Hey guys I finally finished my recolor of the map of Middle Earth
Reddit compresses the file so I will share through drive.
I have included many locations only mentioned in the narrative but not labeled, enjoy!
Here is the list of those additions.
This was the last approved map by Tolkien that Pauline Baynes did about Middle Earth.
From The J.R.R Tolkien Companion and Guide:
>11 November 1970 Rayner Unwin writes to Tolkien. The Map of Middle-earth has been a great success. He would like to publish a companion poster map for The Hobbit. Pauline Baynes is willing to produce the artwork. She would use the Hobbit map-endpapers and Tolkien’s own pictures as a guide, but ‘doubtless … you could give her as you did in the case of the Middle-earth map some further information on these points’ (Tolkien–George Allen & Unwin archive, HarperCollins).
>11 August 1971 Rayner Unwin writes to thank Tolkien for a delightful day. ‘I have written to Pauline Baynes encouraging her to come with Fritz and the Hobbit map when it is at the stage prior to completion so that you can talk over points with her which she might otherwise miss. I told her to entitle it in the cartouche “There and Back Again, A map of Bilbo’s Journey through Eriador and Rhovanion”’ (Tolkien–George Allen & Unwin archive, HarperCollins).
Tolkien would like this map more than the previous one, this might be to the fact that many of the vignettes were based on art by Tolkien himself, most of the places depicted were illustrated first in The Hobbit.
24 December 1971 Tolkien writes to Eileen Elgar.
>[...]He finds the Hobbit poster map by Pauline Baynes better than A Map of Middle-earth; he is glad that Mrs Elgar has enjoyed the Narnia books by C.S. Lewis, though he himself does not like them, merely a difference in taste; and he comments on the naming of pets after Hobbits[...]
The map would be published at some point of 1971 after the month of September.
Me again:
(5Kmap)(will share the 10k map once I finish)
#Changes made
Added the East Road that runs all the way to Mount Taras. I have made it spaced and it ends abruptly south towards Brithombar.
I think the Noldor by the time the main narratives of The Silmarillion, CoH and UT have abandoned this road, Turgon now dwelt in Gondolin and no major settlement of elves or men were in Nevrast
Added the road about Nan Elmoth that goes to Doriath
Added the road drawn about the woods of Nuath in the second Silmarillion map. I believe this road indicates the road taken by Tuor and Voronwë to reach Ivrin then Gondolin(but I might be mistaken)
Added the meres again
Redrew the birchwoods of Nimbrehtil yet again as to match the topograhy seen in the second Silmarillion map, if the topopgrapic lines are correct the birchwoods were bigger than depicted and were on a hill or highland, I try to depict a hill seen from an isometric view with trees all around.
Erased some of the hills around northern Doriath this I because in the second Silmarillion map is does say the Folk of Beor and Barahir in that zone, I imagine that Taur-nu-fuin went a bit northwards and some of the Folk of Beor dwelt there and in the northern hills of Dorthonion, still highland should have hills so I have only erased a few.
Added more pines to match my assumption and to make clear that the forces of Morgoth after invading it made it a terrible place to visit and in which you could get lost.
Added a Label to indicate where Angband is, though the narrative is clear it is north I think having it in the map is cool, I imitated Thor's map(East lie the Iron Hills, West lies Mirkwood the great) but tell me your thoughts on it.
Drew forests in around River Ascar and Talos.
I also added some little hills around Amon Rûdh, as suggested by Helpful_Radish_9323
>They passed over the tumbled stones, and began to climb; for Amon Rûdh stood upon the eastern edge of the high moorlands that rose between the vales of Sirion and Narog, and even above the stony heath at its base its crown was reared up a thousand feet and more. Upon the eastern side a broken land climbed slowly up to the high ridges among knots of birch and rowan[...]
I am not british so doing a quick search moordlands they are somewhat hilly bare lands with some bushes and lack of trees, I think the Hill was of hard access so I have drawn many hills south and northeast as they came to acces it from the north
I have also added some trees around Taur-en-Faroth, as the index referes to these hills as:
>Taur-en-Faroth Wooded highlands to the west of the river Narog above Nargothrond. The Faroth; the High Faroth.
I try some perspective on the trees though I might have missed the mark
I have redrawn the willows(?) to be more in line with Christopher's though I have made them a tiny bit bigger and a dark green.
I have increased the intensity of the red of the name labels
I redrew the Andram to indicate a curve on the wall and have made the Randal become less sheer.
I made the labels I have added more pleasing to look at
I have added the road seen coming out of Nargotrond due north that loops and goes to Arvenien.
I have drawn the lines about the sea so its prettier to look at.
Ered Wethrin is correctly spelled.
Redrew Rivers Esgalduin and Aros source, looking at the map carefully, they do come from the same source though that source lies behind the mountains, and wouldn't be seen from the south because of the highland I have drew it a bit on the mountain behind where it originally was drawn by Christopher, but because its a bit small it might not be noticed.(tell me your thoughts)
Erased some of the woods of east Beleriand, Initially I wanted to include some because treebeards mentions going from Ossiriand to Doriath and then to Taur ni Fuin, I believed that was only possible to do with some forest there but then I remembered than the trees can be commanded to move by the ents, I believe this is the way he could travel on plains while not being seen ,that and I think it cluters the map.
Polish the eastern portion of the trees
Polish some names(WIP)
Do different colored palettes for the map.
Changed the Sindarin name of the Hill of tears to Haudh-en-Nirnaeth
Readded the woods around Amon Rûdh
Drew mountains aroud Tol Galen as seen in the second silmarillion map
Added hills around Barad Nimras and Lammoth as seen in the second Silmarillion map
Reduced the amount of trees in the wood of Nuath, indeed it is a wood not a forest, so it should be sparse.
Added some woods south and in the midst of Talath Dirnen
Made River Ginglith come from the mountain, I would argue the label of the woods of Núath is what stopped Tolkien from drawing the river all the way.(but tell me your thoughts about this decision)
Redrew all the trees west of the map.
Redrew Tol Sirion to match the towers seen in the painting by Tolkien
Added the north road of dwarves
Shaded the mountains a very dark grey
Erased the Rivil's well label and instead wrote River. Rivil as to make more space for trees.
Added some trees around Dor-Lomin( the narrative of CoH mentions some woods, I have drawn trees sparingly as to depict that)
Redrew Gondolin so you can see faintly the towers in the map (based in the sketch by Tolkien found in Pictures by Tolkien)
Added woodlands around Amon Rudh
CoH Chapter VII Of Mîm The Dwarf
>Next day he led his men away southward, further than they had yet come from the Teiglin and the marches of Doriath; and after three days’ journeying they halted at the western edge of the woods of Sirion’s Vale.
>There the land was drier and barer, as it began to climb up into the moorlands.
>Soon after, it chanced that as the grey light of a day of rain was failing Túrin and his men were sheltering in a holly-thicket; and beyond it was a treeless space
>[...]Before morning the rain ceased, and a wind stirred in the trees
>[...]Soon the company set out westward, and Túrin went at the head with Mîm at his side. They walked warily when they left the woods, but all the land seemed empty and quiet.
>[...]for Amon Rûdh stood upon the eastern edge of the high moorlands that rose between the vales of Sirion and Narog, and even above the stony heath at its base its crown was reared up a thousand feet and more. Upon the eastern side a broken land climbed slowly up to the high ridges among knots of birch and rowan, and ancient thorn-trees rooted in rock. Beyond, upon the moors and about the lower slopes of Amon Rûdh, there grew thickets of aeglos[...]
Add wood around Nargothrond.
CoH Chapter XI The Fall or Nargothrond
>The Elves were driven back and defeated on the field of Tumhalad; and there all the pride and host of Nargothrond withered away. Orodreth the King was slain in the forefront of the battle, and Gwindor son of Guilin was wounded to the death. But Túrin came to his aid, and all fled before him;
and he bore Gwindor out of the rout, and escaping to a wood there laid him on the grass
>Then Túrin sped back to Nargothrond, mustering such of the rout as he met with on the way; and the leaves fell from the trees in a great wind as they went
Chapter XIV
>But Morwen being distraught cried: ‘Rashness, lord! If my son lurks in the woods hungry
>Thus it was that with the full day they set forth, and passed slowly and warily out of the country of reeds and low willows, and came to the grey woods that covered much of the southern plain before Nargothrond
Added the river Nen Lalalith(not marked but drawn).
CoH Chapter IV The departure of Túrin.
>For Húrin’s house stood in the south-east of Dor-lómin, and the mountains were near;
Nen Lalaith indeed came down from a spring under the shadow of Amon Darthir, over whose shoulder there was a steep pass.
Colored ALL the rivers a recognizable blue
Redraw ALL Ered Luin
Added battle symbols
1.Amon Ereb signaling the first great battle of Beleriand(Denethor Slain)
2.Added symbol for Dagor-nuin-Giliath north of Lake Mithrim.
3.Added symbol for the battle of Sarn Athrad.
Redrew Andram so its like a wall(a wall from the south, a sheer fall from the north;suggested by CodexRegius)
Of Beleriand and its realms:
>This dividing fall was named Andram, the Long Wall, from Nargothrond to Ramdal, the Wall’s End, in East Beleriand. But in the east it became ever less sheer, for the vale of Gelion sloped steadily southward
Index of names:
>Andram ‘The Long Wall’, name of the dividing fall running across Beleriand.
Redrew the Falls of Sirion and the fens to resemble the first Silmarillion map.
Drew a bald top in Amon rûdh
Made the symbol of battle for the fen of serech clearer.
I added the river that feeds Cirith Ninniach, from the mountains of Mithrim seen by Tuor in UT
Made the pines on Taur-Nu-Fuin more numerous snd detailed.
Made the symbol for the battle of Tumhalad clearer
Added all the names upscaled in Red
Drew more pines about Dorthonion
Redrew all of Dorthinion and the chain of mountains surrounding Gondolin.
Made Himring a bit taller compared to the other hills surrounding it so it stands out.(See the second silmarillion map)
Redrew(Tarn) Aleuin , so it's clearer it's a lake
Drew the Old south road as it appears in Children of Hurin (see note on the map at the end of the book)
Added name labels for the wood of Núath and Amon Darthir as seen in Children of Hurin.
Redrew arrows pointing to places which were hardly discernable in the map.
Me again ,with multiple changes on the map which you might(not)like:
(10Kmap)
#Changes made
Returned the rivers to black(I have a version with the navy blue seen in my last post, I will share once I have finished polishing the trees)
Redrew Gondolin so you can see faintly the towers in the map (based in the sketch by Tolkien found in Pictures by Tolkien)
Redrew the brichwoods of Nimbrehtil as to match the topograhy seen in the second Silmarillion map( tell me your thoughs please)
Redrew Tol Sirion to match the towers seen in the painting by Tolkien
Added the north road of dwarves
Shaded the mountains a very dark grey
Erased the Rivil's well label and instead wrote River. Rivil as to make more space for trees.
Added more pines around Taur-nu-fuin
Added some trees around Dor-Lomin( the narrative of CoH mentions some woods, I have drawn trees sparingly as to depict that)
Changed the Sindarin name of the Hill of tears to Haudh-en-Nirnaeth
Readded the woods around Amon Rûdh
Drew mountains aroud Tol Galen as seen in the second silmarillion map
Added hills around Barad Nimras and Lammoth as seen in the second Silmarillion map
Reduced the amount of trees in the wood of Nuath, indeed it is a wood not a forest, so it should be sparse.
Made River Ginglith come from the mountain, I would argue the label of the woods of Núath is what stopped Tolkien from drawing the river all the way.(but tell me your thoughts about this decision)
I erased some of the smaller meres while I was working(will be readded later)
Added some woods south and in the midst of Talath Dirnen
Added forests in Thargelion and Ossiriand(WIP)
Redrew all the trees west of the map.
Cirith Ninniach is correctly labeled.
Polish the eastern portion of the trees
Polish some names(WIP)
Add the East Road that runs all the way to Mount Taras
Add the road from Nevrast to Brithombar, passing by Vinyamar and Mount Taras.
