u/Human_Read7993

I'm fa but I'm confused about something I've seen a lot in avoidant threads or even online. A lot of people express that avoidants use love bombing in the early stages. I've been confused by this for awhile as I personally don't love bomb as I have too much fear and doubts if I even like the person I'm getting to know (it takes me ages to know if I like someone).

All of the fas and the several das I've met also never love bombed. There was only one time I was love bombed and it was by a narcissist. I'm confused by this concept as all of the experiences and people I've known don't typically love bomb. I only express interest and my feelings after I've had time to get to know someone and it's the same for everyone I've dealt with.

Das in particular seem to take ages to even express their feelings so I'm confused as to why love bombing is associated with avoidant attachers. If anything, I've been on the receiving end of this with anxious attachers who seem to go into limerance. I feel like a lot of people are confusing a lot of narc traits with avoidants as I know they can have crossovers in how they behave even if their intentions are diff.

Do any of you guys love bomb or have you been on the receiving end of love bombing from avoidants?

So I'm an older player and I've recently come back to the game but I've noticed that when I tried to click on a few players I befriended back in 2022 their avatar doesn't show up at all and all I'm able to do is click on their name but I can't see them at all. Am I blocked or did they delete their account?

I'm struggling to get over things fully and I thought coming to a threads of others who have dealt with infedility might be able to help me or provide some insights in how they've healed from theirs.

We weren't exclusive which has weirdly deepened the shame I feel now as I also don't have anything tangible to hold onto. I discovered he was juggling me with other women so I chose to walk as he was hiding it from me and he later admitted during a confrontation he did that because he knew it would hurt me. I came back months later to reconnect as I had been numb from holding in my pain. During that period I confronted him which initially he was receptive too and he was more open. I then pushed further and I detailed everything I discovered and he became dismissive and deflective (he's also avoidant) and he started to fade things so I chose to walk again.

Months later he then started to use the exact wounds I detailed to him subtly in his stories for months but it was specific enough that I would recognize it was about the topic I had discussed. I confronted him about it but he played the forgetful card and played it off and then when I brought it up again he said I was focusing on the past. I expressed how I'm focused on the past because it's changed how I feel in my body now with him in the present and I feel a lot of shame when I'm reminded of my attachment to him or with how he's touching the sore spot I mentioned it brings me shame as it reminds me of how little he had actually invested in me. He then ghosted me. It's been over 1 yr since the original juggling discovery and over 4 months since he ghosted me.

I'm in the dating pool again and there's a new guy I like but I'm struggling with shame still. I hate it because logically I know I'm enough and that I'm worth someone's time but during the confrontation with the last guy, something shifted in my body and I stopped seeing him as someone who likes me but rather like I was the backup (he argued this point but his actions showed I was). I'm not stuck on the past guy but rather the shame that was felt from that experience. It doesn't hurt as badly but I still randomly get hit with this feeling of shame, especially as this new guy and I are getting closer. I'm not sure how to fully let it go and I'm too embarrassed to tell the guy about this wound, in feeling like I'm not worth it for someone. He knows the history of the other guy and I but not this specific part. The closer he and I get, the more I've been feeling shame after our encounters.

Logically I know I'm worth it but my body still struggles knowing it wasn't and I'm still struggling with randomly getting hit with shame. So my question is this.

How do you deal with shame about someone else's choices once you have felt like you weren't worth it to someone or that you were treated differently etc?

I'm struggling to get over things fully and I thought coming to a threads of others who have dealt with infedility might be able to help me or provide some insights in how they've healed from theirs.

We weren't exclusive which has weirdly deepened the shame I feel now as I also don't have anything tangible to hold onto. I discovered he was juggling me with other women so I chose to walk as he was hiding it from me and he later admitted during a confrontation he did that because he knew it would hurt me. I came back months later to reconnect as I had been numb from holding in my pain. During that period I confronted him which initially he was receptive too and he was more open. I then pushed further and I detailed everything I discovered and he became dismissive and deflective (he's also avoidant) and he started to fade things so I chose to walk again.

