r/progressive_islam

Some scholars says oh you started wearing hijab now what about the past days you didnt wear them these are ongoing sin .

I know i said hijab but i mean dress code in general wether it hijab or modest or watever , you understand it as

Please don't mind my wording, I am just being blunt. I am mainly talking about Sunni Islam, since I am Sunni.

If Islam banned sexual relations between female owner and male slaves, then why couldn't Islam also ban sexual relations between male owners and female slaves?

Most explanations I get when asked "why didn't Islam abolish slavery" is that it was important socioeconomically, which I agree even though it is not ideal. But I still don't quite get why Islam couldn't just ban sexual relations with female slaves. Female slaves had to not only do labour work but also had to be "forced" to have sex with their master, while male slaves only had to do labour work.

This is obviously quite unfair. I'm not saying that I support any particular gender being forced to have sex, but clearly it's not very consistent if male slaves aren't obliged to have sexual relations with their female master, while female slaves were obliged to have sexual relations with their male master. Why does one gender get punished, purely because they happened to be a female and not a male slave?

Why is it a problem? Because female slaves could not give consent. Their consent did not matter (according to most scholars). Most people say "modern form of consent did not exist 1400 years ago". However, I would argue that the "modern" form of consent is something that should be universally accepted, regardless of time, because a woman, whether slave or not, should not be forced into having sex with a man she doesn't want to have sex with. This is really basic. It's a violation of individual autonomy for a person to be obliged to do so. So why would Allah, The All-Knowing, not ban sex between male owner and his female slaves, knowing that it's not possible for the poor woman to give proper consent? I am not suggesting that slavery should've been abolished completely because that was unrealistic socioeconomically in that era, but I am just wondering why sex between a male master and female master couldn't be banned, especially if it was banned the other way around which apparently wasn't a problem?

Some people argue that this is the reason why Islam "abolished" slavery. However, it is to be noted that Islam only regulated slavery. Yes, I agree that it made conditions for slaves better than they used to be. But even so, Islam did not ban slavery completely. The only reason why it's banned in this day and age is because in the 1900s, Islamic countries faced international pressures which basically forced most of them to sign a treaty to ban slavery. If those international pressures did not exist, then maybe slavery in Islamic countries would have continued even to this date. But Allah knows best.

I genuinely want to understand

Why do some people reject hadiths (because of sexual slavery) as if milk al-yamīn in Islam had any interpretation other than sex with slaves?? There was no other interpretation for it centuries ago

Non-slavery interpretations of milk al-yameen only started popping up in the 19th and 20th centuries when slavery was already dying out and even then those views were super minor

My point is that you can't really call it a misinterpretation or an abuse of power if no other reading existed back then. That would mean the message was never corrupted and that our God, our Prophet, the companions and everyone else fully approved of it. I'd actually be suspicious if some people back in the 8th century or something were arguing that these verses didn't allow sex with enslaved women but those opinions just don't exist

I've been feeling really depressed for five months over this. I'm not trying to attack anyone I'm just genuinely confused

Hello and assalamu alaikum everyone. I’ve been praying for about 17 days. My body was not used to praying so I have muscle pain right now. Still tired, but I’m praying. The problem is that Shaytan is tempting me so bad right now.

I used to go out, drink, smoke, do drugs, have fun, read smut, watch porn, etc. I don’t do them anymore but Shaytan is tempting me telling me my old life was fun. I’m listening to songs that remind me of my old life and just feeling so nostalgic.

Any encouraging words would be appreciated. Do any other reverts experience this?

The PLO (that signed the Oslo Accords and made a peace treaty with Israel) unfortunately spent much of its history antagonizing other Arab states and was responsible or actively involved in conflicts in Jordan/Lebanon and they later endorsed Iraq in the Gulf crisis. These three specific events led to lasting resentment against Palestinians from many Arabs from what I understand and have read. It is complicated, like they had a reason behind it but it was still wrong and obviously it only hurt their credibility.

I have some mixed feelings there.

On one hand, I understand the anger against the PLO, I don't blame people for being frustrated. I get how it shattered the trust with how the PLO would be so quick to turn on other Arab countries.

