u/Emerge-Bud

...played by River Phoenix. Who also starred in "my own private Idaho"

I will be retrieving the treasure shortly.

Hey folks- I don't want to spark an angry argument or agitate old wounds, but I've been somewhat lost as to the background of the sentiment that the FF hunt "ended poorly" or didn't have the best ending.

Amazingly I found out about FF only 6 months or so prior to it being discovered, didn't dive in seriously or have plans to actually hunt for it, but got the basics in time to follow some of the fallout/speculation - that did not include Reddit or discord or a lot of other platforms.

Was it the long period of tenuous disbelief? The prospect that a lurker swooped in and kind of poached ideas? The belief that there were shenanigans on the part of the family? The potential blaze fail?

Or simply that nobody gave ironclad confirmation of the solve?

Would appreciate basic insights from veterans to confirm, elaborate or whatever, bc I'm trying to confirm in my head how JP is/was thinking about BTME.

(I'm also ok to delete this thread if it bothers people too much... Im naive bc I was lucky enough to get FF exposure but be just an observer of the culminating roller coaster.... DMs are welcome if you're willing to share sentiments but don't want to get into a whole thing.)

There are a number of interviews and q&a sessions on YouTube, and JP has given out numbers on amount of solve ideas he's received... I'm perplexed that some of these YouTube videos have only a few thousand views.

Is it possible that some active hunters have not actually watched some of the interviews/Q&As ? That would seem like those people aren't serious- of course there are transcripts and other ways to get the info but intonation and emphasis seems highly valuable

Alternatively are there only a few thousand people who are actually searching in-depth and doing the requisite research?

Or something else?

JP tends to have a direct and clear writing style: clean metaphors and methodical storytelling. But I have always been stuck on the sentence structure in the first sentences of many chapters.

MANY chapters' opening sentences contain odd references and unorthodox structure that both departs from his writing style and seems like they would be flagged by an editor as clumsy, hard to interpret or at least in need of being streamlined.

There are too many to list, but you can't miss them. Some are more conventional, but a bunch are hiding something.

Consider this:

- if you were seeking to embed things, the first sentence of a chapter would be a place where you can exercise editorial structural control.

- perhaps the clunky opening sentences are the ones to look at, or perhaps they're all relevant and some that are more elegant are instances in which coding or hidden info was able to be embedded without making an awkward sentence.

Maybe it's a confirmation piece that is only intended to be deciphered with JP's direction after the treasure is found.

There's something there. Look at those opening sentences and tell me they're not uncanny.

I was largely convinced that the manmade implication was a feature that was perhaps indirectly created by man- a diverted river, a water feature that was created or modified by a dam or other human action. But after reading the JP dialog I'm leaning more towards the "manmade implication" is the shadow you cast - if revealing a clue involves the literal action of creating a shadow that could lead some to believe that is "manmade".

Thoughts?

The thing I remember from the very first time I read the poem was that "near" was both curious and ambiguous.... it would seem like a clumsy direction to say "walk near waters'......" such an amorphous bid of guidance.

This still bothers me even in the context of some compelling theories about what the first few lines mean. If you were planning this out would your first physical direction be to walk near something?

It leads me to one of three:

- it's fitting into a constraint of the poem, structural or coded or whatever
-it's got a different meaning than the first read (like "cast your pole"- fishermen don't say that)
-it's just a way of saying somethig basic and don't overthink it

Thoughts? Does that word choice stick out? Theories?

TL;DR: you gotta trust the whole thing; JP must have good control over this; if you're not 100% certain of your insights/solve you're prob not close; given the odds it's more important to enjoy the hunt than to see the treasure itself as the only payoff; JP's behavior probably says something important about puzzle design

Arguably there's logical disconnect: to participate you implicitly surrender to a belief that the designer created a coherent and fair puzzle. That can't really comfortably co-exist with criticism that he's giving up special info, playing favorites, providing too much, etc etc

Frustration is VERY understandable if you're among a few who has clearly solved some of the puzzle: you'd hope JP doesn't help others catch up. But hey- congratulations on your progress. And it's hard to hear, but the primary point of this is not one person's success, it's an effort to entertain, engage and help people explore. (I get the vibe though- it's like you're winning at soccer and then the refs announce everyone can use their hands. )

To participate you need trust; you also need to trust that the designer (who created software to analyze FF expressions and claims it worked) would avoid accidentally (or intentionally) tipping individual searchers to the treasure, which would lead to a dissastrous ending! (Haters, and even some lovers, are going to hate, best not to give them a good reason)

I'm impressed he's so out there, and not sure how he is so confident - how does he think could he hold his reaction if a hunter blurts out correct solve info, and avoid inadvertently confirming a portion of their solve???

But he HAS to be prepared for that. You should trust that. All this time and fervor would be destroyed unless the find occurs in an honest way. This 1-on-1 and small group stuff runs a risk, if the ultimate finder had unique contact, even if they didn't get an advantage. That said if I were confidently close I'd be trying to get into a conversation to glean some unique vibes from JP. (Unless...)

