u/Grand_Slam_1181

Hello,

A while ago on an account I lost access to, I was able to discuss my Catholicism on here. I want to list all of the questions I was asked and challanges made to me, and respond to them. I'm paraphrasing but not strawmanning the questions and challenges brought to me.

Why do you believe? Can you present any evidence for your belief?

The short answer is no. I believe solely because of faith, and because it was the faith of the Catholics before me. I watch shows like the Line, and I'm aware there is no evidence for my religious beliefs.

The Catholic Church has committed numerous crimes against humanity, including genocide, forced coversion, ongogoing clerical child rape abuse, and more. Why are you still a member?

I believe the Church can be reformed, and brought back to the days when St. Peter was handed the keys to the kingdom of heaven by Jesus Christ. I have pledged to not make another financial donation until the Church loses its tax benefits, is 100% transparent, and free of systematic clerical sex abuse.

I also support independent Catholic groups such as Voices of the Faithful, which is an independently run group against clerical rape abuse, and not run by the Catholic Church. Also, it should go without saying I condem the Inquisitions, genocide, and any other crimes against humanity done by the Catholic Church.

Are you anti-abortion, anti-birth control, and anti-LGBTQ?

No. I support Roe v Wade, birth control, condoms, and the human rights of LGBTQ people.

You say you support LGBTQ rights, but do you think being gay is a sin?

No. I'd like to live in a world where the Catholic Church recognizes gay marriage.

Should women be allowed to become priests?

Technically yes, but I'd rather it be done by elevating nuns to have the same capabilities as priests. The distinction can still be made between the two.

Do you support the hierarchy of the Catholic Church? Do you revere the Pope?

I revere the office of the Pope, but that doesn't mean I necessarily revere any Pope himself. I also believe the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has to be preserved in some sense, though it needs to be in a world where that carries no political power.

Do you believe everything in the Bible?

No, there is much in the Bible I don't believe is the Word of God.

On what grounds do you justify your beliefs that are deemed heretical by some Catholics?

I follow the Catholic teaching of the primacy of conscience, which can be seen in part in Catholic Church Catechism 1778. This means to me that we as Catholics are perfectly allowed to disagree and question church teachings. We can use our conscience as our moral guide, which is what I do.

I go to a parish that is very traditional. The priests and vast majority of the laity are Traditional Catholics. I've heard this said multiple times:

"You can't be Catholic and support abortion."

"You can't be Catholic and support gay marriage."

"You can't be Catholic and support ___"

My response is simple. If we lived in the 1500s, the TradCaths of today would be seen as heretics by the Catholics of back then. It used to be a capital offense to hear the mass in your native language, or to read the Bible.

This is why I love that this sub has a pinned post that says we believe in the Catholic concept of the conscience being our primary guide. God gives us a conscience. It's not perfect, we need outside guidance. But we are able to learn and grow as free individuals.

Let's be honest, if a person wrote Vatican 2 in 1555, they'd be burned alive. Non schismatic traditionalists will bend over backward trying to reconcile the Second Vatican Council with their beliefs, and schismatic traditionalists want to turn the clocks back to the Dark Ages. At least in terms of religious oppression.

I don't want to believe anything that violates my conscience, and praise be to the Lord that I don't have to. None of us do.

Hello,

There is another subject of discussion that I think is of value. The TradCaths, or Traditional Catholics, are a blight on the conscience.

I used to be sort of one, but not really all of the way. I was a Conservative Catholic but not necessarily a TradCath. And I don't think most TradCaths are bad people, in fact I know many currently who are wonderful. But I'd be remiss to not bring up the issues I've seen with the TradCaths.

The first issue is that we follow the Catholic principle of conscience first and foremost, so we are fine saying the Church is wrong about things. They are not, and they put dogmatic literalism first. But I don't even want to focus on the issues we have with dogmatic literalism, I want to focus on the abhorrent things I've seen from TradCaths that Conservative Catholics should also be worried about.

Perhaps controversially, I do think there are people who mean well that hold awful beliefs, including sexist and homophobic beliefs. There are many TradCaths that fall in this category, but that being said, I think the biggest issue I've seen with TradCaths is that many of them don't mean well. As a former Conservative Catholic myself, I unfortunately was one of the ones who was cruel and didn't mean well. So this post isn't me being 'holier than thou.'

Perhaps controversially, I do think there are people who mean well that hold awful beliefs, including sexist and homophobic beliefs. There are many TradCaths that fall in this category, but that being said, I think the biggest issue I've seen with TradCaths is that many of them don't actually mean well.

There is an old saying that cruel men have cruel gods, meaning that a cruel person's god is really only a justification for the cruelty they wanted to inflict anyway. I can't help but feel this is true with many TradCaths, at least the ones I've seen online. The ones I know in person who hold terrible beliefs, well I at least hope they mean well.

There is a real TradCath to Groyper pipeline. And like I said, I think the biggest issue is that many of them are cruel.

I am not sure what we can do to help combat this. For me, I try to express myself clearly to the TradCaths I know, and as respectfully as possible.

But what helped me stop being a cruel person was therapy, and I'm still not even close to being where I need to be. I had to pay out of pocket for some services, and oh boy was that pricey. So as cliche as it sounds, I think universal healthcare might help with the TradCath problem.

Hello,

A while ago on an account I lost access to, I was able to discuss my Catholicism on here. I want to list all of the questions I was asked and challanges made to me, and respond to them. I'm paraphrasing but not strawmanning the questions and challenges brought to me.

Why do you believe? Can you present any evidence for your belief?

The short answer is no. I believe solely because of faith, and because it was the faith of the Catholics before me. I watch shows like the Line, and I'm aware there is no evidence for my religious beliefs.

The Catholic Church has committed numerous crimes against humanity, including genocide, forced coversion, ongogoing clerical child rape abuse, and more. Why are you still a member?

I believe the Church can be reformed, and brought back to the days when St. Peter was handed the keys to the kingdom of heaven by Jesus Christ. I have pledged to not make another financial donation until the Church loses its tax benefits, is 100% transparent, and free of systematic clerical sex abuse.

I also support independent Catholic groups such as Voices of the Faithful, which is an independently run group against clerical rape abuse, and not run by the Catholic Church. Also, it should go without saying I condem the Inquisitions, genocide, and any other crimes against humanity done by the Catholic Church.

Are you anti-abortion, anti-birth control, and anti-LGBTQ?

No. I support Roe v Wade, birth control, condoms, and the human rights of LGBTQ people.

You say you support LGBTQ rights, but do you think being gay is a sin?

No. I'd like to live in a world where the Catholic Church recognizes gay marriage.

Should women be allowed to become priests?

Technically yes, but I'd rather it be done by elevating nuns to have the same capabilities as priests. The distinction can still be made between the two.

Do you support the hierarchy of the Catholic Church? Do you revere the Pope?

I revere the office of the Pope, but that doesn't mean I necessarily revere any Pope himself. I also believe the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has to be preserved in some sense, though it needs to be in a world where that carries no political power.

Do you believe everything in the Bible?

No, there is much in the Bible I don't believe is the Word of God.

On what grounds do you justify your beliefs that are deemed heretical by some Catholics?

I follow the Catholic teaching of the primacy of conscience, which can be seen in part in Catholic Church Catechism 1778. This means to me that we as Catholics are perfectly allowed to disagree and question church teachings. We can use our conscience as our moral guide, which is what I do.