Months later he then started to use the exact wounds I detailed to him subtly in his stories for months but it was specific enough that I would recognize it was about the topic I had discussed. I confronted him about it but he played the forgetful card and played it off and then when I brought it up again he said I was focusing on the past. I expressed how I'm focused on the past because it's changed how I feel in my body now with him in the present and I feel a lot of shame when I'm reminded of my attachment to him or with how he's touching the sore spot I mentioned it brings me shame as it reminds me of how little he had actually invested in me. He then ghosted me. It's been over 1 yr since the original juggling discovery and over 4 months since he ghosted me.

I'm in the dating pool again and there's a new guy I like but I'm struggling with shame still. I hate it because logically I know I'm enough and that I'm worth someone's time but during the confrontation with the last guy, something shifted in my body and I stopped seeing him as someone who likes me but rather like I was the backup (he argued this point but his actions showed I was). I'm not stuck on the past guy but rather the shame that was felt from that experience. It doesn't hurt as badly but I still randomly get hit with this feeling of shame, especially as this new guy and I are getting closer. I'm not sure how to fully let it go and I'm too embarrassed to tell the guy about this wound, in feeling like I'm not worth it for someone. He knows the history of the other guy and I but not this specific part. The closer he and I get, the more I've been feeling shame after our encounters.

Logically I know I'm worth it but my body still struggles knowing it wasn't and I'm still struggling with randomly getting hit with shame. So my question is this.

How do you deal with shame about someone else's choices once you have felt like you weren't worth it to someone or that you were treated differently etc?

Has anyone else noticed how many afk players there are or how many players start playing and then go afk half way through. I played a game yesterday and my team mate on my side of the map didn't technically go afk they just kept running around the spawn area but wouldn't help out on the map after a few minutes. Initially we were doing great without them but then having one less team mate made a big difference. The punishment isn't enough and they should get time penalities in being able to do pvp matches.

So I'm FA, a recent discovery after walking away from another FA who swung heavily avoidant. I've learned a lot about myself as an avoidant (I initially thought I was anxious) by trying to understand the guy I left but I've also observed a lot on here which I've been super grateful about.

One thing I've noticed is not only the level of hate on here directed at avoidants but some people project the hate and hurt from their exes onto other avoidants on these threads. I've seen threads where people ask for help or advice from avoidants and when it's offered people have gone on the attack and are projecting the hurt or pain from their avoidant ex onto the ones commenting on these threads. Yes I get that some avoidants can do extremely hurtful behaviour but the people on here commenting and trying to offer advice or insights are not your ex. The ones on here have usually worked out that they may be the issue or are seeking advice about their own issue but most of them are on their healing journey. Please don't use your hurt to attack others who are trying to help as they are not your ex.

Yes some avoidants do very hurtful, manipulative or cruel things to their partners, exes or situationships BUT we are not your ex so please don't project your hurt onto the avoidants who are on here trying to help by answering threads where people want advice or insights from avoidants about their situation or ex. Most of the avoidants on these threads are already on their healing journey or are seeking advice for their own situations. So yes, some avoidants can do hurtful behaviour but again we are not your ex.

Some things I've seen:

1. Avoidants are NOT all narcissists. Yes some may utilize some of the behaviours or traits that narcs have but there is a big fundamental difference. Avoidants usually do care which is why they are deactivating as they don't want to get hurt, rejected, losing their freedom or are scared of vulnerability which is why they utilize some of these tools whereas as a narc does it for control or ego and they lack empathy. Avoidants care which is why they deactivate. Some narcs might have avoidant attachment but they might also have an anxious attachment. Not all avoidants are narcs and it's the same that not all anxious are narcs. So saying avoidants are all narcs is untrue.

2. A lot of the time people are asking if the avoidant cared about them. Yes if they got into a relationship or they were with you for some time, most of the time they did especially if they deactivate as it's a trigger when they feel too close to someone. Unless they are narcs most avoidants wouldn't get into a relationship with people if they didn't care or like the person. We also internalize a lot of our feelings as we learned to do that as children. We do feel things we just may not express it openly unless we are healing or healed without us deactivating in some form. In saying that, you might get some avoidants who are extremeley toxic and unhealed who may cheat or monkey branch or juggle multiple people. They may feel like they care in their own way but then character and integrity comes into play for those behaviours not just attachment stems as that behavior stems from selfishness, validation seeking and protecting their needs over their partners.

