Alr so to start off we're both born muslims and are young(barely adult). So, me as a person is not close to deen as much as i want to. I struggle to be as close even though i believe in islam, to have that foundation,to know why i do believe etc but that is something im working through along with some mental health stuff. My brother is in a similar situation too. So he's idk what you call it, a free thinker? Or um thinks about stuff a lot and i do too, maybe not as much as him and no im not saying he's wrong or anything. So we were having a conversation about past trauma and stuff and reached a convo about Allah swt. During the discussion, we both engaged in it by providing both sides but it reached a point where the discussion stopped and it kept circling the same arguments again and again until it felt no longer a discussion and bored me so i called dips. Tho he did want to continue. Im too lazy to explain the entire convo which might have lasted for 2 hours or something but I'll come the the points that he raised and maybe some of mine too.
One is that when a person does something bad, their past, their upbringing everything plays a part into it so it could be understandable but not justifiable(this came up in apast discussion and this one too and i agree with this but using netanyahu as an example surely didn't want me to understand and rather 😊, im better off not elaborating)
Another i don't remember where the convo started but basically how when people cause others suffering in this dunya, and Allah swt knows about everything before it happening and planned everything, isn't he himself doing it?(i don't think i worded this properly but u get the idea right....or wrong, just ask me if not) which is something I've thought about a lot when i was young too(emphasize on young so don't bully young me's thoughts being simple stuff and not a philosophical prodigy) like if Allah swt had planned everything, he's gonna know my every move so if I'm walking straight and suddenly take a sharp turn. I'm not fooling anyone, he had written that too BUT at the end of the day I took the turn, nobody made me so I as a person have enough free will to make that turn. So he lost me there.
(Im too lazy to type my view for eveything too, I'll mention some points and mine if necessary)
And another is that if people are evil from the get go, why DID Allah swt create them or why did he set in stone for them to be like that
Another, did Allah swt create this world on a whim just as a source of entertainment, otherwise when his creations are causing others sufferings or is suffering why is he not intervening. If he's such a merciful god, why is Allah swt letting them suffer, if he set all that suffering in stone too and is enablinhg is he the most merciful? Things like that. To this, my point was at the end of the day this dunya is a test and the end goal is always the akhira, so why exactly should Allah swt intervene in a test and lengthen the test rather than letting them to the end goal which is much sweeter than anything else. And why is he blamed for the actions of these people? And some other stuff so many examples ad points i made blah blah im lazy and the convo kept circling back to the same thing
Another : why did Allah swt create a world of suffering and turn people this way instead of just taking them straight to heaven
Why is he called the most merciful then? Or isn't it something he himself called?
After raising opinions of my own (most of it i didn't mention here cus once again im lazy and its 2 am rn) and the conversion kept circling the same point and just wasn't reaching anywhere, he didn't want to consider my points and i didn't understand his points at all, they felt not so logical to me( maybe he felt the same about mine) and he wanted to continue with the conversion to reach an end but continuing on saying the same stuff while having nothing to add on to it or make it back into a discussion OR going and getting that sleep in and reading up on it, gathering knowledge and getting opinions. The latter sounded much better to me so i straight up said i ain't doing this no more and left.
Short summary i got is that while in the discussion, i was speculative about some stuff yes(like Allah swt is the most merciful so the thing that on the day of judgement, Allah swt will send all non muslims to hell didn't set right with me so with the fact that he is indeed most merciful, he would not do that and it'll be based in their actions. And it mightve been that to instill fear and guide hearts, Allah swt said those so that people will live thw right path but not exactly implement it as it is?) But my speculation is like working witn info i was already given but my brother's speculation is what do you say, speculating onto a hypothetical situation where this is all just a whim to him.
Now what i need is nothing that'll blame me or him of somethings or anything like that. Just personal opinions on this take or arguments for a much better future discussion. Its not a fight as you're wrong you're right shut up etc. Its just a this is my view on this topic, what is yours? Scenario. I get that im not providing much of my opinions at all but im just tired to rethink that entire convo and type it out so if at any point of this, you guys want to know what exactly i thought, just ask. And i want to mention once again these are just some thoughts we shared, we're just two kids learning about islam and questioning it and having doubts on some topics so don't reduce us into what I've written on the small speck of conversion that came up.