u/General_Wrongdoer_86

I’ve been studying the prosecution’s methods in trial 1 and how they go about trying to convince the jury of the defendants’ guilt. My conclusion is I can totally understand how Pam made it to DA (she’s snooty and I don’t like her but I will explain why) but Kuriyama???

It’s clear that Pam is the better lawyer, she’s much sharper, she is better with words, lays better foundations for her arguments and is therefore more effective at intimidating witnesses. I think she did her absolute best and was probably the best person for the job but just couldn’t prove guilt of first degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt because there wasn’t enough evidence against the brothers. It seems to me that she knew this deep down which is why she focused instead on dismantling the credibility of defence witnesses, especially the expert witnesses and the methods of their research fields. With non experts she’d just try to discredit their experiences and perceptions, e.g. trying to convince Marta that because she saw and stayed with Jose and Kitty so infrequently that what she actually did see re how they mistreated their kids was not the full story. Or she would try to discredit their intentions, e.g. asking witnesses if they’d lie to protect the defendants because they cared about them. She was clearly scrambling because there wasn’t enough evidence to prove guilt so she was trying to disprove the reliability of evidence proving innocence… in a nutshell trying to create a stalemate (which she succeeded in doing, hence the hung jury).

Also, there’s a massive case of cognitive dissonance in Pam because I can see that she is extremely efficient, has a solid grasp of the law and knows how to verbally spar with witnesses (Lyle and Marta rebuffed her extremely well though) but her bias against male survivors of abuse seems to have clouded her judgement despite her skills. I also wonder that as someone who used to prosecute sex crimes whether these involved exclusively female victims, especially because she seemed to sympathise with Kitty very deeply. One could say it was a strategy to successfully convict the brothers but that scene in ‘Erik tells All’ where she reveals that she carries a photograph of Kitty’s maimed body in her wallet makes me wonder if there was a pathological obsession there linked to her own personal experiences that we don’t know about. I do wonder if Erik and Lyle were women if she’d even want to prosecute them. It’s possible she might’ve even so but I am here to analyse her methods rather than speculate on her integrity.

Kuriyama, on the other hand, seems to maintain a firm belief that kitty and Jose were just two imperfect parents who tried their best but made mistakes along the way. It’s almost like he lived on a different planet, trying to paint them as good people to the coaches, family and friends who told him before the whole the court that they were helicopter parents who wanted to use and live through their kids. His foundations were so unfounded it’s a wonder the DA’s office appointed him for such a high profile case. I don’t understand his strategies there, nor will I try to. He struck me as very ineffective while I could see Pam was actively trying to work with the more believable notions that Jose at least was a bad father but that he didn’t deserve to die for it, and that kitty was a battered wife and was collateral damage in Jose’s abuse of the boys. I understand that both lawyers were just trying to work the cases assigned to them and that Pam was recalculating and hitting witnesses with tough questions (sometimes) wherever possible but Kuriyama was barely doing that but still maintained an arrogant tone. Does anyone know of cases he’s actually won??? Cos I’d find that hard to believe.

Overall I found the roster of prosecution witnesses to be a little thin. Witnesses were on the stand like a revolving door, each being directly examined for a very short period of time compared to the defence, making me wonder if Pam and K could’ve done a better job squeezing info out of them or if there really wasn’t much more to glean. At the end of the day, I can see how much personal biases factored into their arguments and that is likely true of Jill and Leslie too who clearly loved the boys like mothers but were much more effective at building a case for their innocence, probably because they had more evidence to prove it.

N.B. I don’t take notes when I watch the trials so I apologise if I am regurgitating widely-held opinions. I do wonder what other redditors think about the strengths and weaknesses of each of the prosecution lawyers. I know most people here are pro-defence and Pam is unpopular but I still found her to be quite skilled despite her staunch biases.

I have so many thoughts about kitty. The more I learn about the case, the more she continues to fascinate me. One moment in testimony that particularly struck me was how she was able to subdue the rabid dog, Khan, when it attacked the neighbour kid. Lyle explains that she had the dog ‘by the teeth’ or ‘the jaw’ or something like that. It’s a powerful image, a mama bear moment. It seems she had the capabilities even if not always the instincts.

