u/Icaros5

For a while, IM was like 15 extra points on the sorcerer/exalted sorc., but with the current state the difference is now just 5 points. With his S6 vs S5 for the sorcerer he's also dealing more damage on average than a sorcerer against any type of target (even when sorcerer gets full hit rerolls to fish for those Sustained 3). Of course Sorcerer will have the slight edge when he activates the ability. Exalted gets the edge with his blast, but falls short otherwise

We're also at a point where the Winged Daemon Prince has become much weaker with the T5 upgrade (he basically got -1 to W, which makes his reroll ability even weaker as well). This means the only good alternative for Eldritch Vortex is the IM. In summary:

Infernal Mater

• 5 points more expensive
• Better damage overall (with hazardous "risk")
• Better overwatch
• Best unit for the Eldritch Vortex, making him a beast
• Slightly more survivability with his automatic 6 on a Sv

Sorcerer

• 5 points cheaper
• Gets a nice go turn which deals massive damage, specially with Hit rerolls

Exalted Sorcerer

• 5 points cheaper
• 4++ and resurrect rubrics (niche in squads of 5)
• Better damage than Sorc and IM if he can have Blast, but wrose than IM otherwise
• Can take Incadaeum which is usually good

So, with just 5 points in difference do you think IM is a much better option to lead rubrics now? Maybe Exalted Sorcerer, with his 4++, Blast weapon and the ability to take Incandaeum?

I'm going to be playing a league with some friends and wanted to get some feedback on my Thousand Sons list. I'll be running Grand Coven (list at the end).

My opponents will be:

• Emperor's Children, with Coterie
• Orks with Green Tide
• Leagues of Votann with Needgard Oathband + Hearthguard Covenant
• Black Templars with Bastion Task Force
• Imperial Knights, with Atrapos, Lancer, Castellan, Valiant + 2 Warglaives (detachment unknown)
• Adepta Sororitas
• Tyranids

I'm expecting quite a lot of melee pressure, especially from the Emperor's Children, Orks and Black Templars, so I'm trying to make sure I have enough tools to contest the centre without sacrificing too much of my damage output. Here is what I'm considering:

1. Adding Chaos Spawn

Seen a lot of people running them, and they seem significantly tankier than Sekhetar or Tzaangor Enlightened and could be useful for sitting on the centre objective and scoring points. This seems particularly relevant because most of Priority Asset's matchups require me to do actions in the centre objective. They could be swapped for one of the Sekhetar for example.

2. Adding a Mutalith Vortex Beast

It's fairly tanky, can sit on the centre objective as well, and could also be useful for screening/blocking charges. I'm particularly interested in this against EC, Orks and Black Templars, where getting charged can end the game instantly.

The problem is that adding the Mutalith would require some fairly significant cuts:

• Drop one Rubric blob + Sorcerer, leaving me with 2 instead of 3.
• Drop the Daemon Prince and have the Infernal Master use the Vortex enhancement.
• Alternatively, remove both Sekhetar units.

I'm not particularly convinced about dropping the Daemon Prince. It seems to benefit a lot from Grand Coven, especially from the Kindred Sorcery buffs and Destined by Fate stratagem, while also being able to cast its own spells. I'm not sure the Mutalith gets quite as much value from the detachment, and it's high damage attack is such a casino.

As for the Sekhetar, I'd be okay with dropping one, but I feel like running at least one unit is valuable for the Infiltrators. They can block my opponent from deploying onto the centre or, at the very least, prevent them from starting on my expansion objective.

3. Swapping the Sorcerers for Exalted Sorcerers

The sorcerers do provide some additional damage, and the Lethal Hits is Nice, but the 4 Invuln. is pretty good against Imperial Knights, and there are some times where my rubrics get charged so quickly I don't even have time to use the Sorcerer's ability.

4. Are two tzangors enough?

Would you add some additional chaff? Especially for the PA vs PA matchup, a lot of chaff is required to be constantly doing the Sabotage action.

So, what do you guys think?

