u/Important-Stage-1005

The shrivel will be increased by

1. backfire shrivel from the lawsuit that is already failing miserably

2. as shrivel is exposed further, the corp will soon have to stop calling 110 year olds "members"

3. The ridiculous 17 million claim of members will soon become totally unsupportable. Shrivel of available dishonest tactics

4. TBMs will get more aggressive with their persecution complex. They are already extremely aggressive because of shrivel.

5. HOW will the church desperately back out of the lawsuit to slow the shrivel? They will falsely claim "objectives met."

6. Oaks himself is personally shriveled and not remotely in charge. I doubt he knows how badly the lawsuit has backfired. Those who ARE in charge are deeply damaging the church as we speak

1. The corporation has already lost its cringy and wildly inappropriate slapp suit against John Dehlin in the court of public opinion and it's not even close. Only the dumbest corporate suck up TBMs try to defend suing someone for nebulous reasons in the name of Jesus. The "church" has only begun to lose in the court of public opinion on this. The loss will compound and the scumbag pos lawyers the corporation hires in quasi religious delusions will begin begging top leaders to exit this, after they've milked it for another year.

2. In the next decade the corporation will have to quietly abandon the glaringly phony 17 (soon to be 18) million alleged member game. I don't believe that the bubble boys at the top even see this coming. They lie to themselves 24/7.

3. The corporation will have to abandon the ridiculous practice of keeping dead people on the rolls until they're 110, but not until they sense that most members have abandoned the 17 million member delusion in about 5 years.

4. The persecution complex will get even more intense and DELIBERATE as a tool of keeping the remaining ones in the "church." The corp will soon REALLY lean in to the persecution complex with more "we're persecuted cuz last days" jargon, as a replacement for things to grandstand about such as the probably phony 350k converts claim and the temporary "most missionaries EVAR" claim.

5. All TBMs have left is childish rage at anyone who points out what a pathologically dishonest corporation they're a part of, and this will accelerate the shrivel ESPECIALLY after the "church" officially loses it's slapp suit against Dehlin (church spin-masters will publish numerous articles ahead of the official loss, claiming they "obtained their objectives").

6. The current tactic is full blown fabrication of certain membership statistics (esp the bogus 17 million claim that literally nobody but delusional tbms buy into) and grandstanding on things such as "most missionaries EVAR!" but we're seeing the final throes of this desperate tactic. The "church" in about 5 years will go silent on things it used to grandstand about. I don't believe the 350k converts claim for a second. Top mormon leaders are in a bubble of lying for the lard and they rationalize it to themselves by "only" lying once in a while. They're running out of things to lie about. The "church" is in freefall and deck chairs have already been arranged as many times as possible.

7. Oaks is not running anything, is not remotely mentally competent, and will be gone in under 5 years (somebody polymarket this). I'm starting to notice a mormon death of geriatric leader (MDOGL) 3 stage timeline and oaks is already at stage 3, the babbling at assistants stage where they have no effective control over the organization. I have observed an average of about 5 years in stage 3 before death. There is an entire system that has grown up, out of mostly opportunism and partially necessity, to essentially replace these geriatric babblers who are always president, who don't have a clue what's going on. Oaks has no idea how badly his lawsuit has backfired. The yes men control them easily in stage 3. I predict that the window for oaks to most likely pass will start in about 2 years.

The mormon "church" corporation has reached the end point.

It's over.

Drastic change would be required to undo the shrivel where the church can't hold on to its own members in any reliable way anymore, because there's no core community anymore. No real sense of belonging or community support.

All human systems degenerate to the self destruction stage, whether it's 4 boys and a tree house and they start kicking people out after an hour, or a church that took many years to reach the point of maximum efficiency.

All human systems forcibly remove people and the lds church has always removed people, but there's a statistical curve where an organization degenerates to symbolic entry and extremely efficient permanent removal. This statistical curve speeds up towards the end. The mormon church has always maintained that "there's always a way back" but that is no longer true thanks to use of their lawyers to perma ban people, so the church is at the end of this predictable curve where self destruction is always the end.

The church is not merely shriveling, it is at war with itself, ironically, like the Jaredites. You can't see it but there's two sides too. Leadership vs the members. Obviously mormons scream about how wonderful their leaders supposedly are, and the stockholm syndrome is strong with them. Deep down they know their leaders can turn on them instantly, over anything. It's not as visible as two separate armies but there are signs:

1. Extreme leader roulette where there's actually no way back anymore
2. Any issue can trigger leaders into making you into an enemy
3. Gossip and hearsay take precedence over facts
4. An extreme inequality between leaders and members
5. Leaders are handed weaponization tools such as secret phone numbers and lawyers for internal "security"
6. A QUIET EXODUS OF THE WEALTHY AND CONNECTED TO THE HIGHER LEVELS OF LEADERSHIP (zillions of quorums of the "seventy," endless unnecessary temples, and endless unnecessary new missions to reward rich guys who paid 40k in tithing a year)

Is this an attempt by the church to normalize the collapse? It's not available at deseret crook. I can't prove he's an agent of the church but I suspect he is, and the goal is to soften the landing. I suspect that eventually it will be available at deseret boof.

