u/Glass-Nectarine-3282

So two years ago, I read Volume 3 for the first time: https://www.reddit.com/r/OmnibusCollectors/comments/1co5kce/whats_the_worst_daredevil_omni_and_why_is_it/

At the time, I thought it was the weakest of the three SA/BA omnis that I had read. But what I hadn't done is read them in order. So they were all sort of out of context.

I've now read Vol 1-3 in order, and I can assess them fairly within the run, and Vol. 3 is quite a bit better than I had considered it the first time.

Doesn't mean it's "good," but some of the flaws that I noted aren't as bad as they are in Vol. 2, and I didn't give Gerry Conway enough credit. He writes about 25 issues give-or-take, and he was JUST on the cusp of really presenting the relationships in a decent way, even if Matt is still whiny and ridiculous.

The HUGE difference between Vol. 2 and 3 is that Conway accepts that Matt IS a douchebag, but Matt also KNOWS he is a douchebag. He is three-dimensional.

Roy Thomas in Vol. 2 writes Matt as a douchebag who THINKS he's cool, and it flagrantly doesn't work. Plus, Thomas never gives him any dimension. It's not his fault, I'm sure he was more interested in other titles, and DD was a B-lister.

Conway knows how to write a whiny, melancholy, self-loathing crybaby and have the person aware of his own flaws. Now, granted that it's not that deep and I'm giving Conway more credit than maybe's on the page, but the roots are there. So Vol. 3 is fair to the character, and a genuine effort at the writing, and it's Vol. 2 that is actually the weakest.

Conway is too young to really grasp Matt and Natasha's relationship (or Karen), and it's toxic and co-dependant, but he's doing the best he can and it does feel real. Because Matt's an adult, it reads kind of pitiful, but is why Spider-Man is much better at some of the same premises, because the age fits.

When Steve Gerber takes over, he moves past Matt-Natasha, and then he's into Moondragon and some cosmic adventures and it's just Gerber being Gerber. It doesn't fit the DD that's been established. It's fine, but his take on the character never gets a good grip.

If Conway had written the full 40 issues or so, I think he could have found a solid footing. He was really coming into his own by his run's end.

I was going to go to Miller after this, but I'll wait till I get Vol. 4, and read that and THEN go into Miller so I can see the big shift in context.

Edited just to add that the big problem with early Daredevil is just the fault of the street-level settings. Because they can't get TOO crazy with plots, the relationships have to be a strong focus, and there's only so far they can go in this era.

Gene Colan's art is a huge factor in keeping the whole thing together. A lesser artist would have doomed the series, IMO.

Bottom line - I would rank them 1-3-2 in terms of quality.

Vol. 1 - wacky and silly, but Stan Lee knows not to take it seriously

Vol. 2 - running in place, weak character development, Thomas doesn't see Matt's bad personality traits as the negatives they are

Vol. 3 - solid development even if it's not top level. Conway knows what he's doing, Matt becomes an honest, flawed hero; Gerber's fine, but this character doesn't fit his style.

So just like Volume One, this is the expected Silver/early Bronze style so that's all fine.

I had read this awhile back, and like when I read Vol. 1, the first time, some of the questionable choices don't jump out. Gene Colan's art makes a huge difference in making this readable.

So Roy Thomas takes over for Stan, and he keeps the overall approach, but doesn't fix some of the fundamental problems, and then adds problems with some of the choices.

Matt - fundamentally - is a douchebag.

In Vol. 1, he create Mike Murdock to pose as Daredevil and flirt with Karen. Then he fakes that death, and then fakes his OWN death, because he's all boo-hoo about Karen, so he thinks if Matt dies then Karen will want to be with Daredevil. He confronts Karen, reveals his identity, also reveals that he has faked his death - twice - but NOW he's prepared to be with her. Because you know he's so honest and ready for a relationship.

Karen can't handle this, so she flees to LA. Matt follows her - despite her express wishes that she needs to get away from him to work things out, stalks her, rescues her from an attack by one of her co-actors.

Then, when he just appears in LA out of the blue to save her, he gets angry at Karen when she accidentally calls him Matt - even though he literally just dropped out of thin air while she was being strangled by Brother Brimstone. That's the FIRST thing he says, is to give her a hard time about using his real name. And she says she deserves it!

And then Foggy needs him back in NYC and he gets offended when Karen says she doesn't know what to do still needs more time and he gets annoyed and tells Karen he won't wait forever - but HE followed HER. It's diabolical.

Now - if Bendis or Brubaker were writing this, it would be fine, because they would understand the psychological/romantic/co-dependent problems that are in evidence. They could write from an adult perspective and this behavior becomes part of the plot.

Roy Thomas is not up to that at this stage. He writes it literally, like the reader should be on Matt's side and I'm sorry but in 2026, that isn't possible. Matt's not sort of in the wrong, he's all the way wrong. His behavior toward Karen is despicable. I'm not talking that one specific example, it's the whole relationship. There are many letters that call this out, and they say "well, just stay tuned!" but they never fix it. So it's not like this is 2026 revisionism, people were aware of some of this back in 1970 too.