Added woodlands around Amon Rudh
CoH Chapter VII Of Mîm The Dwarf
>Next day he led his men away southward, further than they had yet come from the Teiglin and the marches of Doriath; and after three days’ journeying they halted at the western edge of the woods of Sirion’s Vale.
>There the land was drier and barer, as it began to climb up into the moorlands.
>Soon after, it chanced that as the grey light of a day of rain was failing Túrin and his men were sheltering in a holly-thicket; and beyond it was a treeless space
>[...]Before morning the rain ceased, and a wind stirred in the trees
>[...]Soon the company set out westward, and Túrin went at the head with Mîm at his side. They walked warily when they left the woods, but all the land seemed empty and quiet.
>[...]for Amon Rûdh stood upon the eastern edge of the high moorlands that rose between the vales of Sirion and Narog, and even above the stony heath at its base its crown was reared up a thousand feet and more. Upon the eastern side a broken land climbed slowly up to the high ridges among knots of birch and rowan, and ancient thorn-trees rooted in rock. Beyond, upon the moors and about the lower slopes of Amon Rûdh, there grew thickets of aeglos[...]
Add wood around Nargothrond.
CoH Chapter XI The Fall or Nargothrond
>The Elves were driven back and defeated on the field of Tumhalad; and there all the pride and host of Nargothrond withered away. Orodreth the King was slain in the forefront of the battle, and Gwindor son of Guilin was wounded to the death. But Túrin came to his aid, and all fled before him;
and he bore Gwindor out of the rout, and escaping to a wood there laid him on the grass
>Then Túrin sped back to Nargothrond, mustering such of the rout as he met with on the way; and the leaves fell from the trees in a great wind as they went
Chapter XIV
>But Morwen being distraught cried: ‘Rashness, lord! If my son lurks in the woods hungry
>Thus it was that with the full day they set forth, and passed slowly and warily out of the country of reeds and low willows, and came to the grey woods that covered much of the southern plain before Nargothrond
Added the river Nen Lalalith(not marked but drawn).
CoH Chapter IV The departure of Túrin.
>For Húrin’s house stood in the south-east of Dor-lómin, and the mountains were near;
Nen Lalaith indeed came down from a spring under the shadow of Amon Darthir, over whose shoulder there was a steep pass.
Colored ALL the rivers a recognizable blue
Redraw ALL Ered Luin
Added battle symbols
1.Amon Ereb signaling the first great battle of Beleriand(Denethor Slain)
2.Added symbol for Dagor-nuin-Giliath north of Lake Mithrim.
3.Added symbol for the battle of Sarn Athrad.
Redrew Andram so its like a wall(a wall from the south, a sheer fall from the north;suggested by CodexRegius)
Of Beleriand and its realms:
>This dividing fall was named Andram, the Long Wall, from Nargothrond to Ramdal, the Wall’s End, in East Beleriand. But in the east it became ever less sheer, for the vale of Gelion sloped steadily southward
Index of names:
>Andram ‘The Long Wall’, name of the dividing fall running across Beleriand.
Redrew the Falls of Sirion and the fens to resemble the first Silmarillion map.
Drew a bald top in Amon rûdh
Made the symbol of battle for the fen of serech clearer.
I added the river that feeds Cirith Ninniach, from the mountains of Mithrim seen by Tuor in UT
Made the pines on Taur-Nu-Fuin more numerous snd detailed.
Made the symbol for the battle of Tumhalad clearer
Rivers Esgalduin and Aros come from the same source and split a bit more naturally
Added all the names upscaled in Red
Drew more pines about Dorthonion
Redrew all of Dorthinion and the chain of mountains surrounding Gondolin.
Made Himring a bit taller compared to the other hills surrounding it so it stands out.(See the second silmarillion map)
Redrew(Tarn) Aleuin , so it's clearer it's a lake
Drew the Old south road as it appears in Children of Hurin (see note on the map at the end of the book)
Added name labels for the wood of Núath and Amon Darthir as seen in Children of Hurin.
Redrew arrows pointing to places which were hardly discernable in the map.
(The map on the post is 10k btw)
I'm doing a remaster on the Original Beleriand map, I plan to make the map very readable and printable on a large poster while keeping Christopher meaning as much as possible.
I also wish to amend some errors which the original map had.
I would greatly appreciate your feedback on anything you believe should be put on it.
Changes I have made:
Rivers Esgalduin and Aros come from the same source
from HOME IV
>Shadowy Spring:It is notable that the rivers Aros and Esgalduin arise at the same place, in the Shadowy Spring (not previously named in the texts; see Esgalduin). In the later map, on which mine in the published Silmarillion was based, this is still the case, and my map, showing the two sources as separate, is regrettably in error.
I added a river that feed into Cirith Ninniach, from the mountains of Mithrim seen by Tuor in UT(unsure if the source of the river would be right)
redrew fens and icons from fortresses and cities so they can be more easily recognizable(WIP)
Made the pines on Taur-Nu-Fuin more detailed (albeit just a bit if someone were to print in small paper the detail would be lost)
Erased the text and connected rivers or roads that weren't connected by being interrupted by Letters of names.
Upscaled the text for the names of places(WIP)
Changes I wish to make:
add the woods of Núath
From unfinished tales:
>The woods of Núath are not mentioned in The Silmarillion and are not marked on the map that accompanies it. They extended westward from the upper waters of the Narog towards the source of the river Nenning.
Make the mountains and hills clearer(some landforms are not discernable individually, though this comes to personal preference)
Possibly add Angband based on the second Silmarillion map
Any elements that Christopher didn't add and are missing that you remember would be helpful for this project.
Doing some tests on a map of Beleriand writing with tengwar(instead of the latin alphabet) and I was wondering if using an ómatehtar mode is the right call or using a full mode would be best.
I'm a bit confused as the inscription on Durin's door says it is written in the mode of Beleriand and vowels are not represented with diacritics.
Seeing as the question of how tall was Barad-dûr come up every so often and the amount of research I have done on the topic I thought it was a good time to share my revised essay with more evidence as to why The Dark Tower was just unimaginably massive as the first version of the post lacked citations and many sources.
WARNING: Wall of text
TL;DR: Barad-dûr was not merely a tall tower but a colossal fortress. From the Morgai it was visible roughly 75–76 miles away, a distance at which the curvature of the Earth, Mordor's fumes, and Sauron's shadow would have hidden a normal structure. The textual, linguistic, and artistic evidence suggests a fortress of extraordinary height, mass, and complexity, likely rivaling Mount Doom in scale.
I have recently been rereading the Lord of The Rings and the Plateau of Gorgoroth has been an obsession of mine as I reconstruct every nook and cranny of Frodo and Sam's Journey, this made me realize something that baffled me.
First, I would like to discuss the distances between the landmarks of the Plateau of Gorgoroth and how far they really are from each other, as the narrative tends to compress Frodo and Sam' journey toward Mount Doom.
As you may or may not know, Christopher Tolkien's map included in the Return of the King has a scale bar.
Using this scale, the distance between the Morgai and Mount Doom comes to roughly 40-43 miles (64.3km-69.2km).
Likewise, measuring from the same point to the centre of the Barad-dûr symbol gives a distance of roughly 75–76 miles, Barad-dûr then is approximately 120 km away from Frodo and Sam, making the following passage even more astonishing.
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter II, The Land of Shadow, page 922-923) :
>"[...]and passing through found themselves on the very edge of the last fence of Mordor. Below them,at the bottom of a fall of some fifteen hundred feet, lay the inner plain stretching away into a formless gloom beyond their sight.
>"[...]Still far away, forty miles at least, they saw Mount Doom, its feet founded in ashen ruin, its huge cone rising to a great height, where its reeking head was swathed in cloud. [...]Behind it there hung a vast shadow, ominous as a thunder-cloud, the veils of Barad-dûr that was reared far away upon a long spur of the Ashen Mountains thrust down from the North."
Thus, from an elevation of roughly 1,500 feet on the Morgai, Frodo and Sam could distinguish Barad-dûr and its looming shadow even though it lay some forty miles farther away than Mount Doom.
One could argue that you can see skyscrapers or even houses from 60 miles away on a clear day, which would be true.
Atmospheric refraction can increase the visibility of certain objects seen from a distance but the fact is that Mordor is not a place with clean air nor its enviromental conditions would allow for the tower to be seen from that far off, there's also the fact that Sauron uses Shadow for concealment of his movements in Mordor and as psychological warfare(see point 10).
From this first description, Barad-dûr appears less like an isolated tower and more like a vast looming presence being compared to a Thunder-cloud.
An additional piece of evidence comes from Tolkien's own discarded dustjacket for the Two Towers in which he depicts Barad-dûr and Minas Tirith within the same visual composition, providing a rare direct comparison between the two great fortresses of the Third Age.
While the drawing was not intended as a precise architectural elevation, it is significant.
Barad-dûr is depicted as a massive, broad fortress rising from a substantial elevated base, while Minas Tirith appears comparatively smaller and more slender.
The drawing therefore supports the interpretation that the contrast between the two fortresses was not merely a matter of height. Tolkien appears to have conceived Barad-dûr as a structure of greater overall mass and vertical dominance: an artificial mountain of iron and stone rather than simply a taller tower.
An additional piece of evidence comes from (NoME) Nature of Middle Earth chapter that comments on the Pauline Baynes illustrations which Tolkien himself chose to depict Middle Earth:
(NoME, Part II chapter VI: Description of Characters, page 191):
>"In 1970 Allen & Unwin published a poster-sized Map of Middle-earth, executed by the artist Pauline Baynes, and based upon that included in The Lord of the Rings. On the map itself are a series of vignettes portraying various locations significant to the story, such as the Barrow-Downs and Minas Tirith[...]"
>"On seeing the finished art, Tolkien wrote a set of comments on these depictions of places and characters."
>Some of these comments are appreciative: e.g. Tolkien found four of the vignettes, sc.those depicting the Teeth of Mordor, the Argonath, Barad-dûr, and Minas Morgul, particularly well-executed, and described them as agreeing “remarkably with my own vision… Minas Morgul is almost exact”
What concerns us here, however, is the illustration made by Pauline Baynes of Barad-dûr; the depiction makes the tower seem not only impossibly tall but also broad.
I recommend looking at the map itself, both because it is beautiful and because Tolkien praised several of its depictions as agreeing remarkably with his own vision.
This brings me to the next point which will be built upon this one as means of establishing a visual picture of the fortress.
The aforementioned vignette depicts the Dark Tower as a massive complex of stone rather than the slender tower most artists depict, an impression reinforced by the following passage from
[The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, chapter X:The Breaking of the Fellowship page 401]
>"[...]and the haunted Mountains, and it looked upon Gorgoroth, the valley of terror in the Land of Mordor. Darkness lay there under the Sun. Fire glowed amid the smoke. Mount Doom was burning, and a great reek rising. Then at last his gaze was held: wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong, mountain of iron, gate of steel, tower of adamant, he saw it: Barad-dûr, Fortress of Sauron. All hope left him.
Unlike the descriptions of darkness ,these phrases are clearly architectural: walls, battlements, gates, and towers. They therefore provide stronger evidence for the physical loftiness and broadness of Barad-dûr itself.
Particularly striking is the description "mountain of iron," which, admittedly, could be figurative. However, the comments in NoME and the earlier comparison to a thunder-cloud suggest otherwise.
To further support my argument, I will include additional evidence from the chapter "Mount Doom." This evidence may be the least reliable, since Tolkien usually describes the fortress in metaphorical rather than architectural terms until its fall.
Nevertheless, I believe the following passages support my interpretation.
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III Mount Doom, page 934-935)
>"[...]But as they went the most easterly of the roads followed them, until it ran off, hugging the skirts of the mountains, away into a wall of black shadow far ahead.Neither man nor orc now moved along its flat grey stretches; for the Dark Lord had almost completed the movement of his forces, and even in the fastness of his own realm he sought the secrecy of night, fearing the winds of the world that had turned against him, tearing aside his veils
>[...]But far worse than all such perils was the ever-approaching threat that beat upon them as they went:the dreadful menace of the Power that waited, brooding in deep thought and sleepless malice behind the dark veil about its Throne. Nearer and nearer it drew, looming blacker, like the oncoming of a wall of night at the last end of the world."
