Saya Early Theorycrafting Discussion
Hello, TC season has returned - and it's Saya this time.
Usual disclaimer: These threads are early, untested and are personal observations/opinions meant to generate discussion and point players to avenues of exploration. Do not take these as gospel.
Edit: Updated with new release information (new Posse, WoDs, etc). Conclusion doesn't really change too much. She is still a ball of contradictions.
Propagation:
Much like our last two releases, Saya introduces Caro 2 - or Propagation: Caro. To understand what she brings to the table, we'll first need to understand the key differences. Much like the other two elevated realms, Propagation puts a twist on the key mechanics. To break it down.
The Embryo cap has been doubled from 100 to 200, but the base Embryo Fusion has been increased from 30-60 to 50-100. - which is a net loss per Embryo. What this really changes is the impact of Fusion generation for other sources (e.g. Aigis cards, Pickman Rouse, Relics) - those cards are halved in terms of relative power.
Devour bonuses are gone. You no longer gain Shield/Temp STR. This is actually quite a major loss, but is supplemented by...
Passive bonuses. Propagation provides 10% Max HP and 50% DMG Amp (only DMG Amp doubled for Pure Caro), and 20 stacks of Propagation Frenzy at the start of each turn (new mechanic, each stack gives 1% Exalt Final Power for that turn). This Frenzy stack seems to expire at the end of the turn, but as it is, all units have +20% Final Exalt to start.
Actively using an Embryo no longer provides CR, but instead provides 40 Propagation Frenzy stacks. This stacks with the per-turn, so at base your Awakener can have +60% Final Exalt power when fed an Embryo, making it very powerful on units where their Exalt is their main numerical contribution.
Crimson Furnace is reworked. Now has a 3-Turn Cooldown and accumulates based on 10% of missing HP. The cap limit is increased to 50% Max HP. Staying at low HP will charge it up quicker, and the breakpoint to hit the original Caro amount is to sit at 40% Max HP. On the flipside, you don't start charging unless you're low, so taking an early hit can result in higher EHP in the long term.
Crimson Furnace now has an offensive function. You can release it to cause Corruption (see Castor) to all enemies equal to 1% of their Max HP, and this scales with the amount of Crimson Furnace consumed. This is pretty much pointless for regular mobs, but for bosses, it's essentially another source of Fixed DMG. At base, this is 3%-6% of the enemy's Max HP IF you can trigger the removal. This also has +500% racism vs Empty Shell units, for some reason.
Realm Mastery increases the number of Frenzy stacks gained. The threshold for this is every 100 RM = +1 base stack, and +2 stacks from Devour (for a total of +3% Final Exalt Power). This is doubled in pure Caro, so the thresholds are 50 RM for +1/+2. It's not bad, but is incredibly Awakener dependent so going out of your way to invest in it is probably niche/on the weaker end. 100 RM mixed takes your Final Exalt Power from 1.6x > 1.63x, or a 1.875% increase.
This realm clearly specialises in buffing Exalts. It also wants you to be able to bounce your HP back and forth. We'll talk about synergies later.
Saya Kit Breakdown
First thing to note is that Saya has 200 Base Aliemus - similar to Vortice. The other thing to note is that her base stats are terrible. She has a very similar statline to GDoll or Faint, making her one of the lowest stat totals we've seen from a Limited Awakener in a long time.
Rouse (3-Cost): Provides an instant burst of Aliemus (up to 100 Aliemus). Changes the Crimson Furnace to add Perception Warp to all other Awakeners cards in hand, draw and discard piles. The first 3 times any of these cards are played, Saya and that Awakener gains +20 Aliemus.
Perception Warp: RANDOMLY ALTERS THE COST OF YOUR CARDS (from -2 to +2). Removed from the card when played or discarded. Note that it stays on Retain, which can potentially be dangerous.
Strike/Defence: Basic, buffed at E2 to generate more Fusion. Easy delete at E0, but with E2 it's decent.
Genetic Copy (2-Cost): Generate 40 Embryo Fusion, and scales to 80 Embryo Fusion based on missing HP. Gain 1 stack of 'Gynoecium' - a resource used for her Exalt.
Viscera Blossoms (0-Cost): Her bread and butter. Has Retain. Inflicts major Corrosion on enemies, then discards and redraws all Command cards. This means Symptoms/Embryos and Buffs remain in your hand.