Why do this? Obviously the blind and clueless top leaders of the church have been seeing really bad and WORSENING numbers for decades, and even they know they can't keep lying forever, and they're too stupid/arrogant/money hungry/power hungry to right the ship. I also suspect that the very hard to believe 300k convert baptisms number this year is just made up and they know they can't keep doing that. Nobody believes the 17+ million number and they know it.

I deeply suspect that this Jeff Strong guy is not just a random dude writing a book. I suspect he has been given partial access to the real numbers, to write a soft admission book, which is what this is.

Top leaders are trying to stave off the upcoming tsunami of "WE TOLD YOU SO" by taking partial control of the "shrivel narrative" NOW. This book will trickle to TBMs who aren't even the target audience. I believe the target audience is the memory of the internet. TBMs will blather about "sifting" or "wheat and tares" no matter what the numbers are. The church corporation has created a super low IQ membership so they're not the target audience, which is why it's not at deseret barf.

This is inoculation of the wider memory of the public. This is moving beyond mere essays that they hide from members.

That's essentially what the secretive mod here told me. I have a long list of updates to an extremely abusive situation committed by the church, but when I put in effort to explain those updates, it gets labeled falsely as "spam" and removed. Sorry, talk to the mods and get them to change their absurd application of a vague and subjective rule. Poorly run subs/communities punish honest discussion.

Oaks is only doing this for personal revenge against John Dehlin. And because Oaks has a big army of lawyers and unlimited funds to waste. He thinks he's invincible and just likes being a bully.

I'm seeking for whatever the apologetics are for this lawsuit. I don't believe there are any apologetics from a gospel perspective.

The church's statement did not reference the gospel, let alone any scriptures.

Objectively, the church has to be quietly looking for a way out of the most "streisand effect" lawsuit in history. United healthcare suing Luigi would not produce this much backfire.

1. The church, in suing John Dehlin has only given incalculable free publicity to John Dehlin, which has only come back to bite the church in the Gs.

2. The suit has literally unified opposition to the church in a way not seen since genius ordered the printing press destroyed.

3. They literally thought it was a good idea to sue a guy who has a big platform to ask for legal donations, which are pouring in. Such a great plan.

4. The church signed up for a PR nightmare that has totally overwhelmed their online games of buying bot posters, bot accounts, upvote farms, search engine ordering, bot style ads that ironically mislead people into not realizing they're clicking on a MORMON paid ad etc.

5. The church did all this in an environment when public sentiment towards corporate churches is at an all time low. Sentiment towards corporations and institutions is at an all time low. In a way that made the church look like a law firm that plays church. Made the church look like scientology.

ANSWER: the best strategic move for the church AT THIS POINT, is to offer 20-50k to John Dehlin to sign a non disclosure agreement agreeing not to talk about receiving money to not talk about receiving money, to only say that he and the church "came to an agreement" that allows the church to drop this utterly idiotic harry carey lawsuit and move back to just playing church instead of playing big skanky law firm that plays church.

I'd bet that in under a year they drop it.

Who is Oaks even playing to here with this hyper technical weak lawsuit that has already backfired and streisand effected?

Himself and his lawyer industrial complex. This amounts to lawyer-sterbation.

Laughably, this miscalculation leaves TBMs out in the cold without any way to publicly defend his majesty. They're not part of Oaks' little gaggle of imbecile yes-men lawyers who handed him cialis and got under his desk to fellatio-convince him this was a good idea.

Ratio'd is no longer the term for massive miscalculation getting you owned on your own platforms, it's now called pulling a dallin. Or dallin'ing oneself.

TBMs are utterly desperate to defend the church from the biggest corporate mistake since new coke or the new cracker barrel logo. These kind of corporate mistakes have three stages:

Stage 1: the confident exposure (let's get ahead of the narrative by publishing a news story in ksl and deserted news) publicly helicoptering the proverbial flaccid penis

Stage 2: the quiet realization of the mega fuck up <--- dildo dallins and his not so merry men are HERE

Stage 3: denial evasion stage combined with quiet reversal and trying to move on while peeling out tires (usually takes about a month to get here while CEOs let yes men line up to give them oral that doesn't criticize the ceo but gives sloppy drippy garbled strategic advice in corporate-speak about "brand integrity" and "it had to be done sir so we could strategically move forward."