At this point Frodo and Sam are taking the road that goes northwest to the Isenmouthe from Barad-dûr and will soon move away from it across the plateau to reach Mount Doom.
The fortress has been described as a "mountain of iron," a "wall of night," a "tower of adamant," and a looming black shadow; of course, these descriptions could all be metaphorical, which leads to my next point.
The narrator also provides approximate heights for both the Morgai and Orodruin, allowing a rough comparison between them.
The Morgai rises roughly 1,500 feet above the plain, while Orodruin stands approximately 4,500 feet high (with Sammath Naur likely being around 4,300 feet, judging from Tolkien's drawing), as we read:
(RoTk, Mount Doom, Book VI, chapter III, page 941)
>"[...]The Mountain standing ominous and alone had looked taller than it was. Sam saw now that it was less lofty than the high passes of the Ephel Dúath which he and Frodo had scaled.The confused and tumbled shoulders of its great base rose for maybe three thousand feet above the plain, and above them was reared half as high again its tall central cone, like a vast oast or chimney capped with a jagged crater."
The Fortress then could be inferred with a reasonable degree of certainty that it rivalled or possibly even surpassed Mount Doom in height as its shadows rose above it.
Further evidence of the scale of the fortress comes when Frodo and Sam are climbing towards the Sammath Naur and the veils of the fortress are removed:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 942)
>"Far off the shadows of Sauron hung; but torn by some gust of wind out of the world, or else moved by some great disquiet within, the mantling clouds swirled, and for a moment drew aside; and then he saw, rising black, blacker and darker than the vast shades amid which it stood,the cruel pinnacles and iron crown of the topmost tower of Barad-dûr. One moment only it stared out, but as from some great window immeasurably high there stabbed northward a flame of red, the flicker of a piercing Eye; and then the shadows were furled again and the terrible vision was removed."
So it is strongly implied that Barad-dûr was surrounded by, or associated with, a mantle of shadow and that when the veils briefly parted Frodo caught sight of the pinnacles and crown of its highest tower
The use of the word "topmost" also suggests that Barad-dûr possessed multiple towers, with the one seen by Frodo being the highest.
However, when the shadows briefly parted, Frodo perceived architectural features of Barad-dûr itself: its pinnacles, iron crown, topmost tower, and an immensely high window. While the passage does not allow a precise measurement of its dimensions, it does reinforce the impression of extraordinary verticality.
Taken together, this evidence suggests that Barad-dûr may have approached the scale of a mountain in Tolkien's mind.
I will now refer to Parma Eldalamberon and the Sindarin root for Barad to further my argument:
[From PE XVII Words, Phrases and Passages in various tongues in The Lord of The Rings, page 22 and 85]
>The names Elbereth, Gilthoniel, Fanuilos.These refer to the great Vala called in Quenya Varda, "the Lofty." In Sindarin Elbereth(rarely Bereth) is her usual name, the other two are "titles."
>Q Varda is <barada [which would be in Sindarin \bara'o]. This root, which seems to express great height combined with strength, size, majesty, appears in several variant forms:
>(1) ...JBARAT, (2) ...JBARATH, (3)BARAD(4) BARAS. From (1) is derived: S barad, a great "towering building, (fort, city, castle) tower;[also brand, brann 'towering', "tall and massive"(or to noun brand, steeple): cf. Tol Brandir, Isle of the Great Steeples: it was a great upstanding mass ending in two major and two minor steeples.] "
>"Barad-dur; barad 'a great towering building, (fort, city, castle) tower'; dur 'dark"
>"[See I 250 s.v. Elbereth, I 259 s.v. mar. Cf. EQS barad 'tower', dur 'dark' ; Etym. BARAT-, N barad*
>'tower, fortress', 003, D6-, EN dur 'dark, sombre' ; Barad-dur 'the Dark Tower', TI 178.]*
The linguistic evidence from Parma Eldalamberon further refines this interpretation. The BARAT / BARAD root is explicitly associated with concepts of great height, mass, and monumental structure, not merely a “tower.” Its derivatives include forms meaning “tall and massive,” suggesting that barad carries an inherent sense of vertical and horizontal magnitude.
Finally when the ring is cast into the cracks of Doom:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 947)
>"And there upon the dark threshold of the Sammath Naur, high above the plains of Mordor, such wonder and terror came on him that he stood still forgetting all else, and gazed as one turned to stone.
>A brief vision he had of swirling cloud, and in the midst of it towers and battlements, tall as hills, founded upon a mighty mountain-throne above immeasurable pits; great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and gaping gates of steel and adamant: and then all passed. Towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up, up, until they toppled like an overwhelming wave, and its wild crest curled and came foaming down upon the land. And then at last over the miles between there came a rumble rising to a deafening crash and roar; the earth shook, the plain heaved and cracked, and Orodruin reeled"
The description of a 'mountain-throne' is consistent with Tolkien's own illustration of Barad-dûr, which depicts the fortress rising from a massive elevated foundation, this mass most likely being the foundations that couldn't be destroyed by The Last Alliance, this spur also raised the already tall fortress even further above everything else.
The narrative mentions great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and, most remarkably, gaping gates of steel. Based on Christopher Tolkien's map, Sam was also standing over four thousand feet a above the plain at the Sammath Naur and 31 miles from the fortress giving him a clear view of Barad-dûr.
Between the elevation of both landmarks and the unusual nature of the vision itself, I think it's entirely plausible that he genuinely witnessed Barad-dûr collapsing.
It is also possible that Tolkien heightened some of the detail for literary effect, but I don't think those possibilities necessarily exclude one another.
The precise nature of Sam's "brief vision" remains open to interpretation. It may represent heightened perception associated with the Ring, literary narration, or a combination of these possibilities, since Tolkien does not specify.
Regardless of the exact nature of Sam's vision, its imagery is among the strongest evidence for Barad-dûr's immense scale: towers compared to hills, vast courts, dungeons, cliffs, and gates of steel and adamant."
The next argument draws upon The Silmarillion and Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings.
(The Silmarillion,Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, page 352)
>"[...]Therefore they made that League which is called the Last Alliance, and they marched east into Middle-earth gathering a great host of Elves and Men; and they halted for a while at Imladris. It is said that the host that was there assembled was fairer and more splendid in arms than any that has since been seen in Middle-earth, and none greater has been mustered since the host of the Valar went against Thangorodrim."
Then:
(Appendix B: The Tale of Years, The Second age, page 1084 )
>"S.A 3434: The host of the Alliance crosses the Misty Mountains. Battle of Dagorlad and defeat of Sauron. Siege of Barad-dûr begins
>S.A3440 Anárion slain.
>S.A 3441 Sauron overthrown by Elendil and Gil-galad, who perish. Isildur takes the One Ring. Sauron passes away and the Ringwraiths go into the shadows. The Second Age ends."
Seven long years they besieged Barad Dûr and the greatest army in the world at that time couldn't break through.
How could the Last Alliance fail to breach Barad-dûr for seven years? While several explanations are possible, I would argue that its immense size, the capacity to sustain a prolonged siege, and alternate routes although to a much lesser degree as the fortress was being sieged and communication cut off is part of the answer as the next passage reveals:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 942)
>"[...]He did not know it, but he was looking at Sauron’s Road from Barad-dûr to the Sammath Naur, the Chambers of Fire. Out from the Dark Tower’s huge western gate it came over a deep abyss by a vast bridge of iron, and then passing into the plain it ran for a league between two smoking chasms, and so reached a long sloping causeway that led up on to the Mountain’s eastern side."
So it is safe to assume the Sauron road and the Isenmouthe road were the most used but not the only ones; as stated by the text and seen in the illustration by Tolkien having a bridge going east and Mount Doom being west of the fortress and down the Plateau.
[RoTK, Book VI, chapter II :The Land of Shadow,page 923 ]
>"Neither he nor Frodo knew anything of the great slave-worked fields away south in this wide realm, beyond the fumes of the Mountain by the dark sad waters of Lake Núrnen; nor of the great roads that ran away east and south to tributary lands, from which the soldiers of the Tower brought long waggon-trains of goods and booty and fresh slaves. Here in the northward regions were the mines and forges, and the musterings of long-planned war"
My final argument concerns the topography of Barad-dûr itself. Tolkien's own illustration(see point 6) of the fortress provides what is perhaps our clearest view of the "foundations" mentioned in The Council of Elrond: the vast stone platform upon which Barad-dûr stood:
[FoTR, Book II, Chapter II: The Council of Elrond, page 244]
>"Fruitless did I call the victory of the Last Alliance? Not wholly so, yet it did not achieve its end. Sauron was diminished, but not destroyed. His Ring was lost but not unmade.The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring, and while it remains they will endure."
We should also consider Pauline Baynes' previously mentioned map.
If we examine Mordor closely, Barad-dûr is depicted as taller than Orodruin and considerably broader than it is in most maps and artistic depictions.
The illustration also show a modest base beneath the tower that may represent these foundations.
A more speculative piece of evidence comes from Christopher Tolkien's map. Although the symbol for Barad-dûr is unlikely to represent a precise footprint, measuring it against the map's scale indicates dimensions considerably larger than one mile. Since such symbols are necessarily schematic, I instead adopt one square mile as a deliberately conservative estimate for the fortress's built area.
Even assuming a conservative area of only one square mile, the fortress would occupy roughly 2.59 million square metres.
For comparison, the Burj Khalifa—the tallest building in the world—occupies roughly 29,000 square meters.
Of course, this does not mean the entire area encompassing the fortress was covered with buildings. The fortress probably included open courts, roads, walls, workshops, barracks, and other structures. Even allowing for that, the available area remains enormous by the standards of both historical fortifications and modern buildings.
For further perspective, an area of one square mile is roughly three quarters the size of Central Park and approximately equal to London's Financial District
The descriptions of Barad-dûr combine physical architecture with imagery of darkness and concealment. However, Tolkien appears to distinguish between the fortress itself and the supernatural shadows surrounding it.
"The 'veils' and 'mantle of shadow' associated with Sauron's stronghold appear to be manifestations of Sauron's power and will rather than extensions of the physical structure itself."
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 934)
>"Neither man nor orc now moved along its flat grey stretches; for the Dark Lord had almost completed the movement of his forces, and even in the fastness of his own realm he sought the secrecy of night, fearing the winds of the world that had turned against him, tearing aside his veils."
Here Tolkien uses the language of concealment rather than construction. The "veils" are something that can be torn aside by the winds of the world, suggesting a layer of darkness or associated with Sauron's power rather than an ordinary part of Barad-dûr.
Later, when Frodo approaches the Sammath Naur:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 942)
>"[...] but still far from the reeking summit, to a dark entrance that gazed back east straight to the Window of the Eye in Sauron’s shadow-mantled fortress."
The phrase "shadow-mantled fortress" is important because it separates two ideas: the fortress exists as a physical structure, while the shadow is a mantle placed upon it. This distinction allows Tolkien's descriptions of Barad-dûr to operate on two levels: an immense fortress of walls, towers, and foundations, and a centre of spiritual darkness radiating Sauron's will.
This interpretation is supported by
[Appendix B, Tale of the Years, The Great Years, 3019, March 9]
>Gandalf reaches Minas Tirith. Faramir leaves Henneth Annûn. Aragorn sets out from Erech and comes to Calembel. At dusk Frodo reaches the Morgul-road. Théoden comes to Dunharrow.* Darkness begins to flow out of Mordor.
This suggests that the darkness spreading from Mordor was presented as something more than merely the natural fumes of Orodruin.
The wording presents the darkness as an active force spreading from Mordor, rather than merely the smoke and fumes of Orodruin. While Tolkien does not precisely define the nature of this darkness, the language throughout The Lord of the Rings suggests that the shadow surrounding Barad-dûr and Mordor was both atmospheric and symbolic, reflecting the influence of Sauron.
Although this evidence could perhaps suggest that the fortress could have been lesser in scale, as clear dimensions in any shape or metric were never given in the narrative ; it also opens the possibility that it was broader and taller.
Nevertheless Tolkien did leave it to interpretation and describing the fortress and its surrounding in such vague terms invites the reader to imagine their own fortress or tower.