Exalt: Base effect - Gains Shield (a respectable amount), then chooses an Awakener, copying their entire kit into the Draw and Discard piles (+8 cards total). Consumes all stacks of Gynoecium - for every stack consumed, one random copied card becomes 0 cost. These cards have Fleeting and Destroy.
Devour: 2 random Basic Strike/Def copied into the deck has their Arith cost set to 0 and takes effect +1 time.
Soulforge: Saya's Exalt provides up to 40 Frenzy stacks to the target (for a total of 100 after Base + Embryo). The next Posse is released twice. Also adds +100% racism vs Caro with her Corrosion.
Kit notes:
She is an extremely high variance unit. She can do anything from brick your hand, or make everything free.
She wants to support one specific unit that really loves all their cards AND a very powerful Exalt - and hopefully the rest of your team aren't too reliant on Cards to fulfil their role.
Her Rouse is nigh mandatory if you want to use her Exalt. Without it, she'll need a ridiculous number of Strikes/Defences to user her Base Exalt, and outside help won't do much due to her high Base Aliemus.
Her Soulforge has double Posse after Exalt, which we all know is very broken in some cases. The drawback is charging Saya's Exalt might not be as easy as it seems due to Rouse dependence and Perception Warp.
Viscera Blossoms is an insanely powerful card. At level 60/SF 10, it inflicts 15000 Corrosion at base to all enemies and redraws your hand. It can be held to see what free cards you can play via Perception Warp, then used to unbrick your hand.
Gynoecium has no cap - but it can also be viewed as paying 2 cost to have 1 random card cost 0 later + 40-80 Fusion. Not a particularly strong card, but I could be wrong.
Arith unbricks bad hands, so she can have decent synergy with generators.
Investments
E0 - Free unit for this time.
E1 - Adds some Base and Sigil Yield Scaling to her Exalt Shield and 0-Cost Corrosion. You can typically assume 40% Sigil Yield on a limited unit at reasonable investment, so we're looking at a total of +15% Base Exalt Shield and +30% increase in 0-Cost Base Corrosion - which should be a separate modifier from Corrosion inflicted.
E2 - Adds Fusion Generation on Strike/Def.
E3 - 0-Cost inflicts Corrosion equal to 0.5% Max HP, and Gynoecium adds +1 draw after Exalt.
OE - All Copied 'Skill cards' take effect an additional time.
AA - Crimson Furnace usage also provides Saya 50 Aliemus and 1 Gynoecium
Evaluation: Saya's Enlightens are difficult to evaluate. E1 adds incentive to grab Sigil Yield (which is already a high variance stat). E2 is purely QoL - with the Embryo cap change, you will definitely appreciate any scraps of Fusion you can get. E3 is %HP Fixed DMG (again) on her 0-cost - which you can see is starting to get more and more important, while the second effect feels a bit of a nothing burger. Something to note is that her Soulforge does not specify Base, so this gets multiplied to 1% of enemy Max HP at SF10.
Her OE effect is incredibly strong. The problem is that it is, quite frankly, 400 Aliemus cost - and unlike Vortice, who can cheese it via playing around her 3-Cost, Saya is entirely dependent on her Rouse (60 Aliemus every 3 turns if you Furnace on CD), or outside help (Posse, other Awakeners, Embryos). That said, if you can open a boss fight with this OE, you're pretty much set due to the sheer number of Arith cost you can cheat. Note - Retain cards WILL disappear, so you still actively need to play these on draw. You are looking at 6-7 turn for this.
None of these Enlightens make me go "must have", honestly - so in order or investment value I would say:
E0 (free) > E3 (increase and play around that 0-cost value as much as possible) > E2 (comfort, especially if not much Embryo generation on the team) > E1 (it's fine, but you can always grab other support wheels/cov stats like DR) > OE (I might be wrong, but it's so damn expensive and requires a specialised build/comp to shine) > AA (not bad, but there are better units to AA).
WoDs
Fragant Morphogenesis (her Sig): One of the most broken WoDs in the game from +1 Arith alone. Must pull, even if you're not using Saya. Arith is the single most powerful resource in the game as it directly translates to other resources. The Corrosion secondary effect is nice for Saya, and Fusion gain usable on Caro supports (e.g. Agrippa, Aigis). Specifically for Saya, the Corrosion effect goes up to +100% at W3 - with Level 60, SF10 and E3, her 0-cost should inflict ~58000 + 1.5% Max HP Corrosion. If you can proc it all, that's 174000 + 4.5% Max HP off a 0-cost to all enemies.