But on the other hand, I know most of Gaza's population is under 18, meaning they weren't alive in Black September or the Gulf crisis. Even if you go back in time to these events, not every Palestinian was aligned with the PLO, like there were Palestinians who fought on behalf of King Hussein in Jordan against the PLO. And many Palestinians who lived in Kuwait were neutral and left in the beginning.

I understand these events have led to wariness towards Palestinian refugees or exiles in general because it's difficult to determine who is going to leave peacefully vs who will be a liability like what happen previously but I think there are other ways Arab countries can help:

• They should have a plan to reconstruct Gaza.

• Set up schools and hospitals.

• Evacuate patients, and the patients return after their treatment.

• I also think there should be effort to better integrate Palestinians who are currently living in Arab countries since 1948/1967, this will reduce extremism. Again I'm not saying they need to accept more Palestinians but to integrate the one they already have so they'll be less likely to become militant like in the past.

What do you think?

Assalamu alaikum, I'm a revert in the US, white midwestern, and I have very strong opinions on progressive Islam. I love this religion, I feel I have found the answers to peace in my own life, and desperately want to share it with others. Specifically I am passionate about the idea that Islam can be something that is integrated into your life, it doesn't have to dominate, but can be balanced and compatible with a western life.

I have a corporate job where I make a great living, but of course it doesn't fulfill my soul. I would love to dedicate my life to this mission is some way, to help reverts. We have a large muslim population in my location and many reverts, and already a couple great revert organizations, but none really fit what I would be looking for which is more progressive and balanced. Most reverts go into this extreme conservative mode and I feel so bad that the women especially think they have to wear burka to be a muslim woman (as an example).

I'll admit when I think about creating something like that, the safety idea really scares me. There are so many conservative muslims especially in my area who could lash at at someone which such ideas and that scares me. And I also do have this thought of "what if I am wrong? could I be leading people the wrong way with something like this?" But I truly in my heart believe more people need this, and I feel like I could easily dedicate my life to this cause. I think about Catholic nuns and while I wouldn't want to go that far, I just feel like I want to do more for the cause than simply pursue my own deen.

Has anyone done something like this? Thought of creating an organization like this? Know anyone who has? Can suggest any contacts who I could look into as examples?

Would you worry about your safety? Thoughts on how to overcome that?

Often when non muslims will say that women are inferior and treated worse in islam, or that feminism is needed for muslim women, muslims will answer that men and women are different, thus islam doesnt promote equality but equity as to fit the nature of each gender, but it doesnt means that women are inferior.

On paper, it is a sound argument, because well obviously men and women have inherent biological difference that would make 100% equal simmilarity impossible, like men are stronger and taller, women have periods and give birth etc.

In reality tho, it is very different and this argument of equity, not equality bc men and women are different has been completly used against women, treating like cattle and sugarcoating it with "oh youre different than men and you are so precious and in need of protection 🥺" when in facts you barely get treated like a human being and your life is miserable meanwhile men are having a blast but you get gaslighted into accepting your "feminine nature". Like i have so many exemple in head where something is framed as a "protection" or "aknowledging women's nature", and it is barely sugarcoated submission and inferiority and blatant unfairness that cause harm to women and that men would absolutely hate if it happened to them (but it is ok bc they are men and different/superior).

AsA. I wear leggings pretty regularly.

I keep seeing comments calling us “immodest,” “westernized,” or “not proper hijabis.” Modesty is not a one-size-fits-all checklist of silhouettes. It’s about intention, context, and what feels right for each of us. Plenty of us cover our hair and still choose clothes that work for our lives, bodies, and environments.

Policing other Muslim women’s clothes helps no one. If looser clothes feel better for you, wear them. That doesn’t give anyone the right to shame sisters who dress differently. We’re not a monolith.

Just needed to say it.