Since the apparent distance between Orodruin and Barad-dûr is not immediately obvious from the narrative, I also measured Christopher Tolkien's map using its printed scale:
6.5 mm = 10 miles
1 mm ≈ 1.54 miles
Measurements:
Morgai shelf to Orodruin: 27 mm ≈ 41.5 miles (closely matching "forty miles at least")
Orodruin to Barad-dûr: 22 mm ≈ 34 miles
Morgai shelf to Barad-dûr: 49 mm ≈ 75–76 miles
These measurements should not be taken as exact. The map symbols are necessarily schematic, especially for a structure as unusual as Barad-dûr. They do, however, provide a reasonable approximation of the relative distances involved.
Tolkien conceived Middle-earth as the distant mythological past of our own Earth. In Letter 211, Tolkien described the fall of Barad-dûr as occurring thousands of years before the present day:
>[...]"I hope the, evidently long but undefined, gap in time between the Fall of Barad-dûr and our Days is sufficient for ‘literary credibility’, even for readers acquainted with what is known or surmised of ‘pre-history’."
>"I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as S.A. and T.A. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh."
Therefore, assuming Middle-earth follows the same physical principles as our own planet, the curvature of the Earth and the angular size of distant objects become relevant when considering the visibility of Barad-dûr from the Morgai.
Horizon Distance
The approximate distance to the horizon can be calculated with:
d ≈ 3.57 × √h
Where:
d = distance to the horizon in kilometres
h = observer elevation in metres
Frodo and Sam observed Mordor from the Morgai, which Tolkien describes as having a fall of approximately fifteen hundred feet. This gives an elevation of roughly:
h = 457 m
Therefore:
d ≈ 3.57 × √457
d ≈ 76 km
Thus, from an elevation of approximately 1,500 feet, the geometric horizon would be roughly 76 kilometres away.
However, Barad-dûr lay approximately 120 kilometres distant according to Christopher Tolkien's map. This means that the fortress was beyond the normal horizon from Frodo and Sam's viewpoint and could only be visible because of its extraordinary height, atmospheric refraction, or Tolkien's deliberate dramatic compression of geography.
The amount of obstruction caused by the Earth's curvature can be estimated with:
h ≈ d² / (2R)
Where:
h = height hidden by curvature
d = distance in kilometres
R = radius of the Earth (\~6371 km)
For Barad-dûr at approximately 120 km:
h ≈ 120² / (2 × 6371)
h ≈ 1.1 km
At this distance, the curvature of the Earth introduces a horizon obstruction of roughly one kilometre. However, this does not mean that Barad-dûr itself would need to be over a kilometre tall, since Frodo and Sam were already standing approximately 457 metres (1500 feet)above the plain and Barad-dûr foundations contribute to its height both of this factors compensated for part of this effect.
The implication is that only the uppermost portions of a sufficiently tall structure would rise above the horizon, making the visible height and angular size of Barad-dûr crucial factors.
Angular Size
The apparent size of a distant object can be calculated with:
θ ≈ arctan(height / distance)
Where:
θ = angular size in degrees
height = visible height of the object
distance = distance from the observer
At a distance of approximately 120 kilometres:
A 500 metre visible structure:
θ ≈ arctan(500 / 120000)
θ ≈ 0.24°
A 1000 metre visible structure:
θ ≈ arctan(1000 / 120000)
θ ≈ 0.48°
A 1500 metre visible structure:
θ ≈ arctan(1500 / 120000)
θ ≈ 0.72°
For comparison, the Moon appears approximately 0.5° wide in the sky.
Although these values appear small numerically, they are visually significant. A structure with 1–1.5 kilometres of visible height at a distance of 120 kilometres would possess an apparent vertical size comparable to, or larger than, the Moon itself.
These calculations do not provide an exact height for Barad-dûr, since Tolkien never gives one. Their purpose is instead to establish the minimum scale required for the scene described in The Return of the King. A normal tower, even a large fortress, would not plausibly dominate the horizon from such a distance under the conditions described in Mordor.
For Barad-dûr to appear above the horizon from the Morgai, it would require an extraordinary visible height, consistent with Tolkien's descriptions of it as a "mountain of iron," a "tower of adamant," and a fortress whose "topmost tower" rose above the surrounding shadows even if a base gave it an edge for it to be seen from great distances.
While none of these pieces of evidence is conclusive on its own, together they point toward a remarkably consistent picture. Barad-dûr emerges not as an isolated tower, but as an immense fortress-city rising from a mountain-like foundation, with multiple towers, vast courts, bridges, gates, and walls.
Whether it ultimately exceeded Orodruin in height cannot be established with certainty. However, the cumulative textual and artistic evidence strongly supports the interpretation of Barad-dûr as an immense fortress-city: a structure of towers, walls, courts, foundations, and battlements whose scale approached that of the surrounding mountains.
Personally, I believe the evidence points to Barad-dûr itself surpassing Orodruin in height—or, at the very least, being of comparable height. The spur upon which it was built would have elevated the fortress still further above the plain.
I also believe it spread across a remarkably broad complex.
These observations also help explain the scale of devastation across the Plateau of Gorgoroth following the Ring's destruction.
I think Sam's account reflects an actual vision of Barad-dûr's destruction, even if Tolkien heightened some of the details for literary effect.
If you've read this far, thank you for indulging my fascination with Gorgoroth and The Dark "Tower".
I'd be interested to hear whether you think the textual evidence supports this interpretation.
Tolkien, J. R. R. (2023). The Lord of the Rings Illustrated by the Author: A Special Edition. HarperCollins Publishers. [Map of Gondor, Rohan and Mordor by Christopher Tolkien]
Tolkien, J. R. R. (2005). The Lord of the Rings: 50th Anniversary Edition. One-Volume Edition. HarperCollins Paperback. [pp. 244, 401, 922–923, 934, 941–942, 944, 947, 1084]
Tolkien: Maker of Middle-earth, eds Catherine McIlwaine. Oxford: Bodleian Library, 2018, [p. 372]
Tolkien, J. R. R., and Christopher Tolkien (eds.). (2002). The Silmarillion. Del Rey Books. [p. 352]
Tolkien, J. R. R., and Carl F. Hostetter (ed.). (2021). The Nature of Middle-earth. HarperCollins Publishers. [p. 191]
Tolkien, J. R. R., and Christopher Gilson (ed.). (2007). Parma Eldalamberon XVII: Words, Phrases and Passages in Various Tongues in The Lord of the Rings. The Tolkien Trust. [pp. 22, 85]
Tolkien, J. R. R., Christopher Tolkien, and Pauline Baynes. (1969). A Map of Middle-earth. George Allen & Unwin.
Tolkien, J. R. R. (2021). Pictures by J. R. R. Tolkien. William Morrow. [Section 30]
Tolkien, J. R. R. (2023). The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien: Revised and Expanded Edition. Edited by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien. HarperCollins Publishers. [Letter 211]
I previously posted this in r/tolkienfans but I have since made a more thorough read of most Middle Earth related sources and I have come up with the definitive analysis of Barad-dûr scale and why it surpassed the PJ movies version in broadness and height.
WARNING: Wall of text
TL;DR: Barad-dûr was not merely a tall tower but a colossal fortress. From the Morgai it was visible roughly 75–76 miles away, a distance at which the curvature of the Earth, Mordor's fumes, and Sauron's shadow would have hidden a normal structure. The textual, linguistic, and artistic evidence suggests a fortress of extraordinary height, mass, and complexity, likely rivaling a mountain in scale.
I have recently been rereading the Lord of The Rings and the Plateau of Gorgoroth has been an obsession of mine as I reconstruct every nook and cranny of Frodo and Sam's Journey, this made me realize something that baffled me and which I will delving into now:
First, I would like to discuss the distances between the landmarks of the Plateau of Gorgoroth and how far they really are from each other, as the narrative tends to compress Frodo and Sam' journey toward Mount Doom.
As you may or may not know, Christopher Tolkien's map included in the Return of the King has a scale bar.
Using this scale, the distance between the Morgai and Mount Doom comes to roughly 40-43 miles (64.3km-69.2km).
Likewise, measuring from the same point to the centre of the Barad-dûr symbol gives a distance of roughly 75–76 miles, Barad-dûr then is approximately 120 km away from Frodo and Sam, making the following passage even more astonishing.
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter II, The Land of Shadow, page 922-923) :
>"[...]and passing through found themselves on the very edge of the last fence of Mordor. Below them,* at the bottom of a fall of some fifteen hundred feet, lay the inner plain *stretching away into a formless gloom beyond their sight.
>"[...]Still far away, forty miles at least, they saw Mount Doom, its feet founded in ashen ruin, its huge cone rising to a great height, where its reeking head was swathed in cloud. [...]Behind it there hung a vast shadow, ominous as a thunder-cloud, the veils of Barad-dûr that was reared far away upon a long spur of the Ashen Mountains thrust down from the North*."
Thus, from an elevation of roughly 1,500 feet on the Morgai, Frodo and Sam could distinguish Barad-dûr and its looming shadow even though it lay some forty miles farther away than Mount Doom.
One could argue that you can see skyscrapers or even houses from 60 miles away on a clear day, which would be true.
Athmosferic refraction can increase the visibility of certain objects but the fact is that Mordor is not a place with clean air nor its enviromental conditions would allow for the tower to be seen from that far off, there's also the fact that Sauron uses Shadow for concealment of his movements in the Mordor and as psychological warfare(see point 10)
From this first description, Barad-dûr appears less like an isolated tower and more like a vast looming presence being compared to a Thunder-cloud.
An additional piece of evidence comes from Tolkien's own discarded dustjacket for the Two Towers in which he depicts Barad-dûr and Minas Tirith within the same visual composition, providing a rare direct comparison between the two great fortresses of the Third Age.
While the drawing was not intended as a precise architectural elevation, it is significant.
Barad-dûr is depicted as a massive, broad fortress rising from a substantial elevated base, while Minas Tirith appears comparatively smaller and more slender.
The drawing therefore supports the interpretation that the contrast between the two fortresses was not merely a matter of height. Tolkien appears to have conceived Barad-dûr as a structure of greater overall mass and vertical dominance: an artificial mountain of iron and stone rather than simply a taller tower.
Another important piece of art is the (NoME) Nature of Middle Earth chapter that comments on the Pauline Baynes illustrations which Tolkien himself chose to depict Middle Earth:
(NoME, Part II chapter VI: Description of Characters, page 191):
>"In 1970 Allen & Unwin published a poster-sized Map of Middle-earth, executed by the artist Pauline Baynes, and based upon that included in The Lord of the Rings. On the map itself are a series of vignettes portraying various locations significant to the story, such as the Barrow-Downs and Minas Tirith[...]"*
>"On seeing the finished art, Tolkien wrote a set of comments on these depictions of places and characters."*
>Some of these comments are appreciative: e.g. Tolkien found four of the vignettes, sc.* those depicting the Teeth of Mordor, the Argonath, Barad-dûr, and Minas Morgul, particularly well-executed, and described them as agreeing “remarkably with my own vision… Minas Morgul is almost exact”
What concerns us here, however, is the illustration made by Pauline Baynes of Barad-dûr; the depiction makes the tower seem not only impossibly tall but also broad.
I recommend looking at the map itself, both because it is beautiful and because Tolkien praised several of its depictions as agreeing remarkably with his own vision.
This brings me to the next point which will be built upon this one as means of establishing a visual picture of the fortress.
The aforementioned vignette depicts the Dark Tower as a massive complex of stone rather than the slender tower most artists depict, an impression reinforced by the following passage from
[The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, chapter X:The Breaking of the Fellowship page 401]
>"[...]and the haunted Mountains, and it looked upon Gorgoroth, the valley of terror in the Land of Mordor. Darkness lay there under the Sun. Fire glowed amid the smoke. Mount Doom was burning, and a great reek rising. Then at last his gaze was held: wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong, mountain of iron, gate of steel, tower of adamant, he saw it: Barad-dûr, Fortress of Sauron. All hope left him.
