Have to think about it myself. Note this is not- date/be in a relationship with.
The question is split because "party with" is for people who arent interested in sexy fun time with women, but less "be close friends with" and more "go out ans have fun with"
Not in prison when he has nothing but time to think, prior to that do you think on any given day he actually knows the exact number of people he killed, or is so caught up in his own constant narrative he would have to think about it?
So i thought it might be interesting to jumpstart the real conversation the show wants us to have.
As I wrote before, this season was very meta and directly addressed to all joe\s "fans."
And evem after this season, he still has fans.
I get it. hes good looking, and on some darwinian level, there is something appealing about a ma who will kill and do anything to protet you and your children. Who will make yu the whole world and see you for who you are and who will be passionate and intense and dangerous.
And maybe there's some part of that thats mssing from a lot of men of todays world outside of the evolutionary context in which that devoloped.
BUT
Whats aso being said here pretty explicity is that Joe WONT protect you. As long as you are you are fulfilling his fantasy, it may seem great.
But. That can never last. Because its always a fanatasy, he will get bored eventually, find some other new person because for Joe it isn't about actual love, its the romance. And there's a difference.
Joe loves the idea of the storyboo passion, the beginning of an affair wher ethe world feels new and amazing. but the deeper part that comes later hes not capable of. Because as soon as you are not that fantasy, as soon as you dont fit into his image, he will start t question and wonder. He may "see you" for awhile, but as soon as you see him as anything mor ethen a fantasy, he will feel you betrayed him because he thinks that fanatsy can be suystained forever. Like the immortal vampires. In a good relationship, there's somjething deeper that comes after that.
And I wonder.. if this isnt partially what happens with some women attracted to |bad men." At first its passion and someone who would fight for you and makes you feel alive.
But as soon as that whirlwing dies down and the real world settles in... hell blame you for not being "the one" and start to resent you for failing him.
He'll blame and start to abuse. And the contrast between how good the high was and how bad the low was keeps you hooked. Its part of our psychology. Its how narcissits manipulate people.
Maybe back in hunter gethere days when we were small tribes, the biggest toughest guy was the best bet for successul offspring.
But that guy who would protect you, in modern days if going out of his way to be violent and protective is part of the appeal... well, that person has learned violence is a way to get what they want and a way to keep love. And sooner or later that will turn on you.
And I've mjet women, who came from abusive backgrounds and go for one abusive guy to be "rescued" frtom him by another.
There was this oe girl I met hiding out at a motel. And she admitted, guys who werent like that did nothing for. because when she was abused she learned to associate violence with love. That it was a sign of someone really caring.
I do wonder- how many people who are fans of Joe have expereinces some sort of abuse their past? Who fantasize about Joe as their knight in shining armor, their personal monster who will protect them from the abusers?
Or how maybe even not abuse outright, just shitty men?
The show is trying to make the point- Joe and the guys like him are not "white knights". They are the sbusers. And i real life, they seek out people who they know they can manipulate and control. Its not just that people who have been abused find themselves attracted to that- its that the abusers have a sense for those people. For their "broken bi9rds" they want to protect and save.
Joe's "yous"
Thoughts?
So I really liked season 5. At the start it felt like it was going to be a bit of a retread of season 4. Which though entertaining was also the goofiest season except for the very dark ending when Joe "unites with his shadow" and it becomes impossible to see him as anything more then a monster.
But this season was very good and it was smart writing. The show isnt asking us to root for Joe anymore. Its like the end of the Sopranos, we see him as a monster and are rooting against him.
But the meta was also brilliant. Louise was representative of all the "fans" of Joe who had wathced the show but still fantasized about him. Her entire arc was directly about this, going straight to the end with his commentary about his fan letters.
Everything Joe always was was show clearly to everyone.
The end might have been just a bit too tidy, and joe getting his dick shot off might have been a bit much, but all in all it was a good end to the series, which took on such interesting trips but often didnt feel like it had a deeper message and was just an exercise in nihilism and grotesquerie (and some dark humor)
This season gave the story a proper ending.
Ironically, I feel like in some ways the show was more directed at the kind of women who romanticize figures like Joe then it was at the men who mighr be like Joe. To some extent I could see some men watching it who should be questioning themselvs instead thinking "hey, I'm an asshole, but at least I'm not Joe."
I also liked that while a feminst message, it also directly spoke to something thats a tricker message.. sort of dressing things directly like "mosnter porn" with the idea "we need to fantasize about these things because of men like joe" but also noting that maybe there is something wrong with the culture and not blaming the victims but sort of... like for certain types of people, how they can lose themselves with people they knew are no good and not listen to that voice that says something is wrong.
Some might say Joe is more monstrous then hes ever been, but that nmakes sense, the previous season he literally disassociated, had his "black lodge" moment, and unified with his shadiw self. He embraced his monstrosity wherehas before he ahd tried to deny it and anything sympathetic was gone.
He already had his women who "understood and wouldnt judge him", love, but at that point joe was still trying to belelve he wasnt a killer.
The reality is no women woud ever satisfy his fantasies because they were impossible. Yes, his pathology was routed in trauma, trying to defend his mother and instead scaring her away.
But not everyone responds to trauma in the same way, and Joe became a narcissist. Despite all the unrealistic antics, his narcissim felt realistic as he would have breif moments of clarity, but his vicitm mentality, blaming everyone else, never accepting responsiblity and then tryin to gaslight all felt very realistic for anyone whose known scoiopaths.