To the Star: Free +12 designed for Saya/PCaro. This should always be on her after E1 as it's a good chunk of base stats (50% Sigil Yield can now be expected for all players, with some setups hitting 60%+), and helps alleviate some of the PCaro sustain patterns. Note that you need to clear rapidly to make the most out of this; at turn 4 kill it'll only be healing you for 5% of your Max HP instead of 15%. Refreshes being free if you use Perception is actually very strong.
School Day: If you have this, it can be used to directly cheese her Aliemus before a boss fight. Especially good if you have her OE and in combination with To the Star, allowing you to gain +150 Aliemus with Perception (you can also put it on a teammate to charge them instead).
Muddied Fairy Tale: Sigil Yield and provides her with 20 Aliemus per 3 turns. Not very good, but usable.
Man in the Mirror: Accumulate Furnace Faster. With the change, this is essentially +30% Furnace gain, which is honestly quite powerful.
Heart of A Knight: Bigger Exalt Shield, which can be very nice. Also adds some Temp STR for use in those teams. If at +12, it becomes an incredibly powerful stat-stick that enables her to hit funny amounts of Sigil Yield.
Tablet of Scriptures: Salv's WoD can be very good on her as a support option due to passive resource gain and +Shield. The Caro Furnace gain won't matter much, I think.
Utility WoDs (Keyflare/DMG/RM/DR): Without her E1 (or even after), these will be your go-to for supporting the team. Without E1, she really doesn't care, so just pick what your team needs. Special note to We Will Meet Again, as it can fish her 0-cost.
Aliemus WoDs: Abberant Devour/Hymn of Sovereign/Manikin of Oblivion/Faraway Eden. The usual Aliemus wheel culprits rear their head whenever this happens. If they're not already in use, they can be niche but effective options.
Posse
Support: Whatever your team needs. She's a support first and foremost. Her Posse very likely gives her +1 Gynoecium and an additional effect to do with Fusion gain - but Gynoeciums aren't all that powerful on paper (though it may differ in practice).
Derision of Destiny: Remember how her 0-cost is absolutely bonkers? Yeah, Castor's Posse can guarantee that draw in certain teams.
For the New World: Her Posse. Shields, Draw 2 Skills, +1 Gynoecium. It's one of the few ways to get Gynoecium, so if you're playing around that 0-cost skill reduction and don't need anything else, this is good.
Reunion Wish: You can redraw her 0-Cost. Also, if for some reason you're also running Ramona/GRamona - it is a doubleplay.
Miracle's Dawn: Salvador's Posse adds back some additional HP recovery option, if necessary.
Covenants
Her covenants are an odd duck.
Photosynthesis Ritual: If playing with Ultra units, this is a very high value option - though if running with a Leap/Quasar unit, throw it on them instead.
Dreams of Medicine: Can be good, but if you draw both 0-costs its value is somewhat wasted. Her 2-cost also seems low value to me. It's also highly contested, so better to fish for her 0-cost elsewhere.
Deus Ex Machina/Life Drain/Cursed Rabbit/Burial: Yeah, I'm stumped. I don't see any other synergies, so generalist Covs for her seem to be the solution unless they release a new one alongside her.
Role and Synergies
Saya brings a passive buff to Exalts via Propagation, so she naturally pairs well with units that can make use of that buff.
Exalt Carry: This one is pretty straightforward. The entirety of Propagation screams Exalt DPS. Our list of common Exalt Carries are Doresain, Sorel, Vortice, 24, Sanga, and Uvhash (he's getting an Exalt buff).
Exalt Supports: Also pretty straightforward. The Realm also buffs the buffs generated through Exalts - so a full prepped Leigh can heal 1000+ HP and generate 240 STR with her OE. This extends to TDMG (e.g. Tulu), Counter (e.g. Caecus), STR (e.g. watch 2.5.1 Ogier generate 1600 TSTR in one turn), Poison (Nymph, GDoll, Xu) and Shields (lots).
She also really, really wants people to be able to actually proc her Corrosion when she plays her 0-cost - so that's a primary solve as well.