Unlike the descriptions of darkness ,these phrases are clearly architectural: walls, battlements, gates, and towers. They therefore provide stronger evidence for the physical loftiness and broadness of Barad-dûr itself.
Particularly striking is the description "mountain of iron," which, admittedly, could be figurative. However, the comments in NoME and the earlier comparison to a thunder-cloud suggest otherwise.
To further support my argument, I will include additional evidence from the chapter "Mount Doom." This evidence may be the least reliable, since Tolkien usually describes the fortress in metaphorical rather than architectural terms until its fall.
Nevertheless, I believe the following passages support my interpretation.
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III Mount Doom, page 934-935)
>"[...]But as they went the most easterly of the roads followed them, until it ran off,* hugging the skirts of the mountains, away into a wall of black shadow far ahead. *Neither man nor orc now moved along its flat grey stretches; for the Dark Lord had almost completed the movement of his forces, and even in the fastness of his own realm he sought the secrecy of night, fearing the winds of the world that had turned against him, tearing aside his veils
>[...]But far worse than all such perils was the ever-approaching threat that beat upon them as they went:* the dreadful menace of the Power that waited, brooding in deep thought and sleepless malice behind the dark veil about its Throne. Nearer and nearer it drew, looming blacker, like the oncoming of a wall of night at the last end of the world."
At this point Frodo and Sam are taking the road that goes northwest to the Isenmouthe from Barad-dûr and will soon move away from it across the plateau to reach Mount Doom.
The fortress has been described as a "mountain of iron," a "wall of night," a "tower of adamant," and a looming black shadow; of course, these descriptions could all be metaphorical, which leads to my next point.
The narrator also provides approximate heights for both the Morgai and Orodruin, allowing a rough comparison between them.
The Morgai rises roughly 1,500 feet above the plain, while Orodruin stands approximately 4,500 feet high (with Sammath Naur likely being around 4,300 feet, judging from Tolkien's drawing), as we read:
(RoTk, Mount Doom, Book VI, chapter III, page 941)
>"[...]The Mountain standing ominous and alone had looked taller than it was. Sam saw now that it was less lofty than the high passes of the Ephel Dúath which he and Frodo had scaled.* The confused and tumbled shoulders of its great base rose for maybe three thousand feet above the plain, and above them was reared half as high again its tall central cone, like a vast oast or chimney capped with a jagged crater."
The Fortress then could be inferred with a reasonable degree of certainty that it rivalled or possibly even surpassed Mount Doom in height as its shadows rose above it.
Further evidence of the scale of the fortress comes when Frodo and Sam are climbing towards the Sammath Naur and the veils of the fortress are removed:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 942)
>"Far off the shadows of Sauron hung; but torn by some gust of wind out of the world, or else moved by some great disquiet within, the mantling clouds swirled, and for a moment drew aside; and then he saw, rising black, blacker and darker than the vast shades amid which it stood,* the cruel pinnacles and iron crown of the topmost tower of Barad-dûr. One moment only it stared out, but as from some great window immeasurably high there stabbed northward a flame of red, the flicker of a piercing Eye; and then the shadows were furled again and the terrible vision was removed."
So it is strongly implied that Barad-dûr was surrounded by, or associated with, a mantle of shadow and that when the veils briefly parted Frodo caught sight of the pinnacles and crown of its highest tower
The use of the word "topmost" also suggests that Barad-dûr possessed multiple towers, with the one seen by Frodo being the highest.
However, when the shadows briefly parted, Frodo perceived architectural features of Barad-dûr itself: its pinnacles, iron crown, topmost tower, and an immensely high window. While the passage does not allow a precise measurement of its dimensions, it does reinforce the impression of extraordinary verticality.
Taken together, this evidence suggests that Barad-dûr may have approached the scale of a mountain in Tolkien's mind.
I will now refer to Parma Eldalamberon and the Sindarin root for Barad to further my argument:
[From PE XVII Words, Phrases and Passages in various tongues in The Lord of The Rings, page 22 and 85]
>The names Elbereth, Gilthoniel, Fanuilos. These refer to the great Vala called in Quenya
>Varda, "the Lofty." In Sindarin Elbereth (rarely Bereth) is her usual name, the other two are"titles."*
>Q Varda is <barada[which would be in Sindarin bara'o]. This root, which seems to express great height combined with strength, size, majesty, appears in several variant forms:
>(1) ...JBARAT, (2) ...JBARATH, (3)* BARAD (4) BARAS. From (1) is derived: S barad, a great "towering building, (fort, city, castle) tower; [also brand, brann 'towering', "tall and massive"(or to noun brand, steeple): cf. Tol Brandir, Isle of the Great Steeples: it was a great upstanding mass ending in two major and two minor steeples.] "*
>"Barad-dur; barad 'a great towering building, (fort, city, castle) tower'; dur 'dark"***
>"[See I 250 s.v. Elbereth, I 259 s.v. mar. Cf. EQS barad 'tower', dur 'dark' ; Etym. BARAT-, N barad*
>'tower, fortress', 003, D6-, EN dur 'dark, sombre' ; Barad-dur 'the Dark Tower', TI 178.]*
The linguistic evidence from Parma Eldalamberon further refines this interpretation. The BARAT / BARAD root is explicitly associated with concepts of great height, mass, and monumental structure, not merely a “tower.” Its derivatives include forms meaning “tall and massive,” suggesting that barad carries an inherent sense of vertical and horizontal magnitude.
Finally when the ring is cast into the cracks of Doom:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 947)
>"And there upon the dark threshold of the Sammath Naur, high above the plains of Mordor, such wonder and terror came on him that he stood still forgetting all else, and gazed as one turned to stone.
>A brief vision he had of swirling cloud, and in the midst of it towers and battlements, tall as hills, founded upon a mighty mountain-throne above immeasurable pits; great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and gaping gates of steel and adamant: and then all passed. Towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up, up, until they toppled like an overwhelming wave, and its wild crest curled and came foaming down upon the land. And then at last over the miles between there came a rumble rising to a deafening crash and roar; the earth shook, the plain heaved and cracked, and Orodruin reeled"
The description of a 'mountain-throne' is consistent with Tolkien's own illustration of Barad-dûr, which depicts the fortress rising from a massive elevated foundation, this mass most likely being the foundations that couldn't be destroyed by The Last Alliance, this spur also raised the already tall fortress even further above everything else.
The narrative mentions great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and, most remarkably, gaping gates of steel. Based on Christopher Tolkien's map, Sam was also standing over four thousand feet a above the plain at the Sammath Naur and 31 miles from the fortress giving him a clear view of Barad-dûr.
Between the elevation of both landmarks and the unusual nature of the vision itself, I think it's entirely plausible that he genuinely witnessed Barad-dûr collapsing.
It is also possible that Tolkien heightened some of the detail for literary effect, but I don't think those possibilities necessarily exclude one another.
The precise nature of Sam's "brief vision" remains open to interpretation. It may represent heightened perception associated with the Ring, literary narration, or a combination of these possibilities, since Tolkien does not specify.
Regardless of the exact nature of Sam's vision, its imagery is among the strongest evidence for Barad-dûr's immense scale: towers compared to hills, vast courts, dungeons, cliffs, and gates of steel and adamant."
The next argument draws upon The Silmarillion and Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings.
(The Silmarillion,Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, page 352)
>"[...]Therefore they made that League which is called the Last Alliance, and they marched east into Middle-earth gathering a great host of Elves and Men; and they halted for a while at Imladris. It is said that the host that was there assembled was fairer and more splendid in arms than any that has since been seen in Middle-earth, and none greater has been mustered since the host of the Valar went against Thangorodrim."
Then:
(Appendix B: The Tale of Years, The Second age, page 1084 )
>"S.A 3434: The host of the Alliance crosses the Misty Mountains. Battle of Dagorlad and defeat of Sauron.* Siege of Barad-dûr begins
>S.A3440 Anárion slain.
>S.A 3441 Sauron overthrown by Elendil and Gil-galad, who perish. Isildur takes the One Ring. Sauron passes away and the Ringwraiths go into the shadows. The Second Age ends."
Seven long years they besieged Barad Dûr and the greatest army in the world at that time couldn't break through.
How could the Last Alliance fail to breach Barad-dûr for seven years? While several explanations are possible, I would argue that its immense size, the capacity to sustain a prolonged siege, and alternate routes although to a much lesser degree as the fortress was being sieged and comminication cut off is part of the answer as the next passage reveals:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 942)
>"[...]He did not know it, but he was looking at Sauron’s Road from Barad-dûr to the Sammath Naur, the Chambers of Fire. Out from the Dark Tower’s huge western gate it came over a deep abyss by a vast bridge of iron, and then passing into the plain it ran for a league between two smoking chasms, and so reached a long sloping causeway that led up on to the Mountain’s eastern side."
So it is safe to assume the Sauron road and the Isenmouthe road were the most used but not the only ones; as stated by the text and seen in the illustration by Tolkien having a bridge going east and Mount Doom being west of the fortress and down the Plateau.
[RoTK, Book VI, chapter II :The Land of Shadow,page 923 ]
>"Neither he nor Frodo knew anything of the great slave-worked fields away south in this wide realm, beyond the fumes of the Mountain by the dark sad waters of Lake Núrnen; nor of the great roads that ran away east and south to tributary lands, from which the soldiers of the Tower brought long waggon-trains of goods and booty and fresh slaves. Here in the northward regions were the mines and forges, and the musterings of long-planned war"
My final argument concerns the topography of Barad-dûr itself. Tolkien's aforementioned illustration(see point 6 above) of the fortress provides what is perhaps our clearest view of the "foundations" mentioned in The Council of Elrond: the vast stone platform upon which Barad-dûr stood:
[FoTR, Book II, Chapter II: The Council of Elrond, page 244]
>"Fruitless did I call the victory of the Last Alliance? Not wholly so, yet it did not achieve its end. Sauron was diminished, but not destroyed. His Ring was lost but not unmade.* The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were not removed*; for they were made with the power of the Ring, and while it remains they will endure."
We should also consider Pauline Baynes' previously mentioned map.
If we examine Mordor closely, Barad-dûr is depicted as taller than Orodruin and considerably broader than it is in most maps and artistic depictions.
The illustration also show a modest base beneath the tower that may represent these foundations.
A more speculative piece of evidence comes from Christopher Tolkien's map. Although the symbol for Barad-dûr is unlikely to represent a precise footprint, measuring it against the map's scale indicates dimensions considerably larger than one mile. Since such symbols are necessarily schematic, I instead adopt one square mile as a deliberately conservative estimate for the fortress's built area.
Even assuming a conservative area of only one square mile, the fortress would occupy roughly 2.59 million square metres.
For comparison, the Burj Khalifa—the tallest building in the world—occupies roughly 29,000 square meters.
Of course, this does not mean the entire area encompassing the fortress was covered with buildings. The fortress probably included open courts, roads, walls, workshops, barracks, and other structures. Even allowing for that, the available area remains enormous by the standards of both historical fortifications and modern buildings.
For further perspective, an area of one square mile is roughly three quarters the size of Central Park and approximately equal to London's Financial District.
The descriptions of Barad-dûr combine physical architecture with imagery of darkness and concealment. However, Tolkien appears to distinguish between the fortress itself and the supernatural shadows surrounding it.
"The 'veils' and 'mantle of shadow' associated with Sauron's stronghold appear to be manifestations of Sauron's power and will rather than extensions of the physical structure itself."
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 934)
>"Neither man nor orc now moved along its flat grey stretches; for the Dark Lord had almost completed the movement of his forces, and even in the fastness of his own realm he sought the secrecy of night, fearing the winds of the world that had turned against him, tearing aside his veils."
Here Tolkien uses the language of concealment rather than construction. The "veils" are something that can be torn aside by the winds of the world, suggesting a layer of darkness or associated with Sauron's power rather than an ordinary part of Barad-dûr.
Later, when Frodo approaches the Sammath Naur:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 942)
>"[...] but still far from the reeking summit, to a dark entrance that gazed back east straight to the Window of the Eye in Sauron’s shadow-mantled fortress."