3. People are projecting hurt and pain from their avoidant ex onto avoidants in these threads who are offering insights even on threads where someone is asking for advice from avoidants. They are not your ex so accusing someone that you don't know onto other avoidants who are answering people's threads for insights or help into understanding their ex or avoidant patterns is unfair to the ones who are trying to help. The avoidants who cause a lot of harm or who are unhealed most likely won't even be on these threads as they are more than likely unaware of their attachment or them being the issue or are unhealed. The ones on here are typically at some point in their healing journey.

I came across this about how replacing the oxytocin gap from your ex and it made sense as I've been finding it easier with my healing journey by investing more time with my dog.

A lot of people mention avoidants offering friendship during or after a discard or breakup. It's a safety tactic for them but if you want to understand the science behind it and how it can impact you check this clip out.

Mine did it when I brought up issues after I caught him juggling and he was pushing it onto me but I declined without accountability as it felt like he was trying to keep hold of me and keep me in his life but reduce any pressure or responsibility on his side but keep full access to me. HELL NA!

Do any of you guys have a lean with you avoidance and how does it show up for you?

I'm still trying to get my head around this especially the ones with a da lean as that's something I don't quite understand. It's hard for me to grasp how they operate and do they revert back to their fa side or do they stay more in the da tactics.. truthfully I don't get it.

Like how does it work for you? I get the anxious side as I've experienced that but not the other side.

There's only been one case where I learn anxious and that was when I was in love and I ended up being the one chasing but all of the other relationships I feel like I'm more neutral about things.

How safe is travelling around Vietnam as a solo female traveller?

Initially, I was planning this trip with friends and they have pulled out and I don't want to stop my plans just because they can't make it but I've also never traveled solo in a country where I can't speak the language. I'm hoping to travel all throughout Vietnam, north down to the south.

Also I've never stayed in hostels before but I'm planning to try it in Vietnam. I'm half Asian so I've encountered some creepy men in the past while travelling but I've been able to navigate around that if I could speak the same language so I'm also cautious about my safety 😅

I would love any tips or anything from other solo female travellers if they have any suggestions or groups of things they used.

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I've come to weird realization as I've gotten older. That if I'm the one to walk or end things I go into terrible cycles of overthinking and questioning my choice and if I did the right thing or if I wronged the person even if it was their painful actions that led me to walk. I weirdly finding that I prefer others to walk or ghost as it means I've done everything I can and it was their choice. Don't get me wrong I'm someone who tries to do all that I can if I feel a connection unless someone did some pretty hurtful actions but even then I go into overthinking even if I'm the one to walk.

I find more relief in someone else ghosting me (it was an fa with a dismissive lean) than me walking. I had walked away from this guy several times after I caught him juggling me as I would usually go away and process and then when I felt like I would need to finally confront him I reconnected with that in mind. Initially he started to fade after the big confrontation and then he was doing a lot of indirects with the exact pain I had expressed during that confrontation. When I confronted him about it he dismissed things mentioned I'm still bringing up the past and then I detailed how the past has affected my body in the present and that my body prefers distance rather than closeness as it doesn't deem him as safe now.

I was expecting a high likelihood of ghosting, initially it sucked as deep down I ofc would love accountability from him BUT I realised that I finally had that sense of freedom where I could actually start moving on. I still go through diff grieving processes but overall I feel so much relief in him having ghosted me as it feels like it's on him now or maybe it's because I achieved my goal for confrontation but I'm not entirely certain but I feel a lot of relief and it's coming up to 2 months since the ghosting.

When I walked in the previous times I kept going into spirals of overthinking hypervigilance and now I can slowly feel myself detaching and slowly caring less.

I'm not really happy with my dermatologist but I'm not sure if it's because of her age (she's retiring soon apparently) or if all derms are like this. Unfortunately she's the only one in my state. The mention of TSW not being caused by steroids occurred in my second appointment with her.

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My first appointment was in person around the end of last year. My skin was so bad as I had no skin barrier around parts of my face and I was so sore and sensitive to everything. She basically wanted me on dupixent but I have so much hesitation around it. The only thing she offered in that appointment was steroid cream or dupixent. I basically came out of it with the same steroid cream I had been given going into it.