In many testimonies she is described as charming and highly, HIGHLY intelligent and appears to be an all-round ‘cool girl’.
I know of mothers who never wanted kids but chose to accept their fate and be good mothers. To hear how brilliant kitty was, how charismatic and beautiful, and how much support she seemed to have in her friends and siblings, it is honestly amazing to me that she limited herself to being Jose’s victim, secretary and co-conspirator. Even her in-laws loved her!She could indeed have become that hostess or model and lived out her days working and shopping and travelling with her girlfriends which she loved to do. It was never her kids who forced her to be a stay-at-home mom but her husband (Marta was a single mom of four and a successful stockbroker!!). I can totally sympathise with how motherhood can steal your identity, especially when you have unplanned children. She chose, however, to have Lyle because that was the only way she could keep Jose and then proceeded to force lyle to suffer the consequences of that choice. No wonder he told Megyn Kelly in 2017 that he doesn’t forgive her.

I am also finding that in most of the major media appearances as they seek parole, the extended family neglected to mention how Kitty instilled fear in her children, sexually assaulted lyle, allowed Erik to be sexually assaulted, tried to poison them on numerous occasions and allegedly conspired with Jose to kill them. This is their case against her in a nutshell! What makes their crime so divisive is their choice to kill her too, yet you find family members like Alan, Joan and several others speaking to the public almost exclusively about ‘their father’s abuse’. Having said that, I would never expect Joan to further tarnish her dead sister’s legacy by essentially telling the public that she had it coming for her. I was moved by her efforts to save face after her death (concealing the porno
tape) and to grant her that final dignity… Kitty was not only well-liked, but loved! She seems to get lost in the whole ‘wrath of Jose’ and is sometimes painted as collateral damage in all of this. While most of the Menendez are able to call Jose out, the Andersens are still struggling to do the same with kitty after decades. The enduring tragedy is her betrayal. She was at the heart of it all and yet at once jose’s shadow.

Another thing I found poetic is the way she died. Considering that she didn’t go instantly like Jose, she was likely aware of what was happening and it may have informed her bias that Lyle was somehow evil and was going to be the end of her. What struck me was how she tried to ‘sneak around the coffee table’ (Lyle’s words, unfortunate and awkward but true at least in describing her final moments) and FOUGHT to live despite contemplating suicide throughout her adult life. In such ways she is so much more compelling and tragic to me as a person than Jose.

What are your thoughts on kitty? Every hour of testimony I listen to makes me simultaneously sympathise with and hate her, sometimes even admire the woman she occasionally was. None of this excuses what she did to her children, however.

On a final note, here’s an excerpt from testimony of a letter Lyle wrote wrote her that she ignored, if I’m not wrong this was one of his repeated attempts to contact her from soccer camp when he was a teenager: ‘Hi mom. How are you. I hope you’re hanging in there. I often worry about you. You’re the only mother I have and would want… Made any new friends or done anything interesting lately? I hope so… I’m alright over here. I will write again soon so check the mailbox. Love you mom, Lyle.’

How have we made it through four seasons without a single interaction between Anthony and Eloise? Both such opinionated, headstrong characters, never having had a single interaction beyond family scenes where they’ve barely said so much as a word or two to each other? The show is no longer familymaxxing the way it did in seasons 1 and 2!! As in, creating chemistry between each of the Bridgertons. I really miss Chris van dusen; I sincerely hope Tom verica will take over as showrunner from Jess Brownell, he understood character and dialogue so much better as evident in queen charlotte. I know that CVD’s magic may never be replicated and I’m so grateful seasons 1 and 2 exist but I know Verica would do so much more to flesh out relationships than Jess currently is; I’m glad he is still producing but I could really do with a franchaela masterpiece with his touch rather than more of the very entertaining but not particularly special or memorable storylines and dialogue of seasons 3 and 4. Straying from the main point here, but Anthony and Eloise would have so much to talk/argue about and I sincerely hope we get a bit of that in the following seasons. I will have to let go of my dream of Daphne’s return but if we’re gonna have Anthony recurring then have him try to tame Eloise and put her in her place while she constantly challenges him instead of bickering with hyacinth, or show us how post-Kate Anthony would be more supportive of his rebellious sister, wielding his influence to make her dreams to study and travel come true. Something, anything to make it believable that these two characters have been brother and sister for four seasons.

Hello everybody

My neighbours are Lebanese Muslims and they are commemorating the death anniversary of their father; he passed away a year ago. They’re having a gathering for people to read Quran and pray for the deceased. I was wondering if it’s appropriate to take any food? I’ve never been to an Arab/muslim memorial gathering except the one they did for this same neighbour at the time of his death, at the time I didnt take anything. I was wondering if something like baklawa or sweets would be appropriate? Or is that considered celebratory and therefore rude? I’m no good at cooking Arab food; I really only make pasta and things like that. I was told cake would be inappropriate, I can make really good cakes but that’s a sign of celebration, so I was thinking of just settling for a nice tray of dates or sweets or something. If anyone here is Lebanese and/or Muslim kindly let me know what would be good.

Thank you so much