I'd especially like to hear from people who have actually played Thousand Sons in 11th:

• What units have you found to be surprisingly good?
• Is the Mutalith worth fitting into Grand Coven?
• Are Chaos Spawn worth taking over the second Sekhetar?
• How important have you found Sekhetar to be, especially after the points increase?
• What would you change about this list given the matchups I'm expecting?

My current list is as follows:

DP Thousand Sons [2000 points]

Thousand Sons

Battle Size: Strike Force (2000 point limit)

Detachments: Grand Coven (3/3 Detachment Points)

Force Disposition: Priority Assets

Epic Hero

Magnus The Red (455 points)

• Warlord

• Blade of magnus, Gaze of magnus and Tzeentch’s firestorm

Rubric Chapter

Infernal Master (95 points)

• Fires of the abyss, Force weapon and Inferno bolt pistol

Rubric Marines (100 points)

• 1 Aspiring Sorcerer with Force weapon, Malefic curse and Warpflame pistol

• 2 Rubric Marine with Close combat weapon and Warpflamer

• 1 Rubric Marine with Close combat weapon, Icon of flame and Warpflamer

• 1 Rubric Marine with Close combat weapon and Soulreaper cannon

Rubric Chapter

Rubric Marines (100 points)

• 1 Aspiring Sorcerer with Force weapon, Malefic curse and Warpflame pistol

• 1 Rubric Marine with Close combat weapon and Soulreaper cannon

• 2 Rubric Marine with Close combat weapon and Warpflamer

• 1 Rubric Marine with Close combat weapon, Icon of flame and Warpflamer

Sorcerer (85 points)

• Force weapon, Inferno bolt pistol, Pandaemonic delusion and Prosperine khopesh

Rubric Chapter

Rubric Marines (100 points)

• 1 Aspiring Sorcerer with Force weapon, Malefic curse and Warpflame pistol

• 1 Rubric Marine with Close combat weapon and Soulreaper cannon

• 2 Rubric Marine with Close combat weapon and Warpflamer

• 1 Rubric Marine with Close combat weapon, Icon of flame and Warpflamer

Sorcerer (85 points)

• Force weapon, Inferno bolt pistol, Pandaemonic delusion and Prosperine khopesh

Terminators

Scarab Occult Terminators (385 points)

• 1 Scarab Occult Sorcerer with Force weapon, Inferno combi-bolter and Malefic curse

• 5 Scarab Occult Terminator with Inferno combi-bolter and Prosperine khopesh

• 2 Scarab Occult Terminator with Hellfyre missile rack, Inferno combi-bolter and Prosperine khopesh

• 2 Scarab Occult Terminator with Prosperine khopesh and Soulreaper cannon

Sorcerer In Terminator Armour (115 points)

• Force weapon, Gaze of hate and Inferno combi-bolter

• Umbralefic Crystal [+20 points]

Character

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch With Wings (205 points)

• Dark blessing, Hellforged weapons and Infernal cannon

• Eldritch Vortex of E’taph [+35 points]

Vehicle

Sekhetar Robots (85 points)

• 1 Sekhetar Robots with Close combat weapon, Heavy warpflamer, Hellfire missile rack and Pyreflux meltagun

• 1 Sekhetar Robots with Close combat weapon, Heavy warpflamer, Hellfire missile rack and Pyreflux meltagun

Sekhetar Robots (85 points)

• 1 Sekhetar Robots with Close combat weapon, Heavy warpflamer, Hellfire missile rack and Pyreflux meltagun

• 1 Sekhetar Robots with Close combat weapon, Heavy warpflamer, Hellfire missile rack and Pyreflux meltagun

Mounted

Tzaangor Enlightened (50 points)

• 1 Aviarch with divining spear

• 1 Enlightened with divining spear

• 1 Enlightened with divining spear

Tzaangor Enlightened With Fatecaster Greatbows (55 points)

• 1 Aviarch with Close combat weapon and Fatecaster greatbow

• 2 Enlightened with Close combat weapon and Fatecaster greatbow