I find the state of what we call the hijab to be just oppressing to the Muslim women , imagine if a man was forced to wear something for the rest of his live even if it was a normal clothing he would feel controlled by someone and want to break free from that,why is it the opposite when it's a women wearing hijab,

I know that head covering is there in many cultures with alot of them seeing it as a sign of modesty like in Slavic cultures for example and early christians also emphasized on it

But in all cultures headcovering is merely cultural and sign of modesty but generally a choice, there is no heavy shaming or punishments or forcing anywhere in the world for a women not wearing a headcover so why do the traditionalist argue that the existance of a cultural headcovering somewhere else in the world means religiously obligating it is fine?

I see alot of women outside wearing black abaya and tight hijab in this hot summer and if they even show a bit of the hair they are shamed immediately, it just a sign of oppression for me and wouldn't be if it was left as a purely cultural thing,also this is why many non Muslims especially westerns dislike Muslims for alot of things the traditionalism do

hi guys, question is in the title, and i need advice on this. posting this here because I feel like other islamic subreddits are a little judgy. for mostly religious reasons, i have remained a virgin my entire adult life. it’s also moreso a principle thing though because i just don’t connect with a lot of men, and i feel like sex is intimate that i should only share with a guy i love. the guy is also muslim, and albeit he has said he’s not extremely religious and recently he told me this was his body count. he does know more about islam than me though tbh. he also told me he has been celibate for 3-4 years. i dont consider myself insanely religious either, i just try to pray, fast, be a good person, etc and abstain from major signs like zina, alcohol, etc.

i know his body count is average for someone in their early 20s in the west, but i think given we’re the same age and i’m a virgin i feel a little weird idk? i don’t mean to judge someone cause really im not, we all make mistakes especially when we’re young. i also don’t feel disgusted by it, it was moreso i felt insecurities that our first time wouldn’t be as special then.

i think its just like idk when we talked about this too it was our first serious convo and at one point i was asking too many questions and he got kind of upset about one thing i asked, which is valid. i asked “do u think u have any pregnancy scares or suspicions.” ik in hindsight this is really weird and i didn’t know proper way to ask this because i haven’t really talked to that many guys. and i know he doesnt have kids but i was wondering moreso if he was doing things unprotected too idk because what if in a few years he has a secret kid he never knew about come out like i can accept your body count but not a kid idk? i know this is probably irrational thinking and maybe its my mental health issues but his response to this was he got really mad and said if i ask stuff like this again he doesn’t know if it’ll work. which is valid but i think the anger and fact that relationship was threatened to be ended it scared me a little? and then i asked if he thinks we should even be together because i do overthink easily but he said not a chance cause he really likes me so i’m just confused.

everything else about this guy is perfect though and he’s genuinely really sweet. like in every other way he is my dream guy and i love talking to him, spending time together, etc. he also hasn’t pressured me to do anything sexual and doesn’t expect that of me, and yknow agrees to wait till marriage as well. I think I worry about falling into the stereotype of being a good muslim girl and then marrying a guy who's done everything idk. please help and be nice thanks so much.

I feel extremely ashamed of my situation. I’ve made my shahada on my teens and, for years, I repeated the speech that it’s a choice. 15 years later, married and with kids (the dream of every revert, right?), when I decided I don’t have the mental health to wear it anymore, I’ve found out it isn’t.

I wear it under the threat of divorce. I’m still “allowed” to wear it as a turban to get less attention, but I still cry when I have to pick up my kids at school because I’m putting on clothes I hate.

Every passing day I hate the headscarf more. I hate sleeves. I live in a very hot place.

I’ve cried because, studying the religion, I don’t believe anymore it’s mandatory. I wish I could press a button and be a silly girl that loves wearing it again, but I can’t unsee what I learned.

I feel so ridiculous I’m having my life to become worse because of a tool that was used to differentiate slave women from free women in medieval Arabia. I’m not supposed to go through this.

I wish I could just accept the situation and move on, but the bonus is that I have dermatitis and get rashes on the places of my body that sweats the most. Mine isn’t as bad as some people.

I can’t stop thinking about it because it’s literally on my body. It’s making me hate the religion and my in law family.

How to cope?