The phrase "shadow-mantled fortress" is important because it separates two ideas: the fortress exists as a physical structure, while the shadow is a mantle placed upon it. This distinction allows Tolkien's descriptions of Barad-dûr to operate on two levels: an immense fortress of walls, towers, and foundations, and a centre of spiritual darkness radiating Sauron's will.
This interpretation is supported by
[Appendix B, Tale of the Years, The Great Years, 3019, March 9]
>Gandalf reaches Minas Tirith. Faramir leaves Henneth Annûn. Aragorn sets out from Erech and comes to Calembel. At dusk Frodo reaches the Morgul-road. Théoden comes to Dunharrow.* Darkness begins to flow out of Mordor.
This suggests that the darkness spreading from Mordor was presented as something more than merely the natural fumes of Orodruin.
The wording presents the darkness as an active force spreading from Mordor, rather than merely the smoke and fumes of Orodruin. While Tolkien does not precisely define the nature of this darkness, the language throughout The Lord of the Rings suggests that the shadow surrounding Barad-dûr and Mordor was both atmospheric and symbolic, reflecting the influence of Sauron.
Although this evidence could perhaps suggest that the fortress could have been lesser in scale, as clear dimensions in any shape or metric were never given in the narrative ; it also opens the possibility that it was broader and taller.
Nevertheless Tolkien did leave it to interpretation and describing the fortress and its surrounding in such vague terms invites the reader to imagine their own fortress or tower.
Since the apparent distance between Orodruin and Barad-dûr is not immediately obvious from the narrative, I also measured Christopher Tolkien's map using its printed scale:
6.5 mm = 10 miles
1 mm ≈ 1.54 miles
Measurements:
Morgai shelf to Orodruin: 27 mm ≈ 41.5 miles (closely matching "forty miles at least")
Orodruin to Barad-dûr: 22 mm ≈ 34 miles
Morgai shelf to Barad-dûr: 49 mm ≈ 75–76 miles
These measurements should not be taken as exact. The map symbols are necessarily schematic, especially for a structure as unusual as Barad-dûr. They do, however, provide a reasonable approximation of the relative distances involved.
Tolkien conceived Middle-earth as the distant mythological past of our own Earth. In Letter 211, Tolkien described the fall of Barad-dûr as occurring thousands of years before the present day:
>"I hope the, evidently long but undefined, gap in time between the Fall of Barad-dûr and our Days is sufficient for ‘literary credibility’, even for readers acquainted with what is known or surmised of ‘pre-history’."
>"I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as S.A. and T.A. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh."
Therefore, assuming Middle-earth follows the same physical principles as our own planet, the curvature of the Earth and the angular size of distant objects become relevant when considering the visibility of Barad-dûr from the Morgai.
Horizon Distance
The approximate distance to the horizon can be calculated with:
d ≈ 3.57 × √h
Where:
d = distance to the horizon in kilometres
h = observer elevation in metres
Frodo and Sam observed Mordor from the Morgai, which Tolkien describes as having a fall of approximately fifteen hundred feet. This gives an elevation of roughly:
h = 457 m
Therefore:
d ≈ 3.57 × √457
d ≈ 76 km
Thus, from an elevation of approximately 1,500 feet, the geometric horizon would be roughly 76 kilometres away.
However, Barad-dûr lay approximately 120 kilometres distant according to Christopher Tolkien's map. This means that the fortress was beyond the normal horizon from Frodo and Sam's viewpoint and could only be visible because of its extraordinary height, atmospheric refraction, or Tolkien's deliberate dramatic compression of geography.
The amount of obstruction caused by the Earth's curvature can be estimated with:
h ≈ d² / (2R)
Where:
h = height hidden by curvature
d = distance in kilometres
R = radius of the Earth (~6371 km)
For Barad-dûr at approximately 120 km:
h ≈ 120² / (2 × 6371)
h ≈ 1.1 km
At this distance, the curvature of the Earth introduces a horizon obstruction of roughly one kilometre. However, this does not mean that Barad-dûr itself would need to be over a kilometre tall, since Frodo and Sam were already standing approximately 457 metres (1500 feet)above the plain and Barad-dûr foundations contribute to its height both of this factors compensated for part of this effect.
The implication is that only the uppermost portions of a sufficiently tall structure would rise above the horizon, making the visible height and angular size of Barad-dûr crucial factors.
Angular Size
The apparent size of a distant object can be calculated with:
θ ≈ arctan(height / distance)
Where:
θ = angular size in degrees
height = visible height of the object
distance = distance from the observer
At a distance of approximately 120 kilometres:
A 500 metre visible structure:
θ ≈ arctan(500 / 120000)
θ ≈ 0.24°
A 1000 metre visible structure:
θ ≈ arctan(1000 / 120000)
θ ≈ 0.48°
A 1500 metre visible structure:
θ ≈ arctan(1500 / 120000)
θ ≈ 0.72°
For comparison, the Moon appears approximately 0.5° wide in the sky.
Although these values appear small numerically, they are visually significant. A structure with 1–1.5 kilometres of visible height at a distance of 120 kilometres would possess an apparent vertical size comparable to, or larger than, the Moon itself.
These calculations do not provide an exact height for Barad-dûr, since Tolkien never gives one. Their purpose is instead to establish the minimum scale required for the scene described in The Return of the King. A normal tower, even a large fortress, would not plausibly dominate the horizon from such a distance under the conditions described in Mordor.
For Barad-dûr to appear above the horizon from the Morgai, it would require an extraordinary visible height, consistent with Tolkien's descriptions of it as a "mountain of iron," a "tower of adamant," and a fortress whose "topmost tower" rose above the surrounding shadows even if a base gave it an edge for it to be seen from great distances.
While none of these pieces of evidence is conclusive on its own, together they point toward a remarkably consistent picture. Barad-dûr emerges not as an isolated tower, but as an immense fortress-city rising from a mountain-like foundation, with multiple towers, vast courts, bridges, gates, and walls.
Whether it ultimately exceeded Orodruin in height cannot be established with certainty. However, the cumulative textual and artistic evidence strongly supports the interpretation of Barad-dûr as an immense fortress-city: a structure of towers, walls, courts, foundations, and battlements whose scale approached that of the surrounding mountains.
Personally, I believe the evidence points to Barad-dûr itself surpassing Orodruin in height—or, at the very least, being of comparable height. The spur upon which it was built would have elevated the fortress still further above the plain.
I also believe it spread across a remarkably broad complex.
These observations also help explain the scale of devastation across the Plateau of Gorgoroth following the Ring's destruction.
I think Sam's account reflects an actual vision of Barad-dûr's destruction, even if Tolkien heightened some of the details for literary effect.
If you've read this far, thank you for indulging my fascination with Gorgoroth and The Dark "Tower".
I'd be interested to hear whether you think the textual evidence supports this interpretation.
Tolkien, J. R. R. (2023). The Lord of the Rings Illustrated by the Author: A Special Edition. HarperCollins Publishers. [Map of Gondor, Rohan and Mordor by Christopher Tolkien]
Tolkien, J. R. R. (2005). The Lord of the Rings: 50th Anniversary Edition. One-Volume Edition. HarperCollins Paperback. [pp. 244, 401, 922–923, 934, 941–942, 944, 947, 1084]
Tolkien, J. R. R., and Christopher Tolkien (eds.). (2002). The Silmarillion. Del Rey Books. [p. 352]
Tolkien, J. R. R., and Carl F. Hostetter (ed.). (2021). The Nature of Middle-earth. HarperCollins Publishers. [p. 191]
Tolkien: Maker of Middle-earth, eds Catherine McIlwaine. Oxford: Bodleian Library, 2018, [p 372]
Tolkien, J. R. R., and Christopher Gilson (ed.). (2007). Parma Eldalamberon XVII: Words, Phrases and Passages in Various Tongues in The Lord of the Rings. The Tolkien Trust. [pp. 22, 85]
Tolkien, J. R. R., Christopher Tolkien, and Pauline Baynes. (1969). A Map of Middle-earth. George Allen & Unwin.
Tolkien, J. R. R. (2021). Pictures by J. R. R. Tolkien. William Morrow. [Section 30]
Tolkien, J. R. R. (2023). The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien: Revised and Expanded Edition. Edited by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien. HarperCollins Publishers. [Letter 211]
I recently got the 2002 Alan Lee illustrated edition set of three volumes of Lord of the Rings and besides the missing final paragraph on the council on Elrond and the badly printed page on the forbidden pool, I found no other printing errors and the other features of the book are worth it to me, glossy paper, red clothbound, big reading format.
The set wasn't cheap(about $150.USD) and it was a second hand purchase, this bothers me a bit but not enough to say its catastrophic although other book collectors wll have different opinions, I can return it fortunately, but I do not know if I should, so I want different opinions.
I do have other copies of LoTR, 3 in fact(The 50th anniversary paperback, the 60th anniversary HC with the reader's companion and the illustrated by the author) so I will always have in mind what my copy is missing, besides I bought it so I could get the Alan Lee illustrations without going for the HC deluxe which many people say has quality issues or the out of reach and definitely better Folio edition but I want opinions on whether or not I should return them.
I have heard the newer HC illustrated by Alan Lee editions have worse illustration quality which would be a no go for me, but if the Deluxe HC and this 2002 have about the same illustration quality and I could get a good copy that would make go for those.
anyway thanks if you have read this far.
I have been using both Tecendil and Write English with Tengwar rules by Fiona Jallings and I realized something that I can't explain
Why is Rivendell's ND is written as Ando with a nasal tehta and tehtar e in Tecendil, the n seems to dissapear?
using the equivalence of these handbooks n is 17 and d is 5 in the tengwar chart so I wrote it as two distinct tengwa in the first line.
Reading a bit of appendix E the grade 2 corresponding with ando in Quenya ND is supposedly equivalent to the grade 2 which would be Ando and the only other explanation I have found is that the transcriber is using the shorthand for and but the handbook doesn't explain why that is.
I'm kind of lost could someone help me?
P.S Apologies if my writing is hard to understand.
Had to get my 5th copy of The Silmarillion, I gotta say the paper used for the illustrations is thick and of decent quality but nothing compared to the glossy illustrations of other Tolkien Books
I also had to get most Pauline Bayne's artwork for Middle Earth, though I am still missing the original poster of Bilbo's Last Song.
I found this tengwar inscription from The HoME series which I didn't found in the DTS, so can anyone verify if it is correct?
I also checked the sub for discussion on the Tengwar for HoME but couldn't find any info, maybe Christopher made this tengwar? maybe it was the publisher no idea.
Also could someone translate?
Maybe this has been discussed before but I had no idea.
Also while checking out previous versions of HoME the inscription is present.
History and validity on the inscription would be greatly appreciated.
Also I'm guessing is English mode like the LotR tengwar(?)
Does anybody know how rare is the HoME series in Spanish?
Been trying to find some copies but I believe they are rare.
Is it allowed to share the complete Parma Eldalamberon (Linguistic Journal discussing Tolkien languages)on this sub? I have all the issues digitized.
I have been compiling them and have had a hard time getting them all together so I would like to share as they are very rare to come across and mostly out of print.
An article explaning what is the journal for those interested in Tolkien Languages.
I do have the complete Vinyar Tengwar but that can be POD so I won't share that.
All credits to J.R.R Tolkien and Christopher Tolkien and Christopher Gilson and the Tolkien Trust.
Hopefully I will erase this post once they can get the Issues for POD
I am doing a thematic map of Middle Earth and I am wondering If Telecendil is good for the names of the places in Mordor(which I believe is Sindarin.
One question is, if its clear enough?
Should I change something?
Thanks in advance.
