so that I can keep my feet half on the pedal, half off, and give me better on demand acceleration when crouching down.
• Better foot security for more confidence hopping up curbs.
• Modularity, in the sense that I can partially disassemble it without needing to tear the base off to fit it into tighter spaces.

How'd it do?:

• (+) Front ankle DOES stop the foot from going too far forward.
• (-) The plate that screws onto the Aero's body is either too high up, or too far back. I CANNOT squat without my shinguard being obstructed. This leads to me needing to really spread my legs and sit far back, then adjust slightly forward as best I can, which results in an awkward seated position. I don't feel I have enough leverage to accelerate, or hug the wheel lower down because of how it blocks my shins.
• (-) The mount feels REALLY far back. It reminds me of when I first started slapping pads on the Aero after learning how to not fall over, and ride more than 10 feet; it keeps me WAY too vertical.
• (+) Foot does feel secure when jumping up. Much more solid than just the Beidou toe hook part, because it's actually BOLTED onto the frame, so I'm no longer scared that the velcro might peel off with so little contact patch. I keep it not entirely clamped down on my foot so I can easily dismount.
• (+) Modularity is great. See locker photo.

Okay so?:

• Not my thing overall. I value the ability to transition from standing to seated without spreading my legs wide too much.
• At this point I might as well make my OWN toe hook pads, that have a long strip of supporting structure mounting near the bottom of the wheel, while not blocking ankle movement, AND being either slim enough to fit in a locker, or be a 2-part screw system where it can be partially disassembled when space is a concern.

Because nobody shows their wheels parked after they get to where they're going.

So this is for all the folks asking about the Aero, or looking for a "Portable" wheel, but can't describe what "Portable" means with numbers.

It's perfectly happy being rolled under a table. Hell, you could keep it to the side of the bench like you would a baby stroller, and put your helmet on TOP of it so it's not on the table like I'm doing when I'm alone.

Naked, the Aero fits pretty comfortably in lockers. With pads, you'll need 2-2.5 inch wide pads to more readily fit places, or accept that you always have to rip your pads off, then put em back on to store it in a locker.