I feel like it makes Islam seem like an arab based religion, especially since alot of muslims from non arab countries insist on speaking arabic in prayer or when reciting quran, also reverts are somewhat pressured into learning arabic terms and stuff.

I personally think language shouldn't be a big deal especially since you are praying to Allah and he understands all human language, i don't see a problem in people praying in their own language because islam was sent to all mankind, it's not like judaism for example which is only for the people of israel. Christians also believe their religion to be for all mankind and they don't focus on language that much.

Hi everyone 👋

I am posting here because I am looking for a safe, empathetic space to process trauma. I am a Christian woman (early 20s) but have researched deeply into Islam for my own knowledge. I intentionally chose the r/progressive_islam community because I know you would deeply understand the complex layers of Islamic theology and cultural dynamics unlike other broad subreddits and I am specifically seeking your progressive, compassionate perspective to help me heal. Please keep comments focused on perspective, reframing, and healing rather than intense theological debates. I’m reaching out to this community in complete respect. I am seeking understanding and perspective to help me heal from a severe trauma response. Thank you

To provide some important context before I share the rest of my story: our relationship was not hidden, nor was it a casual fling. He told his conservative family about me, including his mother, siblings, and cousins friends etc social media we alway kept private and we were genuinely moving towards the next steps of marriage. He never once tried to convert me or told me that converting would make things easier for us. We were both recognising the hatred we’d get as a couple I already understood that Muslim men have a certain reputation when it comes to relationships with non-Muslim women, so I genuinely appreciated that he brought me into his family's awareness and that we were planning some kind of real future together. During the start of relationship I initially did not know very much about Islam but have continued to deeply research and try to understand it.

Early last year, I was in a relationship with him (early 20s) who turned out to be deeply dismissive-avoidant, led a double life, and was emotionally abusive. He constantly weaponised his faith and used manipulation to make it seem like I was always the problem because I am a non-Muslim and a cop out to leave the relationship when it got too real for him.

I eventually went through his phone last year and found romantic messages between him and a female "family friend," (early 20s) as well as other women from his past (shortly before me) and whilst we were together. The way he spoke about women in general completely shocked and disgusted me. There was zero accountability within his social circle; everyone, including the family friend, simply enabled/ignored his behavior. In one message, he even told this family friend they should marry each other if they don't find anyone else
He claimed this was all "done and buried, it was a long time ago" I’m not a fool and yet throughout half of our relationship, he consistently went behind my back to discuss our private life with her. (I didn’t know of all this till later this year btw I didn’t know anything until going through his phone!) I initially didn't police his friendships because I trusted him to know better, until I found images from about a year ago without her hijab and in a low cut tank top she had sent him. (a non mahram) to my understanding of Islam is this not forbidden and violates a woman’s Awrah? I mention this not to mock, but to highlight the deep hypocrisy I had to witness whilst she for one had the most to say about our “haram” relationship which I get in a sense it was this man had already committed zina in his past many times and also with me as a Christian fornication is also a sin so I will take accountability for it and two him claiming wanting to focus more on his faith but had no problem with his own haram relationship with his family friend. Which again was crazy hypocritical to me.

Despite our different faiths, I genuinely loved this man. Unlike enablers in his life, I encouraged him to grow. I supported him in breaking bad habits and encouraged him to pray and connect with God. I never tried to convert him; my Christian faith teaches me to see people beyond labels. We openly spoke about faith without malice. Out of respect, I even did heavy personal research into Islam and shared honest, vulnerable thoughts to inspire his personal healing. Instead of keeping my private thoughts between us, he shared my deeply personal messages with his family friend and cousins to probably mock me and my faith to validate their own egos. He kept giving her a podium to disrespect me which deeply hurt me. It felt like I was put into some random competition that I didn’t even sign up for. I take very long to process things and with this being my first relationship/first love it was incredibly hard, I couldn’t just up and leave at first. I ended up confronting him as I do I don’t tell him to do anything I just sit back and watch his actions, in the end he ended up choosing us and cut her off which made her hate me even more.