I want to give a shoutout to u/BowlofPentuniaThings from bringing this map and its beautiful vignettes to my attention:
From Nature of Middle Earth, Part II, Chapter VI,Descriptions of Characters, page 191 :
>In 1970 Allen & Unwin published a poster-sized Map of Middle-earth, executed by the artist Pauline Baynes, and based upon that included in The Lord of the Rings. On the map itself are a series of vignettes portraying various locations significant to the story, such as the Barrow-Downs and Minas Tirith; and above and below the map proper, Baynes depicted the members of the Fellowship of the Ring, the Black Riders, Gollum, Shelob, and other enemies of the West. On seeing the finished art, Tolkien wrote a set of comments on these depictions of places and characters. Some of these comments are appreciative: e.g. Tolkien found four of the vignettes, sc. those depicting the Teeth of Mordor, the Argonath, Barad-dûr, and Minas Morgul, particularly well-executed, and described them as agreeing “remarkably with my own vision … Minas Morgul is almost exact”; and he found the depiction of Aragorn good, those of Sam and Gimli “good enough”, and that of Boromir to be “the best figure, and most closely related to the text”. Other comments are less positive: e.g. of the vignettes he singled out those of Minas Tirith and Hobbiton for particular dislike; and of the depictions of characters he most disliked those of Gandalf, Legolas, Gollum, the Black Riders (though he found them “impressive as sinister cavaliers”, he decried the addition of “hats and plumes” and the “relief” of “their hell-black with elvish green”), and Shelob (faulting in particular the positioning of her legs as “all apparently growing out of her head”) – also that of Bill the Pony: “On the scale of the men and the hobbits Bill is no pony. Also he was represented as having become the special care and friend of Sam, who should be leading him”. In the course of these comments he offers details of how some of these characters appeared in his own vision (some of which have been presented elsewhere),as well as on the personality and roles of some, and these details are selected and arranged for presentation here.
Then from Tolkien Maker of Middle Earth, page 384:
>Westfield College, London Watercolour, 1952–2013 Collection: The Bodleian Libraries, University of Oxford MS. Tolkien Drawings 500
>Pauline Baynes was the only artist approved by Tolkien to illustrate his works during his lifetime. Their association began in 1949 when she was asked by his publisher to submit illustrations for his faux-medieval tale, Farmer Giles of Ham. Tolkien was delighted with them, declaring they are “more than illustrations, they are a collateral theme.” Shortly afterwards he recommended her to his friend C. S. Lewis, who needed an illustrator for The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. She went on to illustrate all the Narnia stories. She created this pictorial poster map of Middle-earth after extensive consultation with Tolkien. She added vignettes of many of the key places, as well as a header and footer showing the Fellowship and their pursuers. Of the vignettes Tolkien wrote, “some of these pictures agree remarkably with my own vision: especially the first four on the right (Minas Morgul is almost exact).”
>20 December 1949
>Dear Miss Baynes, May I just wish you a Happy Christmas. I meant to write you an answer to your letter of last June, but I became involved in examinations, the end of an academic existence, in this case involving two extended courses in Oxford. I am sorry that F.C., the author of which in Oxford seem (?) will have gone off, but you might at least as much by the help(?) as any others(?) else. I hear from my friend C. S. Lewis, who saw the original and was much impressed by your work, that he has got in touch with you. I have two (large) books to illustrate, one of a very practical kind that seemed in 1950 to be actually becoming production problems; and I shall very much hope that some illustrations or decorations will be part of the programme. In the case I hope you shall meet in what was the most likely point, London. Though I hope local good fortune brings you here, you must let me know. Very sincerely, J. R. R. Tolkien 21 Dec. Thank you so much for your charming(?) cards(?) and your (?) ... [bottom note is too faint/obscured to reliably transcribe]
The caption below the letter reads: Fig. 120 Letter from Tolkien to Baynes, expressing the hope that she will illustrate his unpublished works ‘The Silmarillion’ and ‘The Lord of the Rings’, 20 December 1949. (Image provided courtesy of The Marion E. Wade Center, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL)
I took a photo of the letter in question(in the book)
I also attach a link for you to download a 12k version of the map, so you can admire its complete detail; a warning though this version is a bit colder compared to the original.
Kind of a shame we do not have higher resolution images for this important piece of Middle Earth which is why I have brought it to you today.
A closer look at the vignettes by u/BowlofPentuniaThings
​ Very long post, so please bear with me.
I have recently been rereading the Lord of The Rings and the Plateau of Gorgoroth has been an obsession of mine as I reconstruct every nook and cranny of Frodo and Sam's Journey, this made me realize something that baffled me which you can kind of guess by the title.
1. Distances and Visibility
First, I would like to discuss the distances between the landmarks of the Plateau of Gorgoroth and how far they really are from each other, as the narrative tends to compress Frodo and Sam' journey toward Mount Doom.
As you may or may not know, Christopher Tolkien's map included in the Return of the King has a scale bar.
Using this scale, the distance between the Morgai and Mount Doom comes to roughly 40-43 miles (64.3km-69.2km).
Likewise, measuring from the same point to the centre of the Barad-dûr symbol gives a distance of roughly 75–76 miles, Barad-dûr then is approximately 120 km away from Frodo and Sam, making the following passage even more astonishing.
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter II, The Land of Shadow, page 922-923) :
>"[...]and passing through found themselves on the very edge of the last fence of Mordor. Below them, at the bottom of a fall of some fifteen hundred feet, lay the inner plain stretching away into a formless gloom beyond their sight.
>***"[...]Still far away, forty miles at least, they saw Mount Doom**, its feet founded in ashen ruin, its huge cone rising to a great height, where its reeking head was swathed in cloud. [...]Behind it there hung a vast shadow, ominous as a thunder-cloud, the veils of Barad-dûr that was reared far away upon a long spur of the Ashen Mountains thrust down from the North. "
Thus, from an elevation of roughly 1,500 feet on the Morgai, Frodo and Sam could distinguish Barad-dûr and its looming shadow even though it lay some forty miles farther away than Mount Doom.
From this first description, Barad-dûr appears less like an isolated tower and more like a vast looming presence being compared to a Thunder-cloud.
Nevertheless, the imagery is significant: Tolkien presents Barad-dûr not simply as a building, but as the centre of a vast and oppressive presence dominating Mordor."
2. Tolkien's Approved Illustrations
Next is the (NoME) Nature of Middle Earth chapter that comments on the Pauline Baynes illustrations which Tolkien himself chose to depict Middle Earth:
(NoME, Part II chapter VI: Description of Characters, page 191):
>"In 1970 Allen & Unwin published a poster-sized Map of Middle-earth, executed by the artist Pauline Baynes, and based upon that included in The Lord of the Rings. On the map itself are a series of vignettes portraying various locations significant to the story, such as the Barrow-Downs and Minas Tirith[...]
>On seeing the finished art, Tolkien wrote a set of comments on these depictions of places and characters. Some of these comments are appreciative: e.g. Tolkien found four of the vignettes, sc. those depicting the Teeth of Mordor, the Argonath, Barad-dûr, and Minas Morgul, particularly well-executed, and described them as agreeing “remarkably with my own vision … Minas Morgul is almost exact”
I recommend looking at the map itself, both because it is beautiful and because Tolkien praised several of its depictions as agreeing "remarkably with my own vision."
This brings me to the next point which will be built upon this one as means of establishing a visual picture of the fortress.
3. Architectural Language and Prose
What concerns us here, however, is the illustration made by Pauline Baynes of Barad-dûr; the depiction makes the tower seem not only impossibly tall but also broad.
It resembles a massive complex of stone rather than the slender tower most artists depict, an impression reinforced by the following passage from
[The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, chapter X:The Breaking of the Fellowship page 401]
>"[...]and the haunted Mountains, and it looked upon Gorgoroth, the valley of terror in the Land of Mordor. Darkness lay there under the Sun. Fire glowed amid the smoke. Mount Doom was burning, and a great reek rising. Then at last his gaze was held: wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong,* mountain of iron,*gate of steel, tower of adamant, he saw it: Barad-dûr, Fortress of Sauron. All hope left him.
Unlike the descriptions of Sauron's darkness and veils, these phrases are clearly architectural: walls, battlements, gates, and towers. They therefore provide stronger evidence for the physical characteristics of Barad-dûr itself.
Particularly striking is the description "mountain of iron," which, admittedly, could be figurative. However, the comments in NoME and the earlier comparison to a thunder-cloud suggest otherwise.
To further support my argument, I will include additional evidence from the chapter "Mount Doom." This evidence may be the least reliable, since Tolkien usually describes the fortress in metaphorical rather than architectural terms until its fall. Nevertheless, I believe the following passages support my interpretation.
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III Mount Doom, page 934-935)
>"[...]But as they went the most easterly of the roads followed them, until it ran off, hugging the skirts of the mountains, away into a wall of black shadow far ahead*. Neither man nor orc now moved along its flat grey stretches; for the Dark Lord had almost completed the movement of his forces, and even in the fastness of his own realm he sought the secrecy of night, fearing the winds of the world that had turned against him, tearing aside his veils[...]*But far worse than all such perils was the ever-approaching threat that beat upon them as they went: the dreadful menace of the Power that waited, brooding in deep thought and sleepless malice behind the dark veil about its Throne. Nearer and nearer it drew, looming blacker, like the oncoming of a wall of night at the last end of the world." *
At this point Frodo and Sam are taking the road that goes northwest to the Isenmouthe from Barad-dûr and will soon move away from it across the land to reach Mount Doom.
The fortress has been described as a "mountain of iron," a "wall of night," a "tower of adamant," and a looming black shadow; of course, these descriptions could all be metaphorical, which leads to my next point.
4. The Height of Barad-dûr
The narrator also provides approximate heights for both the Morgai and Orodruin, allowing a rough comparison between them.
The Morgai rises roughly 1,500 feet above the plain, while Orodruin stands approximately 4,500 feet high (with Sammath Naur likely being around 4,300 feet, judging from Tolkien's drawing), as we read:
(RoTk, Mount Doom, Book VI, chapter III, page 941) >"[...]The Mountain standing ominous and alone had looked taller than it was. Sam saw now that it was less lofty than the high passes of the Ephel Dúath which he and Frodo had scaled. The confused and tumbled shoulders of its great base rose for maybe three thousand feet above the plain, and above them was reared half as high again its tall central cone, like a vast oast or chimney capped with a jagged crater."
The Fortress then could be inferred with a reasonable degree of certainty that it rivalled or possibly even surpassed Mount Doom in height as its shadows rose above it.
Further evidence of the scale of the fortress comes when Frodo and Sam are climbing towards the Sammath Naur and the veils of the fortress are removed:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 942)
>* "Far off the shadows of Sauron hung; but torn by some gust of wind out of the world, or else moved by some great disquiet within, the mantling clouds swirled, and for a moment drew aside; and then he saw, rising black, blacker and darker than the vast shades amid which it stood, the cruel pinnacles and iron crown of the topmost tower of Barad-dûr. One moment only it stared out, but as from some great window immeasurably high there stabbed northward a flame of red, the flicker of a piercing Eye; and then the shadows were furled again and the terrible vision was removed." *
So it is strongly implied that Barad-dûr was surrounded by, or associated with, a mantle of shadow and that when the veils briefly parted Frodo caught sight of the pinnacles and crown of its highest tower.
The use of the word "topmost" also suggests that Barad-dûr possessed multiple towers, with the one seen by Frodo being the highest.
Pauline Baynes' illustration of Barad-dûr depicts these towers as relatively comparable in height, lending some support to that interpretation.
However, when the shadows briefly parted, Frodo perceived architectural features of Barad-dûr itself: *its pinnacles, iron crown, topmost tower, and an immensely high window. While the passage does not allow a precise measurement of its dimensions, it does reinforce the impression of extraordinary verticality.
Taken together, this evidence suggests that Barad-dûr may have approached the scale of a mountain in Tolkien's mind.
5. The Meaning of Barad
I will now refer to Parma Eldalamberon and the Sindarin root for Barad and Dûr to further my argument:
[From PE XVII Words, Phrases and Passages in various tongues in The Lord of The Rings, page 22 and 85]
>The names Elbereth, Gilthoniel, Fanuilos. These refer to the great Vala called in Quenya Varda, "the Lofty." In Sindarin Elbereth (rarely Bereth) is her usual name, the other two are "titles." Q *Varda is < barada [which would be in Sindarin bara'o]. This root, which seems to express great height combined with strength, size, majesty, appears in several variant forms: (1) ...JBARAT, (2) ...JBARATH, (3) BARAD, (4) BARAS. From (1) is derived: S barad, a great towering building, (fort, city, castle) tower; [also brand, brann 'towering', "tall and massive" (or to noun brand, steeple): cf. Tol Brandir, Isle of the Great Steeples: it was a great upstanding mass ending in two major and two minor steeples.] "
>"Barad-dur; barad 'a great towering building, (fort, city, castle) tower' ; dur 'dark"
>"[See I 250 s.v. Elbereth, I 259 s.v. mar. Cf. EQS barad 'tower', dur 'dark' ; Etym. BARAT-, N barad 'tower, fortress', 003, D6-, EN dur 'dark, sombre' ; Barad-dur 'the Dark Tower', TI 178.]"