That didn't work so I stopped the steroid cream as it wasn't helping as I've been trying it on and off and it never helped at any point in journey with ezcema (I had a bad case of eczema as a kid and then nothing for 16 years until a year or two ago when it came back and worse than before). I switched and tried this pharmacist skin barrier cream and it was a life saver 👌🏻. It took a month and a half but I finally got the majority of my skin barrier back for the first time in around 5 months. It's been a very slow healing journey reintroducing moisturisers and skin care I used to use for most of my life prior to this flare up.

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My second appointment was a phone appointment with my derm. I brought up TSW as she was prescribing an even stronger steroid for my skin. She then scoffed and said I had been googling too much and mentioned that she just went to a recent conference for dermatologists where TSW was discussed and they mentioned that it's not scientifically proven so it's not something that actually is caused by steroid withdrawal.

I'm a bit taken back and I'm not sure about my derm for that and other reasons like her getting frustrated with me when I asked where I should put the steroid cream on around my eyes as I wasn't sure if it was safe to put it under my eys. She was like 'come on now I cant tell you where to put it just wherever there's redness'. In my head in thinking you better damn well tell me as I'm paying you out of pocket and this isn't a cheap meeting 😐

I have Asian skin so I have some darkening of the skin around my eyes from a past flare up and me constantly rubbing around that region and she mentioned that it's hard to see the redness because of my skin tone but basically I have to put it on my forehead, side of my eyes and under my eyes but the only actually red spot and thickening of my skin is under my nose and above my mouth.

So I have to use the steroid that's stronger than advantan fatty ointment for a single week and then drop back down to the one my GP had me use for flare ups which was the 1% steroid (so much weaker than the advantan and weirdly I saw more results on it 🤷🏻‍♀️). She tried to tell me to go on the advantan and even forgot I had been on it leading into my first appointment.. but I've told her I've been using it for most of my life at diff stages and it's never worked so now she's putting me on a stronger one for a short period of time as I told her I don't want to use the advantan.

My next appointment is for an in person appointment.

So I’m FA, but the guy I dealt with seemed FA with a strong DA lean. Something that confuses me is that he once admitted he hurts people who hurt him as a way to reflect their behaviour back to them. I don’t relate to that at all, so I’m wondering if this is a common avoidant pattern or something else entirely as this is the first time I've ever come across anyone with his behaviour.

Also I do feel a lot of shame after this dynamic so if anyone has any tips or advice related to how to overcome it I would appreciate it 🙏🏻

This is long, but the context matters.

Also pls be kind with this as a lot of the things I discovered happen after the events occurred when I was left alone trying to understand what was going on. It was only then that I discovered the juggling and the depth of everything. I also carry quite a bit of shame about how I feel about myself after all of this now which I also hate and weirdly also feel ashamed about 😅

This guy and I had met in person but we lived in diff states. He asked for my insta and that's how everything began. 4 months into messaging and talking I brought up how I was going to be in his city in a few months and a month later he invited me to travel overseas with him for the following month, it was too late notice and I couldn’t make it. He made his month long trip appear completely solo and I later discovered that at some point during that trip another woman saw he was in another country near hers and reached out and she later joined him on the last few days of his trip. They had met only once while he was travelling but nothing came from it aside from them following each other on their socials but he also followed a lot of other women from that country during the same trip and she didn't seem to be anyone he was keeping warm. About half way firing his trip I sensed a shift in his energy which became extremely noticeable toward the end of it. When I tried to address it, he deflected again. I stepped back to understand what was going on as I could sense that I wasn't the only one in the picture and I also wanted to focus on a major work event.

I chose not to meet up with him or arrange anything when I was in his city during this period as well as it was during this time I discovered the following:

1. There was another woman in the picture.

2. She had flown to join him at the end of his trip

3. After he had omitted her in his social media post about the girls and made it look solos he reacted with all of this heart break content.

4. On his way home he made a detour to her home country for a single night hook up before he flew back to his country.

During the month when I stepped back he ended things with the woman that had flown to join him on his trip. When I returned after the month he shortly after fully discarded the woman and unfollowed her. She caused her to spiral with posting heartbreak content and then longing content, which made me think he ended things to make space for me coming back, but he never explained anything directly.