I never did anything to harm this family friend and always tried to be kind. When I eventually confronted her respectfully about her complicity in his deceptions, she pretended to be sweet to my face. However, I later saw messages where she was actively tearing my character down behind my back, making colorist remarks about me and other women, and mocking my faith and Jesus. Tragically, during this relationship, we had a pregnancy scare. My ex told the family friend about it, and she had asked him if she should get family members to kill me and my baby.

Shortly after, I went through a miscarriage. As I grieved, her cruel words about ending my pregnancy echoed continuously in my mind, making it feel like her malicious wish had come true. The extreme emotional distress of the betrayal, the hostility, and the physical loss of my pregnancy eventually landed me in the hospital due to the heartbreak. Later, I found out his mother was deeply upset about the prospect of him marrying a Christian, it had nothing to do with my character or his happiness it was just the fact that I wasn't Muslim. I felt completely devalued and viewed purely as an unwanted outsider. Which set the tone.

I left him a few months ago because I had finally checked out and was done with it all completely tired of his cowardice and hypocrisy, I’m now healing in therapy and taking each day as a blessing. Everyone involved is blocked completely. I am entirely done with the chaos, but I frequently think about the fact that if my baby had survived, she would have been born into an environment of rejection by her own flesh and blood. I thank God for protecting her from that pain.** **As a Christian, I have chosen to forgive them in my heart. I say this not because their actions were acceptable, but because I refuse to carry their malice or let bitterness take root in my soul. Forgiving them is my way of cutting the final tie so I can heal completely.

Today, I accidentally stumbled across a new photo of the family friend on social media. My body immediately went into a severe, physical panic response. My stomach turned, my heart raced, and I broke down in tears. Because this individual used her religious and cultural background as a shield to mock me and joke about harming me and my unborn child, my brain’s threat center has generalized this fear. While she screamed that our relationship was "haram," whilst my presence was actively bettering my exes character and stay away from destructive habits he was genuinely turning into his potential. The family friend was saying all kinds of things like “if you leave her allah will grant you someone greater, you need to get over this thing you have, etc” just idk planting seeds constantly having her say but he had given her the space to aswell back then. I have spent a lot of time wondering why her malice hurts more than my ex's betrayal, especially since I was the one in love with him. I’ve realized it’s because I expected to navigate relationship issues with him, but I never expected a complete stranger to have so much hatred over my life, my safety, and my pregnancy. As women, we are often conditioned to expect a baseline of empathy from other women especially when it comes to a pregnancy scare. The fact that she could look at another woman going through a vulnerable medical scare and joke about having my baby and me killed felt purely malicious. It was a level of cruelty I had never encountered in my life. Because my ex gave her a platform to execute that cruelty, she became the face of the unsafety, the hypocrisy, and the hostility that ultimately broke my heart particularly as girls girl.

Because of this experience, I am deeply struggling to trust people from that cultural or religious demographic, particularly women. I find myself experiencing intense anxiety and hypervigilance when I see hijabis/islam or anything related to their cultural background because my brain translates it into an immediate threat of being rejected, mocked, or hated as a Christian outsider. I genuinely could not bear the pain again. I truly hate that I am projecting this trauma, but the experience has left me with a deeply fractured and tainted view.

I know intellectually that the actions of a few toxic, unhealed individuals do not represent an entire faith or culture. But my nervous system feels completely raw right now:

1. From an Islamic perspective, how is behavior like cheating, betraying a partner's privacy, colorism, threatening a pregnant woman, and slandering someone who actively encouraged prayer and good character viewed?
2. For any woman here, could you help me reframe this? I want to feel safe looking at your culture and clothing again without my brain's trauma response screaming that I am in danger.
3. Any words in general or on how to separate the specific malice of these individuals from an entire demographic would mean the world to me and my healing to realise not everyone is like them

Thank you for taking the time to read I genuinely appreciate it

Last year there was an AMA event with Usuli Institute, but Khaled Abou El Fadl himself did not take part in it. It was Grace Song, Cherif Abou El Fadl, and Shayan Parsai who answered the questions. How about arranging another similar AMA with an actual scholar this time, like Dr Khaled Abou El Fadl himself, or Mufti Abu Layth or Dr Shabir Ally?