The linguistic evidence from Parma Eldalamberon further refines this interpretation. The BARAT / BARAD root is explicitly associated with concepts of great height, mass, and monumental structure, not merely a “tower.” Its derivatives include forms meaning “tall and massive,” suggesting that barad carries an inherent sense of vertical and horizontal magnitude.
In this light, Barad-dûr can be read less as a descriptive label for a single architectural form, and more as a linguistic expression of overwhelming built presence—consistent with the repeated emphasis on scale, shadow, and dominance in the text.
6. Sam's Vision and the destruction of the One Ring
Finally when the ring is cast into the cracks of Doom:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 947)
>"And there upon the dark threshold of the Sammath Naur, high above the plains of Mordor, such wonder and terror came on him that he stood still forgetting all else, and gazed as one turned to stone. A brief vision he had of swirling cloud, and in the midst of it towers and battlements, tall as hills, founded upon a mighty mountain-throne above immeasurable pits; great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and gaping gates of steel and adamant: and then all passed. Towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up, up, until they toppled like an overwhelming wave, and its wild crest curled and came foaming down upon the land. And then at last over the miles between there came a rumble, rising to a deafening crash and roar; the earth shook, the plain heaved and cracked, and Orodruin reeled"
The description of a 'mountain-throne' is consistent with Tolkien's own illustration of Barad-dûr, which depicts the fortress rising from a massive elevated foundation, this mass most likely being the foundations that couldn't be destroyed by The Last Alliance, this spur also raised the already tall fortress even further above everything else.
The narrative mentions great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and, most remarkably, gaping gates of steel. Based on Christopher Tolkien's map, Sam was also standing over four thousand feet above the plain at the Sammath Naur, giving him a commanding view across Gorgoroth.
Between the elevation of both landmarks and the unusual nature of the vision itself, I think it's entirely plausible that he genuinely witnessed Barad-dûr collapsing.
It is also possible that Tolkien heightened some of the detail for literary effect, but I don't think those possibilities necessarily exclude one another.
The precise nature of Sam's "brief vision" remains open to interpretation. It may represent heightened perception associated with the Ring, literary narration, or a combination of these possibilities, since Tolkien does not specify.
Regardless of the exact nature of Sam's vision, its imagery is among the strongest evidence for Barad-dûr's immense scale: towers compared to hills, vast courts, dungeons, cliffs, and gates of steel and adamant."
7. The War of the Last Alliance and the siege of Barad-dûr
The next argument draws upon The Silmarillion and Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings.
(The Silmarillion,Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, page 352)
>"[...]Therefore they made that League which is called the Last Alliance, and they marched east into Middle-earth gathering a great host of Elves and Men; and they halted for a while at Imladris. It is said that the host that was there assembled was fairer and more splendid in arms than any that has since been seen in Middle-earth, and none greater has been mustered since the host of the Valar went against Thangorodrim."
Then: (Appendix B: The Tale of Years, The Second age, page 1084 )
>"S.A 3434: The host of the Alliance crosses the Misty Mountains. Battle of Dagorlad and defeat of Sauron. Siege of Barad-dûr begins
>S.A3440 Anárion slain.
>S.A 3441 Sauron overthrown by Elendil and Gil-galad, who perish. Isildur takes the One Ring. Sauron passes away and the Ringwraiths go into the shadows. The Second Age ends.*"
Seven long years they besieged Barad Dûr and the greatest army in the world at that time couldn't break through.
How could the Last Alliance fail to breach Barad-dûr for seven years? While several explanations are possible, I would argue that its immense size, the capacity to sustain a prolonged siege, and alternate routes out of the fortress formed part of the answer as the next passage reads:
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 942)
>"[...]He did not know it, but he was looking at Sauron’s Road from Barad-dûr to the Sammath Naur, the Chambers of Fire. Out from the Dark Tower’s huge western gate it came over a deep abyss by a vast bridge of iron, and then passing into the plain it ran for a league between two smoking chasms, and so reached a long sloping causeway that led up on to the Mountain’s eastern side."
So it is safe to assume the Sauron road and the Isenmouthe road were the most used but not the only ones; as stated by the text and seen in the illustration by Tolkien having a bridge going east and Mount Doom being west of the fortress and down the Plateau.
[RoTK, Book VI, chapter II :The Land of Shadow,page 923 ]
>"Neither he nor Frodo knew anything of the great slave-worked fields away south in this wide realm, beyond the fumes of the Mountain by the dark sad waters of Lake Núrnen; nor of the great roads that ran away east and south to tributary lands, from which the soldiers of the Tower brought long waggon-trains of goods and booty and fresh slaves. Here in the northward regions were the mines and forges, and the musterings of long-planned war"
8. Foundations, Scale, and Topography
My final argument concerns the topography of Barad-dûr itself. Tolkien's own illustration of the fortress provides what is perhaps our clearest view of the "foundations" mentioned in The Council of Elrond: the vast stone platform upon which Barad-dûr stood:
[FoTR, Book II, Chapter II: The Council of Elrond, page 244]
>"Fruitless did I call the victory of the Last Alliance? Not wholly so, yet it did not achieve its end. Sauron was diminished, but not destroyed. His Ring was lost but not unmade. The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring, and while it remains they will endure."
Another source Tolkien himself approved and we should consider is Pauline Baynes' own map. If we examine Mordor closely, Barad-dûr is depicted as taller than Orodruin and considerably broader than it is in most maps and artistic depictions. The illustration also appears to show a substantial base beneath the tower that may represent these foundations.
A more speculative piece of evidence comes from Christopher Tolkien's map. Although the symbol for Barad-dûr is unlikely to represent a precise footprint, measuring it against the map's scale indicates dimensions considerably larger than one mile. Since such symbols are necessarily schematic, I instead adopt one square mile as a deliberately conservative estimate for the fortress's built area.
Even assuming a conservative area of only one square mile, the fortress would occupy roughly 2.59 million square metres.
For comparison, the Burj Khalifa—the tallest building in the world—occupies roughly 29,000 square meters.
Of course, this does not mean the entire area encompassing the fortress was covered with buildings. The fortress probably included open courts, roads, walls, workshops, barracks, and other structures. Even allowing for that, the available area remains enormous by the standards of both historical fortifications and modern buildings.
For further perspective, an area of one square mile is roughly three quarters the size of Central Park and approximately equal to London's Financial District.
9. Measuring the map
Since the apparent distance between Orodruin and Barad-dûr is not immediately obvious from the narrative, I also measured Christopher Tolkien's map using its printed scale:
6.5 mm = 10 miles
1 mm ≈ 1.54 miles
Measurements: Morgai shelf to Orodruin: 27 mm ≈ 41.5 miles (closely matching "forty miles at least")
Orodruin to Barad-dûr: 22 mm ≈ 34 miles
Morgai shelf to Barad-dûr: 49 mm ≈ 75–76 miles
These measurements should not be taken as exact. The map symbols are necessarily schematic, especially for a structure as unusual as Barad-dûr. They do, however, provide a reasonable approximation of the relative distances involved.
10. The Nature of the Veils of Barad-dûr
The descriptions of Barad-dûr combine physical architecture with imagery of darkness and concealment. However, Tolkien appears to distinguish between the fortress itself and the supernatural shadows surrounding it.
"The 'veils' and 'mantle of shadow' associated with Sauron's stronghold appear to be manifestations of Sauron's power and will rather than extensions of the physical structure itself."
(RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 934)
>"Neither man nor orc now moved along its flat grey stretches; for the Dark Lord had almost completed the movement of his forces, and even in the fastness of his own realm he sought the secrecy of night, fearing the winds of the world that had turned against him, tearing aside his veils."
Here Tolkien uses the language of concealment rather than construction. The "veils" are something that can be torn aside by the winds of the world, suggesting a layer of darkness or associated with Sauron's power rather than an ordinary part of Barad-dûr.
Later, when Frodo approaches the Sammath Naur: (RoTK, Book VI, Chapter III, Mount Doom, page 942)
>"[...] but still far from the reeking summit, to a dark entrance that gazed back east straight to the Window of the Eye in Sauron’s shadow-mantled fortress."
The phrase "shadow-mantled fortress" is important because it separates two ideas: the fortress exists as a physical structure, while the shadow is a mantle placed upon it. This distinction allows Tolkien's descriptions of Barad-dûr to operate on two levels: an immense fortress of walls, towers, and foundations, and a centre of spiritual darkness radiating Sauron's will.
This interpretation is supported by [Appendix B, Tale of the Years, The Great Years, 3019, March 9]
>Gandalf reaches Minas Tirith. Faramir leaves Henneth Annûn. Aragorn sets out from Erech and comes to Calembel. At dusk Frodo reaches the Morgul-road. Théoden comes to Dunharrow. Darkness begins to flow out of Mordor.
This suggests that the darkness spreading from Mordor was presented as something more than merely the natural fumes of Orodruin.
The wording presents the darkness as an active force spreading from Mordor, rather than merely the smoke and fumes of Orodruin. While Tolkien does not precisely define the nature of this darkness, the language throughout The Lord of the Rings suggests that the shadow surrounding Barad-dûr and Mordor was both atmospheric and symbolic, reflecting the influence of Sauron.
Conclusion
***While none of these pieces of evidence is conclusive on its own, together they point toward a remarkably consistent picture. Barad-dûr emerges not as an isolated tower, but as an immense fortress-city rising from a mountain-like foundation, with multiple towers, vast courts, bridges, gates, and walls.
Whether it ultimately exceeded Orodruin in height cannot be established with certainty. However, the cumulative textual and artistic evidence strongly supports the interpretation of Barad-dûr as an immense fortress-city: a structure of towers, walls, courts, foundations, and battlements whose scale approached that of the surrounding mountains.***
Afterword
Personally, I believe the evidence points to Barad-dûr itself surpassing Orodruin in height—or, at the very least, being of comparable height. The spur upon which it was built would have elevated the fortress still further above the plain. I also believe it spread across a remarkably broad complex.
These observations also help explain the scale of devastation across the Plateau of Gorgoroth following the Ring's destruction.
I also believe Sam's account reflects an actual vision of Barad-dûr's destruction, even if Tolkien heightened some of the details for literary effect.
If you've read this far, thank you for indulging my fascination with Gorgoroth and The Dark "Tower". I'd be interested to hear whether you think the textual evidence supports this interpretation.
(If you find any grammar mistakes or formatting issues , I apologize as I am on mobile and English is not my first Language)
Edit:Added several sources that were missing, chiefly Pelma Eldalamberon, a close-up of Pauline Baynes' map, and links to the individual vignettes mentioned in NoME.
Bibliography
J.R.R Tolkien (2023)The Lord of the Rings Illustrated by the Author: A Special Edition,HarperCollins [map of Gondor, Rohan and Mordor by Christopher Tolkien]
J.R.R Tolkien The Lord of the Rings: 50th Anniversary (2005), One Vol. Edition,HarperCollins Paperback [pages 244, 401, 922-923, 934, 941, 942, 944 ,947, 1084]
J.R.R Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien, (2002)The Silmarillion, Del Rey Books,[pg 352]
J.R.R Tolkien, Carl F. Hostetter, (2021)Nature of Middle Earth,HarperCollinsPublishers. [pg 191]
J.R.R Tolkien, Christopher Gilson, Parma Eldalamberon XVII(2007), Words, Phrases and Passages in various tongues in The Lord of The Rings, The Tolkien Trust. [pages 22 and 85]
J.R.R Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien, Pauline Baynes (1969) A Map of Middle Earth, George Allen & Unwin.
J.R.R Tolkien, Pictures by J.R.R. Tolkien(2021) William Morrow, section 30.