Around this period, I expressed hurt about not feeling chosen first after discovering the juggling and secrecy. He deflected again, so I ghosted him because I was exhausted by the dismissiveness and dishonesty and I was feeling really hurt after seeing how much he had invested in that woman after he declined an invite I gave him to see soemthign together when I was in his city based on cost. Only weeks later, he publicly showcased another woman. When I reached out wanting honesty he deflected and he tried to keep me emotionally hooked while downplaying or hiding that he was still seeing her. Once I realised he was juggling me again, I cut him off and unfollowed him. Days later, that girl he had publicly shown unfollowed him too, and their public relationship ended shortly after. I then disappeared for four months.

After those four months, I reconnected to see if anything had changed and I asked for him to meet me halfway with honesty which took him days to respond too. After he agreed but shortly after I caught him going out on a date with someone else and I finally pushed for full honesty and he instead pushed to visit me and he deflect my ask by pushing to see me. This led me to finally confront him about everything that had happened. All of the unfairness, the juggling, and the imbalance in investment, he never directly addressed the behaviour itself. Instead, he spoke vaguely about our differences, how we were raised, and offered me “real friendship,” which I declined because there was still no accountability and I made that the requirement for me to even consider his offer.

One of the biggest things I confronted him about was investment. From my perspective, he seemed willing to invest time, money, and effort into other women while giving me excuses. This hurt especially because the overseas trip he originally invited me to was where all the secrecy and juggling started.

A specific example with the woman who joined him on his trip: I invited him to an event when I was going to be in his city and he declined because of the cost of an $80 ticket. Later, I discovered that around the same time I had invited him to this event, he had just flown to Thailand for a single night to see the same girl from the overseas trip before flying home. I only discovered all of this later on but when I learned about this it was the moment everything clicked for me. It wasn’t just the juggling that hurt, it was realising that money and effort clearly weren’t the issue. He was simply prioritising someone else and when I invited him to something he not only declined on cost he was so preoccupied in placating this woman after he had seen her react with heart break after he had omitting her from his post that he was too busy with her wouldn't even consider offering me something free as an alternative yet he had not only spent soo much more to fly to see her for a single night but he arranged all of it.

What made it slightly disturbing was that during the original overseas trip, he had asked me to help him write the Instagram post about it which was the post that he omitted her in. It felt so weird that he pushed for me to help him with that post as soon she had left him and that he was trying to pull me close after he had just spent 3 nights with someone else. After I confronted him about all of this it was the first time he had directly lied and it was about knowing that woman who joined him on his trip, he slowly faded conversations again and used the excuse that he “wouldn’t really be on social media much anymore.” I walked away after that as it made me realise his capacity.

What really affected me afterward was that months later, he suddenly started posting prices on all his Instagram stories something he had never done before. The reason this mattered is because “investment and price” as well as perceived effort toward others versus me had been one of the main things I told him hurt me. It felt like he took the exact thing that caused me pain and indirectly displayed it publicly after knowing how much it affected me and he plastered price on eveyrhting.

When I confronted him about that too, he dismissed it, said he “forgot,” and accused me of bringing up the past. Eventually I admitted how much shame and emotional damage this dynamic had caused me and that distance felt safer for me than closeness as closeness with him now gives me anxiety. For th first time ever he ghosted me after that but days later he hinted on his socials of treating/investing in soemone which annoyed me even more as I had just expressed only days prior how much shame I felt from all of this and seeing how he valued me compared to others. I unfollowed him after that and then I asked him if it was intentional what he was doing but he ghsoted me once again. I walked after and it's been a month since then.

What messed with me most was the pattern: whenever I pulled away after being hurt, he often seemed to publicly display the exact behaviour that had hurt me, usually involving another woman. The first major example was publicly showcasing another woman only weeks after I had expressed hurt about not feeling chosen first. And then again investing in someone else after I had just expressed how that hurt me only days prior.

At some point it stopped feeling accidental and started feeling intentional, or at least emotionally retaliatory. That’s what I can’t understand. He once mentioned during the period when I had confronted him about eveyhrign that he hurts people who hurt him and he holds up a mirror to reflect their actions back to them. Ofc he was indirect so I wasn't sure if he was referring to how he reacted to me or other past behavior.

Can avoidants actually become this reactive and indirect when confronted, or is this something else entirely? Because from my perspective, it felt emotionally cruel.