The MuslimAcademics subreddit managed to bring Dr Yasir Qadhi on an AMA, so can't we invite any scholar here?

i come from indonesia aka the country with the HIGHEST amount of muslims worldwide. most people around me are muslims but literally none behave like the ones i see in english-speaking content. where do these ppl come from ???? you could literally have a normal video of a muslim and the comments would say "music is haram" "accessories is haram" "art is haram" BRO no one thinks like this irl why do these ppl represent islam the most on the internet???? i also saw someone say that muslim women shouldnt wear backpacks as it 'highlights' their shoulders WHAT ARE YOU ONNNN WHERE DO YOU LIVE WHERE THAT ISNT CONSIDERED NORMAL ????? this genuinely bogs my mind because wahabis/salafis make such a small percentage of muslims yet they infiltrate every comment section on the internet with islam related in it I DONT GET IT

for those who reject hadiths
you reject all hadith or the ones that u feel the miss aligned with the quran or what?

cause for me there are some hadiths i do believe in and of the prophets teachings and stories cause i believe there are many beautiful stories we can learn from but i do not believe in every hadith that doesnt make sense on the basis of the quran and my understanding of islam and alot of statements were made out to be hadiths

I’m posting this on a different account because I don’t want anyone to know I’ve made this mistake, I don’t even know where to start, im 16 and I’m going into 11th grade, I grew up in a Muslim family but was never very religious until halfway through 9th grade and I’ve constantly questioned if other religions were right and if I was wrong about Islam but I never stopped believing in it, I always tried to push those thoughts away but those voices telling me that I was wrong would take over my whole entire head, I might have committed shirk, I don’t know if it counts as shirk, but when I tried to pray, my thoughts were still crowded. I never worshiped another god. I never believed another god was up there but sometimes when I bowed down in prayer I accidentally had the image of another god or one of another person in my head, I didn’t want to, I didn’t mean to think those thoughts, I wasn’t praying to them, I was just thinking about them before I started praying and I didn’t know how to get those things out of my head, last year it got so bad I just stopped praying, I havent prayed since ramadan, I didn’t want to risk accidentally committing shirk again. I was starting to feel like a hypocrite, but I still felt Allah I could Still look to the sky and feel that he was up there, I still felt Islam in my heart, but as of recently i started doubting again, I already felt so far from Allah, i got to close to another religion, I was thinking about it too much, it was crowding my head way too much I started doubting Islam and thinking maybe that religion was right, i told myself “no, I know Islam is true“ but I stopped feeling it in my heart, I couldn’t feel Allah at all anymore, it felt like I left Islam completely, but i knew objectively for a fact that Allah was there, I just didn’t feel it. I don’t feel anything anymore, I feel so godless. I tried to make dua‘a last but I was too weak. I wanted to ask him for a sign that he still loved me, that I wasn’t locked out. But I’m scared, I’m terrified. What if he gives me a sign but I mess it up again, and what if he doesn’t? i don’t feel anything right now, I don’t feel anything pulling me back. I feel like my soul has been taken away. I’m just completely emotionless.

4:137 in the Quran says: Indeed, those who believed then disbelieved, then believed and again disbelieved—˹only˺ increasing in disbelief—Allah will neither forgive them nor guide them to the ˹Right˺ Way.

this is why I think god doesn’t want me anymore, i cant make sense of my emotions right now, i want to want to worship god, I want to want to love him, that’s what i felt before, but now it feels like all i want is the feeling back, the feeling islam gave me, and that pains me to think about. I don’t even know if I can call myself Muslim anymore. I don’t want to be a hypocrite, i feel like a hypocrite for even saying bismillah, i don’t know what to do with myself. i Didn’t even ask for forgiveness all those times I accidentally committed shirk, I told myself I would just do it when my thoughts were in order so I didn’t accidentally do it again when asking for forgiveness, it may be too many times to remember and I know you unrepented shirk never gets forgiven. I don’t know what to do with myself.

Please be kind in the comments