The bad news (or good news for those of us who don't feel close): likely is if he senses people getting closer, he'll start to recede, which hasnt happened. And it's likely he has a path of providing more guidance as he sees progress slow down. This would be a key planning element for a good hunt: given you can't test run the hunt, you should have some kind of throttle you can use to keep a handle on progress. It's hard (and maybe unethical) to have a break pedal, so you make sure the hunt is 'uphill' and as designer have a few ways to tap the gas.

Also he must just have a REALLY strong sense that he won't be finding himself giving guidance to people inadvertently, or similarly confirming hunt progress by accident. What does this potentially say about design ??

My assumption here is not a good one for the "non-close" searchers: maybe he knows that when you know, you'll know, both for solve and for clues. And therefore if you haven't had a few eureka moments you prob don't have it.

I have a TON of good fragments but no coherent solve progress- I've shared a good amount bc ultimately I got nothing, and since it's a 1-in-a-million for most of us and 1-in-1,000 for the most brilliant and committed hunters, I'm way more likely to get enjoyment from sharing ideas and participating in a dialog than i will from focusing on winning

the biggest clue here IMO is that we should ALL consider the above, Justin's nature of engagement, as we think about the puzzle structure: what kind of solve would fit that type of designer behavior???

Compelled by a word switch here- secrets of the dead seems like a real fit, with some caveats/problems with rules/structure

Double arcs on granite bold

• could be a grave site reference

Secrets of the past still hold

• would be kind of odd and redundant if when you think about it, if referring to the past, as in history
• secrets are kind of always in the past, and unless it's saying "secrets that were formerly revealed become covered again" it is kind of a truism

Beyond the reach of time's swift race

• Simply, a static environment;

-or an area that's unaffected by degradation over literal time, -or time is figurative of something ( like a river for example) and the place is unaffected by that thing

Wonder guards this sacred space

• a burial ground? And it's guarded by something akin to curiosity, reverence, etc.

Couple problems and a big red flag:

1. No manmade objects, or perhaps one that could be construed to be manmade- a grave stone is likely considered manmade unless it's just a big stone that was placed there, could be construed to be manmade but not necessarily

2. Like other problems I've mentioned, bringing a burial ground into play is extraordinarily dangerous and ill-advised for a puzzle designer.... like opening the door for hunters to engage I dangerous or intrusive behaviors, bringing in a burial ground concept could have awful results.

And any area figuratively or literally a burial ground, one that is special and protected, would seem to be dangerous

So even if the above is credible (which is dubious) DO NOT DIG OR DESECRATE ANYTHING.

Should we abandon celestial solves/components?

There's so much potential reference here to night sky, and they offer great opportunities for clues, guidance and somewhat "ai-proof" puzzles.

But...

..... a clear rule is "No hunting at night", with good reason (getting lost, dangerous obstacles, bears, etc)

On one hand there's a lot there, and on the other hand a surge of night hunting based on clues could have tragic results for a lot of people And seems like JP would avoid even a whisper of night stuff.

Thoughts?

The comma in the 6th line of the poem: "round the bend, past the hole" is curious.

It leads me to believe the meter of the poem provides important direction/clues.

If you write out the meter of the poem there are a few anomalies but in that second stanza it's particularly odd- he could have written "round the bend and past the hole" and it would have fit the meter of that stanza exactly. But he chose a comma.

Conventional look: it's an important clue and breaking it into two clauses is just the better way to convey the clue. And any variations in meter are just a means of writing a more coherent poem.

Code/pattern look 1: the punctuation is key: commas semicolons, dashes, periods: they are interpretable (prob can't constitue a cipher bc he said there's only 1)

Code/pattern look 2: the anomalies in the poem's meter are important: here are the words/syllables that break the pattern of the poem:

For (Comma) I -ty (or "T") Where (maybe) Be (maybe) -dy (or "D")

For most of the poem it's stressed-unstressed, but the entire 3rd stanza is unstressed-stressed as is the middle of the 4th stanza. So maybe the "where" and "be-" are not part of it

......Or he had the concept worked out already and put the poem together in a few hours, and deviated from the exact meter to make the poem work.

But that comma is fishy. 4 , I T D ?

Downloaded App for iOS; connected X3. when I go to "import" it lets me select files. but they don't appear on the x3,

when I go to "cloud transfer" it says "checking for cloud tasks" and "no cloud sync records". the bottom says "download app and bind first. which I have already done.

trying this method instead of loading the sd card because someone said books may have better format if they're imported via the app, and some books are badly formatted, missing text and unreadable.

Cipher cipher cipher.

JP's said that the cipher isn't essential to the solve. Also (if i recall) that it is a nod to the container "more than anything" i.e. its highest relevance is just that it hints at the container.

The cipher was SUCH a prominent and involved thing, occupying this huge space visually, and meticulously planned out.

why put so much into something that's just a cute side quest, with minimal value to actually aiding a searcher???

Are clock times the cipher, and also something else that's directive and that we haven't uncovered yet?

Since the cipher didnt need precise times for effectiveness - theres some flexibliity available to layer in another separate information set.