(never mind that Karen does not have a line of dialogue or thought that does not somehow connect back to Matt. She is very one-dimensional even by Silver Age's standards for women)

So that is the fatal flaw with the run - it's not solvable. If they could go back in time, Matt should have revealed his identity to Karen and Foggy right from the start, and that would have solved a lot of these nonsensical issues.

Now, never mind that the other plot lines are Foggy is the DA, and that somehow Daredevil - without ever revealing his identity - goes to Vietnam on a USO tour? Where a blind soldier is just hanging out? It's too out there. The most realistic plot is Karen being a movie star.

The problem ultimately comes down to the setting. Because Daredevil doesn't have FF-level powers, and it's always happening at the street level, the premises can't get too crazy.

In Fantastic Four or Avengers, they can just have a space battle. But DD is in the city and can't do that. Spider-Man is just a kid, and a reader can easily accept Peter's teenage drama and it feels realistic and a good perspective. Matt is a lawyer and an adult, but he doesn't act like that. He's more immature than Peter on Peter's worst day. The challenge that Thomas hasn't figured out is if they keep it "street-level" then they have to focus on relationships like Spidey does, but they can't write them fully adult either, so it can't work.

Miller/Bendis/Brubaker (and others) understood the character. Stan Lee knew the character had to be wacky, so it works in a silly way. Roy Thomas does not understand the character.

I've read Vol. 3 not that long ago, and Gerry Conway is even worse. He's great at Spider-Man, but when he writes Matt/Karen/Natasha in Vol. 3 he tries to bring an adult perspective that he doesn't have.

Nevertheless, I'm going to keep going! I kind of wish I delayed this read-thru until I got Vol. 4, cuz I'm going to read 3 again, and then I have to skip ahead to Miller.

Haha - it's a comment from a few days ago that's quoted a couple times at the end about the show needing a stronger central character to feel like a spoke of a wheel.

I don't think it's some brilliant observation, but I guess I summed it up in a way that fit the writer's idea for the piece. I was reading the article and I was like "huh that sounds like something I wrote a couple days ago....wait, it is what I wrote a couple days ago." Haha

The thesis of the article can be misinterpreted that fans want Jax back, which isn't what I think or what I think the article is arguing. I just think the character lacks a personality that everyone else can react off of, and that makes it flail around, at least in my opinion.

Anyway, it amuses me that I know the cast probably reads every word about themselves and I'm glad I summed up the men as "non-factors," cuz they don't deserve any credit. Except for Zach, who I think is doing his part.

So I got this probably five years ago, and read it at the time as one of the earlier SA runs that I had picked up. I probably mostly skimmed it and didn't have much context and hadn't read a lot of other titles at the time. With Daredevil on Disney+ I decided to do a full read-thru.

I do like Vol. 1, don't get me wrong, but as the title says, this is the Silver Ageiest Silver Age title that ever Silver Aged.

I have to think that Stan Lee KNEW that this was all ridiculous. That the entire premise was a step too far, and that eventually it would just get cancelled and it didn't really matter what he did. And then it actually didn't get cancelled and he had to keep doubling-down.

Unlike Iron Man/Thor, which I don't like those initial runs, with Daredevil, Lee really leans into the inanity. Especially in the first 10 issues, DD narrates *everything* to justify how he can "see" everything. Even the letters call Lee out on it.

The villains are of course absurd - Stilt-Man, Leap-Frog, the Masked Marauder turns out to be the landlord? The Owl's criminal lair is built like an owl and is across the river from NYC? But then it's on an island? Cat-Man? Bird-Man? A villain is named "The Organizer?"

We all know that Lee can't write women except to exist in love triangles, and that's beyond the pale here. Karen Page does not exist except to think "if only blind Matt would take me in his arms," while Matt is thinking "if only she loved me as I do love her." She has no agency other than loving Matt.

And then of course Foggy is the third wheel, and then poses as Fat Daredevil to impress Karen.

Of course this is also the Mike Murdock swap - with the psychedelic shades and personality switch. Nonsense.

Gene Colan's art is a big factor in making it readable. The early issues with Wally Wood are a little too childish, especially with the constant exposition.

But what makes it work, even if it's hit or miss, is that it commits to the bit. None of it is ironic or wink to the audience. Lee plays it literally, so even while I'm laughing, Lee is not laughing with me. I'm sure on the inside he was, but there's no joke on the page.

So like I said, Iron Man/Thor/X-Men have a lot of the same story beats but lack the humor of the situation. It's not that it's better/worse, but early Daredevil accepts the silliness of the situation while also taking it seriously. It's a thin line, but Lee does pull it off.

I think a reader has to be a general fan of the Silver or Bronze Age. This would not be the right title for a modern reader to experiment with.