Example Teams
Dore/Pickman/Leigh: I don't think this is a surprise to anybody. Nothing much to add here. The king is going to be very happy with this new addition. Sorel less so, since she gets access to fewer Embryos - but it most certainly works.
Vortice/Pickman: Vortice is another major beneficiary - with her Posse able to easily capitalise on Corrosion, all her cards being nice to play (2x Strike = free Reload). Corrosion + Pickman will delete mobs. Round out the team with Corposant or Murphy.
Classic Discard: She takes Casiah's spot. Not only does she help cycle cards for free, she can generate more Lightning Revolutions, throw away more Pilots/Tulus, and help feed Aurita. They also allow her to Furnace on cooldown, since discarding cards basically solves the Perception Warp problem. If you have an AA Aurita, her Strike being 0-cost and doubleplayed on a Wave turn is very nice. The fact that her Exalt is a Shield actually matters on this team, since they're quite fragile.
Sanga/Salvador: Saya is big for Sanga. Having an Exalt Shield, doubling her OE Shield, then doubling her DMG means giving her potentially up to x4 DMG (typically less). Then there's Salvador, who already gets a natural buff from Saya increasing the Furnace Limit significantly and helps to build shield and generate Furnace healing. Round out the comp with a Keyflare unit (Thais is preferred).
GDoll/Lotan: With her AA, Lotan actually likes her Defense card. This allows her to doubleplay Strikes, Blade of Defiance can self discount, her Strikes are already decent. Redrawing also allows you to find more Blade of Defiances. GDoll is there for the Fixed DMG/Healing/Aliemus as usual. This can be rounded out with the typical Faint or Aigis, and will work perfectly fine for Wave 3 content.
24/Ryker/Hameln: 24 is going to get a glowup of sorts soon - so this is a pretty interesting team. Might be a bit fragile, but there are some good synergies here. Ryker always appreciates more Sigil Yield, Rondo can be free or cheaper (meaning it's a free +2 draw + Keyflare anyway), 24 can really take advantage of the Exalt buffs and helps sustain. Ryker can draw Saya's 0-Cost. A more defensive variant would replace Ryker with Ogier.
Mouchette/Ogier/Helot: The die hard team. Mouchette's Exalt, while not where most of her damage comes from, is honestly still very strong. 2.5.1 Ogier's AA with Saya generates obscene amounts of Temp STR. Helot is Heloting. The 0-cost redraw being retained is actually decent QoL for Mouchette if your hand is bricked - and Mouchette loves doubleplaying her Strikes, more copies of her own cards, etc. If you have OE Mouchette, you typically don't need Aigis anyway. Main downside is that Ogier's 2-Cost is your main source of Vuln, and Keyflare can be rough (just proc DR).
Agrippa/Lily/Xu: Between Xu and Agrippa + Lily's incoming Poison buffs, this becomes a very viable Poison composition. Lily already wants to stay below 50% HP (so you can build PCaro Furnace), Agrippa, Lily and Xu are very defensive, Xu's +3 Arith paired with Saya's 0-cost lets you play many cards. With sufficient Poison buildup, Corrosion can be triggered every turn. If there is a downside to this comp, it's that Lily's 4-Cost doesn't get to Prepare - and that Keyflare is a bitch, like every other Poison team. Karen is a good alternative to Lily.
After going through Ultra, there is legitimately no one I would pair her with there as core except potentially Clem DPS (OE and AA) and maybe Pollux (for quick Corrosion procs). Any Ultra unit would have to be part of another unit's lineup + Caro as is (e.g. Sorel/Dore + Clem, GHelot + Horla).
Conclusion
Saya is odd. She brings a lot of passive support power that feels almost invisible. Her Corrosion is legitimately incredible at E3W3 - and can stack if you go out of your way to do so for a ton of 'free' damage. However, my take is that she's going to feel very clunky to use. On the other hand, her WoD is outright crazy. She is very obviously a great teammate for Doresain (and Discard/Lotan), so rejoice. For everyone else, she feels like a sidegrade in a lot of comps.
I'm going to keep her at E0W0 early on and experiment further. I suspect I'll get her to E3W3 if I like the way she plays and can find a good place to slot her (very likely Vortice (freeing Thais) or Discard (if she levels them up enough), since I don't have Doresain).
As usual, wait for her to actually be out before you decide on investments - and see you all in a couple of months!