r/DebateAnAtheist

I’ve always wondered how atheists go through life without help through any gods, prayer or any other supernatural means. I am a religious as I went to a Christian school but didn’t grow up overly religious, but just believed in God. But I also believe in subliminals, reality shifting, and the supernatural. I’ve also did magic before but I’m not sure if those results was a coincidence.

For the past few years, I have been kinda questioning my religion for a while due to my father dying,contradictions, and science it but I really want to stick to it bc I need help through my life because my life hasn’t been great since my dad passed away and want my prayers to be answered. Also, I want to go to Heaven to see my dad. I feel like I would be severely depressed without it. Also, I’ve been listening to subliminals as well to help me get through this life and get the results and goals I need.

Note: Could be wrong flair, as this is debating an argument against the existence of God from my theist perspective

John Schellenberg's argument from divine hiddenness goes like this. He defines nonresistant as someone who does not prefer that God not exist and is open to God, like his sincere seeker who wants relationship. If a perfectly loving personal God exists then such a God would be open to relationship with any person who is nonresistant in that sense, so there would be no nonresistant nonbelievers, because God would make himself known in a way the seeker could recognise. But, he claims, there are sincere seekers who meet that definition and yet stay in nonbelief through no resistance of their own. So on the argument from divine hiddenness, no perfectly loving personal God exists.

The argument from divine hiddenness fails at its central concept.

Omnibenevolence by definition is complete love, peace, non-violence, never willing any sentient dead as means, only allowing death as foreseen side effect. There is by definition no omnibenevolent God who is not complete love, peace, non-violence, because benevolence is willing good which is being and flourishing of other as end in itself, and to will death as instrument contradicts willing being as end. That is true whether or not God exists. So if such a God exists, he is completely pure and peaceful personal God who is complete love.

Now, what it is to not prefer that God not exist. On his own definition, not preferring is not a feeling, it is what your affirmed way of living says should exist. If you affirm that willing sentient dead as means is permissible, you have affirmed something that by strict entailment says completely pure and peaceful personal God who is complete love does not exist as the way the world should be. To affirm that permission just is to see other as force object, as instrument, not as being as end. To hold that is to prefer that that God not exist as the ultimate way, even while you feel sincere. Sincerity of feeling cannot cancel entailment of content. You are resistant by logic, not by mood.

Therefore to be nonresistant in his sense just is to live in a way that is absolute pacifist, anti abortion, lacto vegetarian or vegan, anti death penalty, anti human euthanasia, restraining alive with net not killing, only allowing death as foreseen side effect with live removal where possible. That is not an added ethic. It is what openness to complete love means. You cannot be open to complete love while holding that complete love should not be the way.

He is not hidden at all. He stays present as the very being of all, as that which lets anything be at all. But most people live lifestyles and hold opinions that are violent in that exact sense, so he cannot be felt or experienced by them. That is an epistemic block, not hiddenness. Violence just blinds you, you cannot see God, he is not hidden but you cannot perceive. The violent mind cannot understand or perceive complete love because its categories are made of force and instrument, and a mind made of force has no receptor for a being whose nature is never to see any being as force.

And this also explains why he must allow the block. If he is complete love, peace, non-violence, he cannot coerce cognisance through violence against the will. To force perception through the violent lens would be to violate the lens by force, which would itself be willing a kind of violence as means. So he must remain as being itself, quietly present, immediately cognisable once the violent categories are dropped, but not forcing.

That is why there are zero nonresistant nonbelievers. Every candidate Schellenberg points to affirms, in principle, that willing sentient dead as means is permissible, or affirms that impersonal ultimate is ultimate unconditioned ground, that which depends on nothing while all else depends on it. By definition of ultimate there cannot be two unconditioned grounds, so affirming impersonal as ultimate entails that personal pure and peaceful God who is complete love does not exist as ultimate. That again is to prefer that personal God not exist as ultimate. So even outwardly nonviolent Jains and Buddhists count as resistant on his own definition by entailment.

So the argument from divine hiddenness describes as hiddenness what is in fact unperceiving. It posits nonresistant nonbelief, but on its own terms once entailment is made explicit, there is no such state. The failure to perceive is not evidence of absence, it is evidence of the epistemic block made by violent living and violent opinions, and that block itself is resistance. Premise five is false by entailment, and the phenomenon is not hiddenness at all.

Apologies if you disagree with the rebutta, but those are my current views. Let's debate.

Whether you're an agnostic atheist here to ask a gnostic one some questions, a theist who's curious about the viewpoints of atheists, someone doubting, or just someone looking for sources, feel free to ask anything here. This is also an ideal place to tag moderators for thoughts regarding the sub or any questions in general.

While this isn't strictly for debate, rules on civility, trolling, etc. still apply.